I wish people would get their head around the difference between "Homeopathy" and "Herbalism"/"Herbal Remedies".

i wish people would get their heads around the difference between these and proper medication prescribed by professionals and not some tit in a healthfood shop.
proper drugs dont work for everyone but they can usually at least provide a crutch to help you along until you heal enough to make your own way again, your gp should be able to help you with things other than pills if they are doing a half decent job.

to the OP, talk to your folks/friends if you find this hard to do at least make an app to see your gp. might be hard to see a way out of it at the moment but when you start asking for help you should get it.
good luck to you.

feel free to try the beardy sandal tea, you might feel better in a few weeks but it wont be anything to do with your nasty tasting cuppa. by then xmas/whatever has gone and you would feel better anyway.

exercise does help and in the words of the famous philosopher "Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set And Go Out And Do Something Less Boring Instead?"

amazing, the anti swear software turned the 3 letter word for a small bird into a 4 asterisk shocker. i could be saying almost anything about those c**ts in healthfood shops 😉

proper drugs dont work for everyone

I believe for antidepressants they are only marginally more effective than a placebo in most cases 🙁

I believe for antidepressants they are only marginally more effective than a placebo in most cases

thats what the recent studies say, all sorts of probs with the proper drugs but if they marginally work better than placebos thats still better than nothing, at least it has been tested and proved to some degree. the homeo/herbal route has never tested better than placebo if you take out the variables. ask your GP they are usually nice helpfull people.

if you want something that works marginally less, costs more than a prescription and could be more harmfull than the tested drug you could try the herbal stuff etc from the healthfood shop and put your faith into the beardy chap/women behind the counter. depends on your belief systems really.

unfortunately in some studies exercise has tested better than any of the drugs but if you ask your GP for a gym pass/bike to the same value of the drugs they might proscribe you will be told to "get tay f…" (in scotland anyway)

all sorts of probs with the proper drugs but if they marginally work better than placebos thats still better than nothing

yeah, marginally, but also with lots of embarrasing and inconvenient side effects – for instance sex is good for depression, but on SSRIs I couldn't come 🙁 On the upside I could shag all night 🙂

But I'm not arguing for quack medicines because I found CBT massively more effective, and for that matter exercise can be cheap and self prescribed

for instance sex is good for depression, but on SSRIs I couldn't come On the upside I could shag all night

so if you are depressed and dont have a job perhaps you should "retrain" as a pornstar. sorry below the belt i know 😀

to the OP you have made the first step in even posting up here, talking to strangers is sometimes more comfortable and easy than to people you know. thats how the samaritans work, they might not take the piss or suggest going to the healthfood shop to make yourself happy though 🙄

Without wanting to sound patronising, have you ever read 'Touching the void', I just read it out of interest but found it almost impossible to complain about anything for months after. Given that everything was ramped up against the guy he just kept on fighting.

Without wanting to sound patronising, have you ever read 'Touching the void', I just read it out of interest but found it almost impossible to complain about anything for months after. Given that everything was ramped up against the guy he just kept on fighting.

Ah, the "pull yourself together" approach to treatment of medical conditions.

And, presumably, we should be telling petesgaff the same thing over on his thread?

Please.

Ah, the "pull yourself together" approach to treatment of medical conditions.

toby1 actually made a good point, which essentially relates to the CBT treatment – people with depression, caused by low self esteem/negative thoughts/performance anxiety/etc are depressed because they think that the situation they are in is bad/horrific/can't get any worse. These people (myself included, btw) usually fail to see the positive side of a situation, and so get depressed. Joe Simpson is essentially an optimist, and therefore has the strength of conviction and confidence to believe that "everything will be OK" or that "things could be worse" etc. Those with depression don't think this way.

I hate the MTFU statements you get, but essentially combatting depression (for some) is about changing from negative to positive thinking, and if Joe Simpson had been a depressive, he probably would have just given up on the first fall which broke his leg.

So yes, its good to be shown that things aren't actually that bad, even if we think they are. Worries about crap job, little money, family bickering, etc can be shown to actually be insignificant compared to other people's problems e.g. Pete's illness.

so if you are depressed and dont have a job perhaps you should "retrain" as a pornstar. sorry below the belt i know

that was 8 years ago – I'm fixed now 🙂

I hate the MTFU statements you get, but essentially combatting depression (for some) is about changing from negative to positive thinking

It is. But simply reading a third party account of how one person overcame an event of almost incredible hardship is unlikely to flick a switch in the mind of the depressed person and automatically change their thought modes.

