It’s fair to say she and her disabled friends (she used to work for the theatre company that did the Paras opening ceremony) feel the same!

Just for your entertainment/info too: I have heard my wife say the words “they’re not disabled, they’re just fat!” Usually when we’re struggling to find a blue badge parking spot!

Perhaps she could do the assessments? 😉

*post deleted because I can’t be bothered*

Re Pip

Because the assessment process hasn’t been finalised we don’t have those figures. You can’t estimate the impact of something until you have finalised it.”

Community Care pressed Miller [minister for disabilities] to disclose how many people the DLA reforms would effect.

Budget said the government wanted to reduce the number of working-age claimants of DLA – currently 1.8 million – by 20%. This would reduce annual expenditure on the client group by a similar proportion, amounting to £1.075bn by 2014-15.

like I said that will be next so it might not be Mad pieres wife or the flatboy but it will happen to someone
I think this is why you get the vitroil from the left – tax breaks for the rich and hitting the disabled hard.
It is difficult for many to stomach as personally I find it impossible to morally comprehend without saying some of those things others said on the previous thread about the govt and ots morality.

exactly, and as per earlier in the thread the amount of DLA fraud is so small compared to the boost that would be generated by closing extra-territorial tax loopholes it seems they’re barking up the wrong fiscal tree to anyone at risk of losing their legitimate benefits.

tax breaks for the rich and hitting the disabled hard.

I find it impossible to morally comprehend without saying some of those things others said on the previous thread…….

Oh come on JY, that sort of thing happens throughout the world, and always has – it’s hardly shocking.

Just remember not to vote Tory if it bothers you.

There seems to a lot of confusion over what DLA and ESA are. My 12 year old son receives DLA and has done since the age of 2. Obviously this has nothing to do with his ability to work! it is, in our circumstances, to help with any additional care, transport etc. that we need to provide.

It is made up of 2 payments; mobility and care. the mobility component can be used for a mobility car if you choose to do so. We have to re-apply regularly and give in-depth information about his daily life. the DLA then contact his school, pediatrician and other specialists to confirm the information we have provided.

DLA is a great help and having a reliable car that gets regular services etc is great peace of mind for when he needs to dash to hospital. However, I’d give it up in a heartbeat and everything I earn too in exchange for him being able to lead a life without all the difficulties his condition causes him.

@mad pierre,

How is the allowance worked out? the cars i have seen through motability tend to be golf/focus sized.

is this just what i have seen and is wrong or?

why not polo/fiesta sized?

Seriously, if someone needs help they should get it, just curious as to roughly how the level is determined?

If you look around most people earn less than average wages and struggle to meet the bills. so whilst some form of assistance is right, at what level does it move from assisting to distorting? And the way politicians work make it easy to label groups “THEM” and “US”

@mrmo,

High level mobility component of DLA is roughly £200 per month. You have to receive high rate to qualify for the motability scheme. What car you have dictates how much of this allowance per month you pay in to the scheme. Not every disabled persons family fit in to a micra 😛

This will be interesting – MrsMCTD gets the low rate DLA due to her disability, but is quite capable of holding down a better paid job than me. We don’t need the money for day to day living, couldn’t complain if it was taken away.

BUT

Because of her disability we have to have autoamtic cars, which are more expensive. She only gets low level DLA so not a Motability case, so what we do get kind of goes towards that extra cost of buying and running an automatic car. And we might miss it for that reason.

MCTD makes n interesting point, maybe DLA should be means tested? Disability can be more costly, mobility issues, adapted bathrooms etc. But if someone holds down a well paid job and can afford these additional costs should they not pay for them . An analogy would child tax credits to pay for child care, child costs are not insignificant and not income related but those on a higher income who are deemed to be able to afford child care costs get no help. For those who need to pay for child care it’s essential not a luxury.

thinking a little, i have crap eyes, i have to pay for eye tests, glasses etc to be able to do anything. No glasses no job if you would.

I guess my point is when is a disability a disability?

@slowrider, let me get this right, IF you qualify, your effectively given £200 a month and like a company car driver, you can keep to this budget or if you fancy/can afford something more you can top it up?

You get @£200. You can chose to have a motability car with that money or not. I guess it’s about giving people the means to be as independent as possible without being restricted by the increased costs of day to day living wih a disability.

What qualifies is quite complex. Fox example I work with many children who have no physical disability but are awarded high rate mobility due to their behaviour as part of their condition. There is no way their parents could manage them on public transport so taxis or their own car are the only option if they want to get to school, go out and about etc.

