"swap it back"

but i swapped it in the first place cos it felt like i was gonna go over the bars at every little bump/ root/ step.

surely that can't be the problem???

EDIT- it did seem to improve things slightly.

your front rotor looks a bit small, and I was worried that you might find it a bit waggy if you're standing up climbing on it a lot as you don't have very low gears.

I'm sorry but I have no idea why you feel like you're going to go over the bars though as it's quite the complete opposite to what most people feel or find.

is it just me or are the rear brake mounts a pain to set up? my caliper is pressed against the frame?

First set of forks (broken):

now with newer forks that work:

Loving mine, feels great with the 140mm Pikes, although riding a HT after so long just riding FS is a bit of a shock for the old legs! 😀

why are the two colours black and orange but no blue? i know the blue pig is a trail but wouldnt it make abit of sence to make blue a colour choice?

my caliper is pressed against the frame?

I understand that quite early Avid Juicy's in a 160mm size slightly foul the seatstay, I think. Switching the mount from an Avid to a Hayes bracket rotates the caliper forward, but gives the same position relative to the axle, and clears the frame.

why are the two colours black and orange but no blue? i know the blue pig is a trail but wouldnt it make abit of sence to make blue a colour choice?

That doesn't really make any sense if you think about it. I'm not sure "sense" comes into it.

ruler of the kingdom of scholey hill – Are you hanging off the back of the bike on descents like you have done with your previous bikes? This is a bike that you can ride with more body weight over the front end. The slack head angle makes you less likely to get sent over the bars. In what way do you feel better with the longer stem?

Ed-O – Member
ruler of the kingdom of scholey hill – Are you hanging off the back of the bike on descents like you have done with your previous bikes?

yes i am as it happens! it's something that's psychologically built in from riding the superlight, as it feels so 'upright' (???)
the longer stem makes me feel more stable. someone else (another thread) has said they felt the bb seemed higher than 'other' bikes, maybe that also has something to do with it. although, i can't see that there would be that much in it tbh… might be wrong.

don't really want to return to the short stem, as it didn't feel good at all.

lee quarry tomorrow, so might try repositioning myself on the bike and see what happens.

i'll report back. thanks all for the tips.

that fsa white seatpost wont last long trust me i had one and it turned silver within 2 week lol

so might try repositioning myself on the bike and see what happens.

Well, if you don't try, it won't feel better.

You need to be stood up, tall and proud, not leaning right back with your balls on the back tyre.

I don't think I've ever ridden a Ragley with a 90mm stem, but it's not going to be right.

Shorter stems rock on piggies. If you want a regular hardtail where you have to hang off the back, get one. If you want a piggie, ride it like it's designed to be ridden

NBT, proud highposter (even on the piggie)

does the mechanical advantage of placing the disc caliper there outweigh the compromise of the cable routing? it looks well placed for rock strikes and heel rub.

also, the OP needs to sort out his front brake hose.

i think the colours look great ,its cool to add a little spice to ya ride,

what bars are people using on their pigs

what bars are people using on their pigs

i've got easton ea 30 on mine, 685 wide

740 mm bars, 50mm stem = spot on for me.

Never felt like I was going over the bars though, surely a longer stem will enforce that feeling more so?

wors – Premier Member

i've got easton ea 30 on mine, 685 wide
Ditto

745mm sunline v1. 8) wi a 70mm stem for now..prob go 50mm when can afford.

this frame is the best hardtail frame ive ever ridden imo…tested it alot this weekend,feels sound as,really nice feel to it,angles are great,feels great thrashing it,and nice off the drops,climbs spot on!!

niggles,only one -seatpost clamp dont recomend Hope does'nt hold the seatpost correctly and if you want it to,you have to tighten it up to **** which is then hard to clamp it up and undo etc…yes it is the correct clamp size and my mate had the exact same problem with his,
solved the problme by using a ragley one which is spot on for the frame..

