Six weeks ago I broke my pelvis crashing my downhill bike. As a consequence I am selling my 224 and Sub Zero and if I fully repair I was thinking of replacing them with a Blood. Always liked the look and the super low bottom bracket and slack angles appeal greatly.
Bottlerocket has been around for ages in the States but all of a sudden seems everywhere here. Perhaps because Transition are now in fashion with their admittedly lovely TR 450 amongst others. But which is better if there is much of a difference, Blood or Bottlerocket?
Blood is slacker and lower but I was hoping Matt would reveal all in the magazine but he seems to be keeping his silence. Failing that has anyone else any views or experience?
My heart says Orange because I like them and buy British when I can. However I will probably buy neither because if I do ride again my wife wont let me buy anything over 25lbs because she knows that just means I will try and crash it.

A few of my mates ride Bloods and they're very, very happy with them. They use them for everything except dh racing, so basically steep, rough and technical stuff, including some dh courses, though to xc and trail centres. I ride a Patriot, and if I didn't I'd just get a Blood or an Alpine 160. I might be wrong, but I think Bottlerockets are heavier than Bloods. Bloods seem reliable, super fun and the angles and bb height are spot on. They climb well too.

Cheers, given it's not an only bike and I doubt I will be racing again a Blood looks good. Something to keep spirits up. My only wheels at the moment are a wheelchair.

Me and a friend ride the 5 AM and another guy has the Blood
recently we went to coed Y brenin and the Blood just seemed
better for jumping and very slow if not pushing the Blood up
the hills.
My advice would be to get the Alpine 160 for your style of riding
being it has the slacker angles and you have the rear of the 224
which is the bike you have.
I wish you good health and a speedy recovery 😉

blood every time. made in halifax angles are pretty close to the bottle rocket but the main thing that would sway me is the maxle rear end. the blood is a qr? saying that i have an alpine and i love it. its not super fast up the hills but it will make you grin on the way down. its like a mini 224. demo them both if you can.

sorry edit, the bottle rocket is a qr.

Cheers Grantway.
I also like the idea of an Alpine but that is probably just because I like Oranges! Where I live we have quite a few downhill runs but it is not rocky and so felt I did not need a tall bike. I do get the chance to ride abroad and sometimes used to take the big bike but often too big really and an Alpine would be perfect for that but perhaps not when closer to home. Fancy being close to the ground like a hardtail but with some give to help me out.

Not worried about fast uphill. Happy to winch and plummet. I had a granny ring on the 224 and rode that uphill and anything has to be better than that.

Bottlerocket if it was me..

i have a 2010 blood and a 2009 five.

The blood is a nice bike, low and slack and as such feels super planted and corners really well. However it does have some issues. Rear mech cable routing being one in particular, i wonder if running a full outer would improve things but dont know if anyone has tried that or not.
The main issue with the blood is actually with the shock, which in my opinion is incorrectly specced. The blood needs a firm compression rate, and the stock shock unfortunately only has a medium tune. The XV air can also doesnt help, the result is that the bike ends up wallowing in the mid stroke. I have tried lots of different shock settings to counter this and did eventually come up with an acceptable one. Basically this involves setting the bike up as normal with 35% sag and then running permanent pro-pedal (setting 2). This improves the rear no end and really props up the mid stroke, unfortunately though at the expense of small bump sensitivity, and of course you wont have the option to flick on pro-pedal for climbs.

The bottom line for me is that if I was buying again i would go for an orange five AM, with 36 forks and a maxle rear it will handle pretty much anything and is easier to setup, maintain and live with. Its also easy to change the build for different types of riding.

the bottlerocket will come in at 36-40lbs, the blood around 32-36. If you are going to pedal it i would go blood over bottlerocket.

+1 for loyalty to Orange.

I'm 'overbiked' with my 5 – only been on it four times in 'anger' in the 18 months I've had it. What a waste.
However, got a P7 on order as it seems just as capable but with less hassle.

just my tuppence worth. I'd stay with Brit brands and help the economy, but do it before the VAT rise!
Good choice to you, sir.

Sailor, thorough response and interesting. 2009 they had FR or AM versions. FR used DHX Coil and I would normally favour coil. Pricey upgrade is a Cane Creek but makes you wonder why they did not use a DHX Air as standard shock. Maybe TF tuned could help. They were good with my Fox 40s

If I didnt have a patriot 7 and a lapierre froggy already id buy a blood…..

i did try a coil, a van R, but it just blew through despite 'custom shimming' to stop this happening. From my experience Mojo are very knowledgeable on the blood, more so than anyone else I spoke to.

Personally i think that whatever shock is fitted the more tuneable it is the better, DHX Air 5, cane creek DB etc, as the blood isnt as 'plug and play' as a five.

I have been considering a DHX Air, but its an expensive upgrade to an already expensive bike, so I will probably just run with the propedal on…….for a while at least.

its not really a problem as the blood isnt really an all day trail bike, despite what people say, (folk can make all sorts of bikes work in all sorts of situations, just look at cyclocross!). The blood is more suited as a play bike, sessioning jumps/drops etc with maybe a bit of pedaling downhill and perhaps to and from trails.

Sailor Take a look at the Manitou ISX6 rear shock.I have just put this
on my Orange 5 AM Basicaly it does not sink or wallow like the FOX RP23
I would say this beats the FOX DHX rear shocks hands down.