Sorry I went home and went for a bike ride (some of you should try it some time).

@mrmo: you are doing what I said not to do and focusing on the car. Higher level disability allowance is not specifically for a car as has been pointed out earlier and re done by slowrider. It can for example also be used to get a mobility scooter thingy.

@stumpyjon: people choose to have children yet every one of them gets child benefit. It’s not means tested. Nobody chooses to be disabled.

My neighbours have recently been rowing in the street about a small piece of land and the ownership.One of them receives DLA and has just got a new car (Fiesta Diesel).During the row it was thrown at him that he’s just a scrounger and is playing the system.No one can remember when he last worked.
How does someone who can walk a mile to the working mens club for his beer,does all the gardening and diy around the house and happily drives his new car around get DLA.He had a car before this so it wasn’t as if he had no way of getting around.
This causes resentment amongst my neighbours as no one can actually see a disability and can’t understand the criteria for receiving this benefit.

@stumpyjon: people choose to have children yet every one of them gets child benefit. It’s not means tested. Nobody chooses to be disabled.

I wasn’t referring to child benefit, I was referring to child tax credits for child care. People on a lower income get them to help with child care costs, people with a higher income are expected to cover the whole of the cost themseleves as they are obviously deemed to be able to afford it. The argument about having kids is a little bit of a red herring but there is an analogy there which has been mentionned above. When does disability become (an albeit unitntentional) lifestyle choice.

mrmo makes an interesting point as well.

This causes resentment amongst my neighbours as no one can actually see a disability and can’t understand the criteria for receiving this benefit.

Are any of them doctors or welfare advice experts? that might be why?

I dont know the case but report them if you are concerned. However i would make two points
1. Not all disabilities are obvious – do they all need a guide dog or a wheelchair for you to take it seriously?
2. Some conditions have good days and bad days

Yep, if nothing else I’ve learned from this thread that DLA is to help people with disabilities lead a more normal life without the additional financial burden. There are plenty of examples above of people working, legitimately claiming DLA.

Your neighbour may or not be a scrounger but it’s up to the officials in charge of the system to determine that.

What junkyard said. Some days my son needs his wheelchair to get from the house to the car. Other days he runs 2 miles in PE!

Not all disabilities are obvious

I know someone who receives DLA due to their schizophrenia. There is no way that her neighbours are likely to know what her medical condition is, however much they twitch their curtains.

100!

Who’d a thought. Well done everyone, just goes to shwow that reasoned debate about tricky subjects is possible 🙂

Oh no it isn’t!!! 😉

Binners, earlier:

🙂

I know someone who receives DLA due to their schizophrenia

How treatable is the condition?

The question of mental health is even more fraught with difficulty not least because we’re all suffering from some degree of mental ill health; none of us are really perfectly well adjusted and normal.

My sister in law is diagnosed as bipolar or what I think was previously described as manic depressive. Man she is hard work; there is only so much allowance you can make for someone being so brutally difficult to be with.

The hardest part is that when she wants something of my wife (her sister) she’s able to function just fine but when things don’t go her way she is about as unpleasant a person as you’d ever not want to be with. And of course, she has the perfect explanation as to why and is very happy to use it to justify her behaviour.

If she could for one moment, reflect on her behaviour and acknowledge that she is difficult and ask for understanding, I think I’d feel far more gracious towards her. As it is, while she’s able to engage withe the fact that she has a severe personality disorder, she’s utterly unwilling to acknowledge the negative impact her behaviour has on us.

How treatable is the condition?

Well from what I have seen schizophrenia can respond massively to medication. I’m not sure what the connection with DLA entitlement is though 😕

How treatable is the condition?

symptoms can be minimised but its usually not curable, if it’s curable then chances are it was an episode of psychosis and not actual schizophrenia.

The hardest part is that when she wants something of my wife (her sister) she’s able to function just fine but when things don’t go her way she is about as unpleasant a person as you’d ever not want to be with. And of course, she has the perfect explanation as to why and is very happy to use it to justify her behaviour.

key word there is ‘behaviour’ you can have bi-polar and still be a decent person, only in the depths of the depressive stage and the highs of the manic stage do people normally lose their capacity to have some control over how they interact with others. sounds like the personality disorder side coming out instead of the bipolar in those instances.

as for DLA for schizophrenia… well i know that none of the schizophrenics i currently work with (i run what i’ve developed into a bit of a specialist service for adult males with schizophrenia in the local area) would cope with a job due to their paranoia and general presentation to the uneducated public. 🙁 its a very debilitating illness that might not be visible in the way rolling around in a wheelchair is.