"i've lengthened the stem to a rf 90mm (from easton 60mm"
Its designed around a 50-70mm stem (I think)
If its cramped, it may be that you needed a longer frame? You could try a seatpost with more layback and some wider bars to drag you a bit further forward

"swapped it in the first place cos it felt like i was gonna go over the bars"

From your picture it looks like your bars are too low (A proper side-on picture would help as to just how low). Long stem, low position will work (on a more XC bike), but short and low feels really arkward IMO
(Personally) for more aggro riding it doesn't feel exaclty right unless my bars are about level with my saddle at proper pedalling height (yes, I prefer it like this even with the saddle down, especially when its only slighlty down)

You'll want wider bars if you're going to raise them too, so they 'feel' like they've the same amount of 'leverage' up high
Try some 50mm+ rise bars? and/or a slightly longer stem with significant rise maybe?

A decent side-on pic would help a lot (ie where you can see how much lower the grips are than the saddle at pedalling height)

(Personally) for more aggro riding it doesn't feel exaclty right unless my bars are about level with my saddle at proper pedalling height

ooh no. no. no.

I know that doesn't sound right (written), but with bars (significantly) lower I find the front end too low, especially when I don't want to drop the saddle all the way down (okay so when the saddle is right out the way, lower bars are better, properly weighting the front wheel)
Looking at the pic again, the bars might not be as low as I thought, maybe just try sticking the stem to the top of the spacer stack might be worth a try

I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with any counterarguing here though ..

james – Member

I know that doesn't sound right (written), but with bars lower than my saddle I find the front end too low

I can see I'm not going to get anywhere with any counterarguing here though ..

I think Brant was trying to say you have your saddle way too high 😉

It probably is

Here's mine. 685 EA70's, 50mm stem. Loving it!

685 aint long enough… 😛

Brant has voiced this thing he has against getting way out the back over the rear tyre on steep descents before. I'm no expert but I don't quite understand it….. surely the higher up you are and the further foreward you are, on a bike going down a steep slope, the more your centre of gravity is going to take you over the bars if you hit a big obstacle. If you unweight the front and sit lower out over the back then it is more likely to ride the hit.
I'm bound to be shot down in flames here but never mind!
I have two 18" 456's and I have been running them with 90 stems and the saddle pushed right foreward as far as it will go, because I found 80 too twitchy….BUT….all my kit was 25.4 EA70 bars and stems….. I've just made the change across to an oversize Carnegie bar with a 70mm stem and it feels sound as… and I can get over the back for steep descents with the saddle positioned centraly on a straight post.
I also went with an old EA30 or 50? 25.4 bar and an 80 stem and that's fine aswell. So I was thinking that the cheaper easton bars are also more rigid!

like the colour scheme but your cable routing is all wrong and your front qr is pointing forward. enjoy riding what looks like a flippin' rad bike!

Way out the back usually means straight arms, no shock absorbtion and no steering control.

There are people much better at it than me, and this isn't the best video to show it on (watch to the end)… but… http://vimeo.com/4574986

Even on really quite steep and bumpy stuff, for me, it's about keeping low and forward as much as possible to retain bent elbows, rather than what I see quite a lot which is people almost lying prone on the saddle with fingertips just clinging onto the bars.

Ed (Greatrock training) was noticing that the style we've developed on the Ragley's actually doesn't translate very well to many other bikes as they are so much slacker up front (we have a static 65.6deg head angle, whereas something like a P7 is say a 69deg head angle – that's a huge difference, and in real terms means your front wheels is an inch and a half further forward on a Ragley, hence why we can probably descend in a different way, and I can get down stuff that I couldn't before).

looked at them steps today,they aint easy like.

On the 'off the back' thing….

On way steep slopes you will be off the back to keep a good balanced position on the bike. However lots of people ride off the back as a default position every time the hill goes down, regardless of how steep it is. They also do this when riding over rocks, at any gradient, or when riding berms. The result is often a lack of control and the inability to turn the bike. A slack bike will allow you to ride further forward on the bike. As Brant says you can keep your elbows more bent like this and you can steer the bike better. Sweetness results!

