Osbourne says no to currency union.

Euro or Ding Dong, remember 🙂

piemonster – Member
jesus **** wept

I genuinely don’t particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.Think I leaned about 150 pages ago, that the only thing this thread is worthwhile for is having a laugh, yer men ninfan and teamhurtmore will seriously engage with any amount nonsense! 😆

A nuclear sub is a high value item so there’s a lot of money sitting right there. Of course, a brandnew aircraft carrier could be worth a few bob too. These are things we don’t want in Scotland so what’s the best way to get rid of them when you need a few bob.

Or are we supposed to hand those over to you even though you won’t share the UK govt assets?

This has just got even sillier. That’s not “extreme” it’s just nonsense.

I would also challenge you on the “things we don’t want in Scotland”, the nuclear subs may split opinion but SCotland was desperate to get to a lot of the building work for the 2 carriers. The people working on them were more than happy to have them in Scotland.

gobuchul – Member
This has just got even sillier. That’s not “extreme” it’s just nonsense.

I would also challenge you on the “things we don’t want in Scotland”, the nuclear subs may split opinion but SCotland was desperate to get to a lot of the building work for the 2 carriers. The people working on them were more than happy to have them in Scotland.

Exactly the point I was making, just the counterbalancing side of it. 🙂

Of course we were happy to build you aircraft carriers, and still will be. We just don’t need them, so if we end up with them, they’ll be on the market.

For Sale: Two state of the art aircraft carriers. Aircraft not included 😀

Things I have learned today:

– “Giraffe Bread” is a thing.

– Better Together think we’ll care what the inventor of such bread thinks about Scottish independence.

jesus **** wept

I genuinely don’t particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.
Please dont there are precious few voices of sense on this “debate” as each side seems to outdo the other in terms of hyperbole and hypocrisy.
Dont let the gibberish grind you down, hard though it is. Its clearly tabloid trash talk day today

You don’t have to rely on making things up or flip-flopping with the wind.

Why do you do it then? If only your confidence was actually matched by reality – remember the false democracy claims you made re england and election results? where they were both the same [ demonstrably untrue ] and worse – again clearly untrue]. Even you realised as you failed to even try and defend it as accurate , it was nowt but fluff and spin.
I could be here all day listing the BS claims you made that were false

My personal favourite was you asking ducks to not play the man like the DO – as that label is not playing the man.

Your rep talks and behaves like a kid

You are still an example to us all in the temperate and moderate use of language and grown up debate – no cheeky disparaging acronyms from you eh 🙄

Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won’t be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

Any, saw another table and aside from National Pride and “role in the world” the respondants thought Scotland would be worse off in most things, economy, personal finances, tax and banking/deposit protection

Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won’t be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

The Westminster government really hasn’t thought through this problem. After a Yes vote, there will be a general election half way through the negotiating period. There might well be a Labour government, elected with the help of Scottish Labour MPs – who will then be on the rUK side of negotiations. Then what happens at independence in March 2016? There may well have to be another general election for the rUK.

There will be some SNP MPs as well, of course, who are working as hard as they can to get themselves out of a job.

jambalaya – Member
Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won’t be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

you’d think it would since the 2015 result would be skewed by a few million votes.

Saying that suppose they could just do a re-count in parliament, minus scottish MPs? But I’d think that unlikely.

@ben – I think the Westminster parties will have given plenty of thought to this. The referendum result will be known long before an election so there is time for new legislation to negate the need for a second election. For example they could pass legislation to say post iS completion those MPs just lose their vote/seat. I don’t see it being anyone’s interest having a second election, if the Tories win they won’t want the risk of a second election and if the Labour party wins they won;t want a second election without the seats north of the border. As the iS process could fail I don’t think Scottish MPs could be excluded in a May 2015 general election.

Saw something today

Thanks for the link 😕

indeed worse case scenario is a lab govt that only exist due to scottish MPs and at the moment of independence it looses its majority. That is no mandate to act for rUK – though I am sure THM and others will be along shortly to tell me how fair, representative and democratic this is 😉

bencooper – Member

For Sale: Two state of the art aircraft carriers.May require some home assembly Aircraft not included

FTFY Ben

seosamh77 – Member
Think I leaned about 150 pages ago, that the only thing this thread is worthwhile for is having a laugh…

Exactly. Other forums for the informed stuff where at least people get what a currency is, how monetary and fiscal policy work and what don’t ask don’t tell, actually mean 😉

yer men ninfan and teamhurtmore will seriously engage with any amount nonsense!