The question of mental health is even more fraught with difficulty not least because we’re all suffering from some degree of mental ill health

Thasts like arguing we all have some degree of asthma or Parkinsons disease or any other illness you care to name.
I see what you mean to say – we all struggle at times but medically speaking it is incorrect to suggest we all have some mild form of mental illness. we dont we cope fine with the stresses of life.

mrmo – Member

@slowrider, let me get this right, IF you qualify, your effectively given £200 a month and like a company car driver, you can keep to this budget or if you fancy/can afford something more you can top it up?

this wasn’t fully answered above so allow me. if you sacrifice your DLA to motability you qualify for a relatively basic level of car. You can then choose to pay an upfront premium of £hundreds-thousands which entitles you to a more expensive vehicle. We do this as we have a baby so the amount of space required for wheelchair + baby and equipment (and bikes + equipment!) means the smaller cars available wouldn’t be large enough, + my wife needs an automatic because of her condition, + we wanted a slightly “nicer” car so paid extra for it.

It’s now capped at 2 grand to stop folk getting discount range rovers and ferraris

indeed. which is extremely annoying because it was changed in a response to the daily mail brigade getting all upset that some disabled people got to drive cars that were deemed too fancy. also meaning that our current car would be unavailable when it comes up for replacement.

it was changed in a response to the daily mail brigade getting all upset that some disabled people got to drive cars that were deemed too fancy.

Yup, some people believe that whilst disabled people should receive some help, it shouldn’t be so much that they enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without a struggle. A certain amount of poverty and hardship is expected from disabled people.

Presumably these people feel that disabled people hold some responsibility for their disability, and should therefore not enjoy a totally happy life.

and the £2k cut off is completely arbitrary – it wasn’t like we got anything before the cap that we didn’t pay for and now a massive swathe of suitable cars is removed. very annoying.

Interesting take on the process by Zoe Williams in todays Guardian

Flakcatcher

Presumably these people feel that disabled people hold some responsibility for their disability, and should therefore not enjoy a totally happy life.

Remember Glen Hoddle’s god bothering outburst about them being punished for things done in a past life a few years back? If my other half ever meets him he would be in danger still!

Yup, some people believe that whilst disabled people should receive some help, it shouldn’t be so much that they enjoy a comfortable lifestyle without a struggle.

Playing devil’s advocate, there are plenty of people, disabled or not, for whom enjoying a comfortable lifestyle is a struggle, if a possibility at all. They may or may not get state help.

Is it not fair that state help should only provide the basic necessities (i.e. the essentials) and not ‘comfort’ (i.e. the ‘nice to haves’)?

I appreciate that definition of what is a basic necessities is entirely open to interpretation.

Glen Hoddle is almost as bonkers as David Ike

IHN – Member

Is it not fair that state help should only provide the basic necessities (i.e. the essentials) and not ‘comfort’ (i.e. the ‘nice to haves’)?

the amount provided is sits firmly in the former rather than the latter category. the issue i’m mentioning above is that the choice of topping this amount up on the motability scheme has been removed from those who could choose to do so because of the daily mailers getting upset about seeing disabled people in decent cars.

the issue i’m mentioning above is that the choice of topping this amount up on the motability scheme has been removed from those who could choose to do so

Yeah, that is ridiculous.

Playing devil’s advocate, there are plenty of people, disabled or not, for whom enjoying a comfortable lifestyle is a struggle, if a possibility at all. They may or may not get state help.

have they abolished the tax credits scheme as well now..?

The whole system is FUBAR at the moment. I’m deaf and also have an artificial hip, both these issues make it difficult to find work. I can’t be on my feet all day and I cannot be face to face with the public ie serving customers etc.
Last year I received ESA employment support allowance and DLA whilst doing my best to find a job. However I was told 2/3 months ago because my wife works more than 20 hours a week I no longer qualify for ESA and its up to my wife to support me and her WTF 😈
I didn’t think this would be a problem because I still got DLA. According to the incompetent inbreds behind desks assessing DLA applicants I have made a miraculous recovery and I no longer need help.
So I’m out of work with no money and my savings are getting smaller by the day.
How can the government make such ridiculous decisions. I bet if I was popping kids out and couldn’t work because I was an alcoholic the bastards would give me a house and all the money I could ever want.
Before I get flamed I have worked since I left school up until I was made redundant a while ago. I want to go back to work, I hate not working. Cameron says there are jobs for everyone. WHERE?
Where are the jobs you incompetent ****?
Sorry about the rant, but it’s a subject I feel strongly about .