This dial up connection won't get me into that video inside of a large part of an hour so I shall try a clicky clicky on that link in my grub break at work tomorrow and prepare to be ……….converted.

Not that I will benefit. I'm 50 and when I try to relearn riding techniques I keep on crashing until I erase all new thoughts from my head and return to the 'unthought auto ride setting' that has kept me out of hospital…………………so far. (If in doubt/bottle out)

I think the whole "off the back" thing has been overhyped, more than one rider I know automatically assumes that you need to be behind the saddle on a descent, when that's rarely the case. the idea of moving behind the saddle is to keep your centre of gravity over the bike's centre of gravity. if you need to be behind the saddle to achieve that, you;re riding some seriously steep stuff

As it happens……. the worst tumble I had was due to my being too far over the back. I hit a deep trough at about 40mph on a long steep descent and wasn't able to push my weight foreward enough in time to counter the effects of the up on the exit to the trough. The front end flew up and I ditched onto my back. My 'auto unthought ride control system' must have picked up on that because it hasn't happened since!

40mph 😯

billyboy – Member
This dial up connection won't get me into that video inside of a large part of an hour so I shall try a clicky clicky on that link in my grub break at work tomorrow and prepare to be ……….converted.

Not that I will benefit. I'm 50 and when I try to relearn riding techniques I keep on crashing until I erase all new thoughts from my head and return to the 'unthought auto ride setting' that has kept me out of hospital…………………so far. (If in doubt/bottle out)

That`s not old…got a few yrs to catch me up.

Here is mine, a real budget build!!
I bought the frame.
Stripped and used all the bits I could from my Kona and Bontrager. Bought some 3rd hand forks, some new cables, scrounged a 70mm stem, ex Ridgeback and built it up. Width of bars = nae idea, just as they came out of the box(East Monkey)
Some people just over anylize stuff. Stop thinking and just ride!!!

I do find I have to stop myslef shoving my bum over the back of the seat. Old dogs can learn new tricks billyboy 😆
Having gone over the bars lots when I started I got into the habit of overcompensating(or just bailing 🙄 )
The Pig feels just like my Kona Dawg in some ways and can do all it does.
But then again I tend to just ride without thinking too much.

I know its not an entirely relevant comparison, but look at the way Sam Hill et. al. ride; right over the front. with your body weight over the front tyre you have way more control in corners as you're loading force into your tyres allowing them better grip. a big bike like the pig has enough suspension up front to handle your body weight being up there… try running your forks a bit stiffer if not!

Next time I descend the Walna Scar Road to Coniston I'm going to make a conscious effort to try and remember what I do actualy do on the way down.

I did it with a girlfriend once….pause for applause….no, the Walna Scar Road…. She had made a deliberate decision to buy a bike that was a size too large for her because of comfort issues with correct sized bikes. Her descending of the more serious steep slopes was scarry to watch because she couldn't equalise her centre of gravity.

Whatever the right answer is, I think Brant's take on frame building is spot on. The 456s I've got are the most accomplished hardtails I've ridden for Lakeland etc type use. My Pace303 feels marginally better on steep descents but for everything else I prefer the 456 and since I bought my first steel one two years ago, the 303 has lived in the shed.

The other thing about having a slack head angle is that your fork will compress more in the horizontal plane than if you had a steep head angle if you get what I mean – not very well described I know. A bit like the way full-sus bikes sometimes claim to have a 'rearward axle path' to deal with 'square-edge hits'.

This might seem like a small difference, but will make it less likely that you go over the bars if you hit something.

Even though I ride a bike with a steep head angle and rigid forks, it's very rare that I have to hand right off the back of the bike. I do tend to keep the weight off the front wheel on descents, but that's to make it easier to lift it over stuff.

Never have your arms straight is the key to staying in control.

get rid of it…you won't be the first.All you are going to hear on this forum is people defending their product or current ride.Have a decent test ride next time.
Offer him a refund Brant, or a lesson Ed…

crackhead – Member

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