Exactly again. We do have to put up with a lot is yS nonsense. Nothing else sadly. But as you say, good for a lengthy laugh.

jesus **** wept
I genuinely don’t particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.

you should see the yes rubbish that is going around facebook up here! Not doing favours to swing the undecided voters like me.

If ninfan is your ally THM then you really are in the shit. His last profile,pre ban, explained that he rarely agreed with the stuff he spouted. the account then got banned for trolling and he created this new one…OH the irony 😆
I agree about the humour though that was priceless. 😀

As for other forums do they cry troll when the facts are counter to reality/their view or do they just ignore criticism and pretend it is not happening?

So the democracy issue “confident” enough to engage armed with the facts then….though not.

Any issue that gets people emotional will end up with a fair amount of gibberish and nonsense being spouted. You can decide to ignore and rise above it , join in , or criticise the other side ONLY whilst making up your own little acronyms for those you dislike. I forget which is the most credible approach but both sides have their nutters.

bigjim – Member
…you should see the yes rubbish that is going around facebook up here! Not doing favours to swing the undecided voters like me.

Visit a foodbank, then make your decision either way.

Visit a foodbank, then make your decision either way

If that’s the priority, then I’d have thought the economic prospects for the country were paramount in decision making as to redistribute wealth you must first have it.

The economic case is muddled and ill thought through. Unlikely to deliver the outcome you seek, which is why I’ve been No since the white paper was published.

You can have less money and still have less absolute poverty. It depends on how you distribute it not just how much you have.

Its not JUST about maximum money as we are not all the children of thatcher or think that the GDP of UK PLC [ I mean who uses such terms] is the main goal in life. It simportant but other things matter as well and everyone knows there is more to life than money [ except for some who are unfortunately very very poor]

IMHO very few will vote just due to economic matters. the uncertainty makes it the strong card for project fear hence they just repeat it ad infinitum and [generally]dont engage on the other points,

If that’s the priority, then I’d have thought the economic prospects for the country were paramount in decision making as to redistribute wealth you must first have it.

Well that, and having a Government that actually wants to fix the problem and doesn’t see punishing the poor as an easy way to win vote and an idealogical win.

You can have less money and still have less absolute poverty. It depends on how you distribute it not just how much you have.

Indeed. And the less you have to achieve that end the more you need to hit the rich. They’re not likely to take that without migrating or rearranging their affairs, so you have to put more of the burden on the comfortably off. Who, of course, are going to vote for that year after year.

(junky, see PM’s)

I’m glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

theres a reason why I changed from the Z-11

Hmmm. Ninfan. Nin. Fan. Nine Inch Nails? You are Trent Reznor’s stalker?

actually you’re wrong on that, theres a reason why I changed from Z-11 and its got nothing whatsoever to do with that

Thanks for not denying you dont mean what you say 😉

I would ask but it not like you will say or it would be believed anyway…the boy who cried wolf eh

They’re not likely to take that without migrating or rearranging their affairs, so you have to put more of the burden on the comfortably off.

Are you having a laff?
I can live with that if it means the ending of food banks for the very poor and the very vulnerable
You?

ninfan – Member
I’m glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

A bit like the UK govt’s bank which is located in England?

Are you having a laff?
I can live with that if it means the ending of food banks for the very poor and the very vulnerable
You?

No, not having a laugh. The burden won’t just fall on the top 10% of earners and I can’t see the next 20-30% offering to take it.

FWIW, Ben stated a while back that most people he knew were voting Yes and would happily take the hit if it meant a more equitable society. I’m the same as are my family, and we’re all very average in terms of the amount of money we earn.

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.
And holding the UKs nuclear weapons to ransom would make, make Alex salmond, blofeld, and would he want “$1,000,000”.

I don’t think this is the thread for intelligent conversation, but

1) is anyone considering moving savings to English banks? Been considering this and noticed the scotsman covered it the other day http://www.scotsman.com/news/how-likely-would-run-on-banks-be-after-yes-vote-1-3511906

2) is now a stupid time to consider buying a house in Scotland?