CBT and the like are about a step-by-step change to move from the "I don't care what Joe Simpson went through, I can't even get out of bed" to the "I totally relate to the challenge presented to Simpson" by making many more – achievable – changes in the interim.

So, sadly, i still see the "someone else is worse off than you" approach to be entirely unhelpful. I saw in Mrs North how, if someone tried that, it would simply wash over her, because her capacity for empathy was all but extinguished.

Marijuana

Why would you trust some 'natural' remedy when your doctor is prescribing you an approved treatment for your depression?

Because the natural remedy has also been proved to have fewer symptoms and be equally, if not more effective in clinical trials (for mild depression)? Obviously you still have to be aware that it affects other medications, but it comes with this warning and you can check with your doc if you want.

My firm belief is that most people with mild mood disorder need 'talking treatment', the most effective being CBT. However, I strongly believe that there is a place for 'proper' medicine for those who need it. Anti depressants are not the blunt instrument of yesteryear and are a lifeline for people with clinical depression.

I work in Mental Health and also have personal experience of using mental health services for clinical depression. I have personally benefitted from the combined approach of medication and talking treatment. I have accepted that my lifestyle choices in my youth mean that it is likely that I will have to be a lifelong user of SSRIs to supplement my production of Serotonin.

Despite fitting the bill for most of the symptoms of depression on occasion, I can't help but feel that just because I feel crap and might have changed a few habits, it doesn't mean I have a mental illness, just that I need to look at things a different way. It seems surprising to me that a vast number of the people I know have used antidepressants in what appear to be normal happy lives – maybe mild depression is normal and we shouldn't be treating it? I dunno, all seems a bit odd.

I have accepted that my lifestyle choices in my youth mean that it is likely that I will have to be a lifelong user of SSRIs to supplement my production of Serotonin.

Is that an established fact then? Presumably you are talking about taking Es? I wasn't sure if the link was confirmed between taking Es and depression in later life (though it doesn't seem hugely unlikely).

what appear to be normal happy lives

appearances can be deceptive. I've seen people I thought had it all together crumble completely – slowly you find out what was below the surface couldn't be described as 'happy'

recently v wealthy guy, cheerful chap, nice family, great business, lost it all as he couldn't cope with anything anymore, including having a family

it doesn't mean I have a mental illness

I'm not sure this label is very useful. I suppose in the same way there's an autistic spectrum there's also a depressive spectrum from abject misery to crabbiness. I find it hard to take a passive role, so drugs were very unsatisfactory for me, whereas CBT, which involves actively changing the way you think was far more suited to my personality.

I have accepted that my lifestyle choices in my youth mean that it is likely that I will have to be a lifelong user of SSRIs to supplement my production of Serotonin.

Is that an established fact then? Presumably you are talking about taking Es? I wasn't sure if the link was confirmed between taking Es and depression in later life (though it doesn't seem hugely unlikely).

I really don't think that has been established. I've dabbled more than most and find I'm increasingly optimistic and cheerful as I get older.

Of course, I do ride my bike more too.

Lots of people use illegal substances (and legal ones) to deal with the same problems that anti-depressants are prescribed for though, so there may seem to be a correlation at first glance.

ourmaninthenorth – I agree with you, but saying that can't derive guidance or help from reading such stories is also, as you say, unhelpful.

Going simply on the experience of contributers to this thread, everyone suffers and copes in different ways, so you can't dismiss a form of therapy simply because it didn't work for you. All forms, I believe, are valid if they are some help to sufferers.

There are definitely studies that show a link between the use of E and depression (can't quote the article but I read a review of the studies in a journal beloning to one of our Psychiatric consultants), suggesting that it depletes the body's ability to produce Serotonin. Anecdotally I would agree with them. However that doesn't mean that everyone who took E's will develop or be prone to depression and also doesn't mean that there is necessarily a causal link, just that there is a correlation.