Weired thing is this shock has no pro pedal but firmly supports you.
it seems to have auto pro pedal but has soon as you hit or go over a hole/divit the shock activates without any delay feeling.And the best thing is you aint got to keep looking if you are still in pro pedal when going downhill. Also you have a quick snap out the sadle acceleration, and plus you have a 4 stop tools free bottom out adjuster on the shock too.
My FOX RP23 is in the drawer has a spare.

will take a look. With the blood the propedal needs to stay on all the time….especially on the downhill stuff, so no need to check it at the top of every climb.

I have done plenty of riding this weekend A/B'ing the blood and five (14 hours all in), and I can say that for anything downhill the blood is far better, its feels more solid and is much more planted. The five can tackle the same stuff, its just despite less rear travel the blood will tackle it faster, the suspension once it gets going seems to soak the hits better.

I would prefer a slightly more supple beginning stroke, especially as i run flat pedals as it would make pedaling in the rough easier, but the trade off for the mid stroke support is well worth it, it also seems to control the rear better, especially on steep rough descents, this means there are no surprises like a touch of kickback over steep roll-ins, which i noticed on the five.

After this weekends riding i think i would go with the blood over anything else, especially as im far more concerned with downhill performance than how long it takes to get back to the top.

I wonder why orange dont spec a firm compression standard size shock in the first place? Luckily though Mojo know their products and can offer excellent advice, I would recommend giving them a call regardless of what bike you ride for some shock setup advice.

Grantaway speaks the truth. Awesome shock currently on my shortened travel patriot. I was told Orange designers love this shock too – have seen it on a lot of their prototypes. Guess problem comes down to bulk buying for their range at end of the day…

Hey Ed

Neither

you want this… our new bikes for next year!!
[img]http://www.mdebikes.com/images/stories/comunicati2010/newsprodotti/MDE_News01_IT2.jpg[/img]

looks nice but perhaps too much travel to be a direct comparison. 160mm – 175mm rear.

had a look on the site……but i guess that was the point of the post…..there are some crazy tandems on there, does anyone buy them?

other than that looks like one for the shortlist if you are after long travel.

If you like the look of the Blood and you like Oranges then buy the Blood – you won't be disapointed. I have one and its ace.

Don't really concur with comments regarding incorrect shock spec. Mines nearly like a hard tail on Propedal 2 setting. Also manage to ride all day on it without a bother. Yeah its not super fast on the climbs but its worth the slog for the downs.

Oh – I'd also say don't bother selling the 224 either. Just get back on when you're better and take it a bit more canny! I spent Saturday on my DH bike and today on the Blood and reckon I could have done myself just as big an injury on the Blood…

Lots of positive response on Bloods and so should be able to choose with heart and head, thanks. MDE looks good but perhaps a bit too swoopy and complicated for an Orange fan. I've also never understood 'do it all bikes'. I know we are all different and it depends on where we live and ride but if I want to go for a proper ride and get some miles done I take a light XC bike. If I fancy having a laugh in the woods I take a big bike and a full face etc. If I can ride it to the woods and winch the bike uphill then great but not at the expense of too much downhill fun.
As for the 224, I understand your sentiments Jemima and it is great at going as fast as you can over rough stuff, launching off big things and fun for my pathetic racing attempts. However for most mucking about it obliterates too much and is too long and tall. I also think that when I do get back to riding my ambitions may be slightly smaller (if only for the first five years)
Downhill bikes are not usually good things to try and be canny on, simply because you can never blame the bike, it is always a lack of bottle or a lack of skill and that was what got me into trouble in the first place!

+1 to a tee for Jemima. I have a Blood and DH bike, and I'm more than happy as a combo.

Id go with the bottlerocket, very pretty bike, rides ace and can be specced with a coil shock.

They both ride brilliantly, but prefer the Bottlerocket (just) but not in that grey/paint splash colour!

If anyone is struggling with a Bottlerocket demo, let me know…

I know a couple of lads with Bloods and one with an Alpine 160 and none had any bother riding up the Lake District recently (admittedly a fair bit of carrying too). Unsurprisingly they had no bother coming down (Dollywaggon included). All three have come from riding Fives and none of them bitched about it being too much of a drag to pedal up hill.

Mines nearly like a hard tail on Propedal 2 setting.

does yours have a standard size air can? Mine is the XV which is definitely more wallowy, it does feel firm when sitting on the bike, but feels so much better when out of the saddle and heading down hill.

i would be very interested to know how other people are setting up their 2010 shocks on their bloods.

Mine's a 2009 Blood which is the standard air can I believe.
I run a fair bit of sag (35%ish) and wallowy is not a word I would use to describe my bike! If I am riding out of the saddle downhill on Propedal 2 the back end just skips about all over the place.

Having said all that I have been toying with the idea of fitting a CCBD to see how she goes then…

orange suggested i should try a standard size air can as it would reduce mid stroke wallow. I have a standard air can on my five which doesnt wallow but then it is also a different suspension platform.

I doubt there would be a need to run propedal on the regular air can though, but running it on the XV air can seems to be the only way to counter the wallowing mid stroke. Once the rear starts taking the hits the shock opens up and feels as i would expect it to.

I wonder why orange dont spec a firm compression standard size shock in the first place?

Having actually looked at my bike today I see the 2009 Blood with the standard air can came with a firm compression tune and medium rebound.

Does the 5 take the same size shock as the Blood? If so, I'd swap them out to see how it feels with the standard air can…