3)How long would it be between referendum and independence in the event of a Yes vote?

If everyone moved there money into English banks would that not cause trouble.

Do you expect property prices to fall after the referendum if the yes vote goes through or indeed the no vote.

Someone else said 18 months was the target but did not think it achievable, if you google it there is an exact date penciled in for Independence Day.

No, not having a laugh.

Reference to laffer curve hence spelling

I can’t see the next 20-30% offering to take it.

Scotland are less Tory than england so who knows. I personally believe even the comfortably off are willing to pay a little more tax to stop their fellow citizens starving. It really depends on what it is going on and why rather than just being anti tax
Many would pay a little more for a fairer world Amusingly the richer you are the more selfish you are…who would have thunk it eh.

I would quite like property prices to fall. Higher IR and uncertainty would help, so prospects might be promising. Stick higher taxes on that (in general and to compensate for lower corporate tax) and the timing could be perfect!

Higher inequality is a global trend that crosses governments and political systems. Good to know that in addition to every other fairy story, the DO can unilaterally solve that one. Is that what threatening the stability of the financial sector is all about?!? I get it know! A masterstroke…….

Bigjim, surely no one is suggesting a systems without a lender of last resort, that would be madness. Oh wait a minute….

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.

There’s nothing to go “tits up” about. If Scotland wants to separate itself from the rest of the UK it is perfectly feasible for it to do so – why wouldn’t it be ?

If what you mean is would the Scots be able to reverse their decision should the disadvantages of separation become apparent to them, then there is no chance at all of that imo. It will all be settled once and for all on 18 Sept, that’s the whole point of the referendum.

And btw remember that if YS do win the vote next month that it is extremely unlikely that it will be by a huge overwhelming majority, so for that reason if separation proves to have a great deal of negative consequences there will also be a great deal of angry Scots.

Expressing that anger won’t create an issue of having to “live it down”, why should anyone not express their dissatisfaction with something that they have never supported ? It might be futile but other than that I can’t see a problem.

I personally believe even the comfortably off are willing to pay a little more tax to stop their fellow citizens starving

OK, so anecdote =/= evidence, but anyone I’ve discussed the issue with recently is of the mindset that government takes quite enough thank you very much and ought to waste a bit less rather than come back and ask for more.

The other public sector contracting thread going on at the moment perhaps illustrates a little of that. Certainly my time as a public sector FD and then negotiating contracts with public sector customers leads me to the conclusion that removal of waste and inefficiency could fund several major omissions from current government policy.

There is more to helping the poor than just taxing the wealthy more. It’s about spending what you take in more sensibly. Happy for both to happen to create a more equal society. Also happy for those who wouldn’t be happy doing this to piss off elsewhere using the dual nationality thing.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes – not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

Just a thought, if the Yes vote is 50.1% is that a huge win for Independence but if the No gets 50.1% is that so close we need another vote next month?

There won’t be another vote next month no, that would be silly, but a no vote would not be the end of the independence movement.

I suspect if the vote was that close then no doubt someone would mount a legal challenge for a recount/re-vote either way.

Independence will happen eventually, I would prefer it to happen this opportunity though as I may not be around come the next one.

if we don’t get currency union, we’ll default on our debt,
if we don’t get EU citizenship, we’ll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don’t get EU membership, we’ll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters

I don’t think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don’t get currency union – more that if we don’t get our share of the assets we’ll obviously not be taking a share of the liabilities – tell me how that would not be a fair stance to take.

If we don’t get EU citizenship and are no longer part of the EU, then people who are here on the basis that they are EU citizens would no longer be residing in the EU, so they would need to find another mechanism to stay here.

I dont think anyone ever said that we would stop EU fishing boats from passing through international waters, we might stop them fishing in Scottish waters which would no longer be part of the EU though – tell me how that would be unfair.

Your comment was daft and ill thought out.

I don’t think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don’t get currency union

The Scotsman thinks so

So does then DO more importantly but then again poor guy still confuses currencies and assets. Good job its not important. The Dep of Econ at scotlands finest Uni must be having kittens at how much he has forgotten