Joe Simpson: the impression I got was that he began his self rescue, descending into the crevasse, because there was nothing else to do that would improve his position – the fear and anger he experienced doing that must have been excruciatingly bad.
To then pull himself out, down the glacier and through all that pain demonstrates incredibly wilful and physical desire not to die – he said it was an insistent other voice in his head. You've seen how well he has re-rehabilitated – the guy is incapable of understanding the word "NO".
Not sure how this relates to depression treatment, but I do admire what he did and his writing too. I found much of his writing inspirational, not just "misery literature".

Kit – fair point. I guess I reacted somewhat to an apparent suggesiton of "buck up", when in realtiy it represent a range of approach in the same way there is a range of depression.

What I deal with is mild, and it comes and goes. It's also entirely situational, and is linked directly to work (though I can also see certain undercurrents as well). I can apply a bit of "pull yourself together" to myself, though I suspect I would take it less well from another.

I saw Mrs North in a severly depressed state, unable to leave the bed, let alone exit the house. The Joe Simpson analogy would have passed her by.

The thing I saw in Mrs North that was the most valuable was CBT. Prescribed meds helped stabilise. The CBT then allowed her to build on that stability, and address her thinking.

She wants me to go for CBT. I'm struggling with accepting that I need to, though because I know I'm struggling with that, I could probably also derive massive value from attending, being open minded and seeking to act on the challenges presented.

But I do tend to over analyse….

But I do tend to over analyse….

You'll probably enjoy it then 😆

There are definitely studies that show a link between the use of E and depression

but it might be that depressive personalities are more prone to drug taking, or to drugs which are perceived as lightweight…

She wants me to go for CBT. I'm struggling with accepting that I need to

what's the worst that could happen ??

Simon: "but it might be that depressive personalities are more prone to drug taking, or to drugs which are perceived as lightweight… "

As I said in my previous post.

"However that doesn't mean that everyone who took E's will develop or be prone to depression and also doesn't mean that there is necessarily a causal link, just that there is a correlation."

Hmmmm a lot of intense reactions and thoughts that a/b/c is the best / correct fix.

Meds = I'm very suspicous of Dr's (aka Quacks according to my old man) – my grandfather had the full shock treatment and the social pariah status that came with depression during the 40's and 50's.
Various members of my family have had mild – medium depression.
My ex-wife (with a combo of post rave and post natal) depression did not have her life improved by Seroxat and once the Dr realised it was wrong for her Prozac, which didn't help much either. I saw this pattern across a number of women in my social circle.
My father-in-law, however, swears by his daily does of Prozac = so it works for him.
I've never gone for the medical option as I don't want to lie on a job app / pension / life insurance etc…. form = it's a hangover from the social pariah status that my mother grew up with.

St. Johns Wort = During the worst of my depressions (which would probably be considered medium) I have found it helps, however, as others have said treat it with caution and look out for side effects – if you choose to try it.

CBT = As I've grown older a mixture of recognising my emotional patterns early on and applying CBT helps – if the girt black dog gets a grip CBT can be thrown out the window IMHO.

Exercise & Meditation = these are the structures that I have found help to keep me balanced. Which requires discipline – easy when I'm normal, easy to stop when I'm feeling really over-happy and too easy to stop when i'm feeling bad. But the CBT helps to maintain these structures.

As I'm on a MTB forum – I'd say try to force yourself out on the bike but on the whole try to get out into a park, garden or countryside whenever you can.

(on a complete aside – I'd spent much of my teen / early twenties in what I now recognise as a depressed state and the rave scene was the first time that I'd been joyful in my life. So whilst it brought hope into a joyless existence it encouraged dangerous behaviour patterns for the next few years!)

A few weeks ago my GP tiold me I simply had too much to contend with in my life and it was making me depressed. She prescribed citalopram.

Within a week my head had gone completely. I felt totally empty. Left the wife for a few days, was going to pack my job in and all sorts of nonsense was going through my head.

I am slowly realising I need to decide what I can do something about and the things I can do absolutely nothing about – and then do something to effect change.

I actually think I need to STOP talking to a therapist and start DOING things to rebuild my self esteem and work towards the sort of life I want ie a very simple one!

what's the worst that could happen ??

I discover the real me?

[/quote]chakaping – Member

I have accepted that my lifestyle choices in my youth mean that it is likely that I will have to be a lifelong user of SSRIs to supplement my production of Serotonin.

Is that an established fact then? Presumably you are talking about taking Es? I wasn't sure if the link was confirmed between taking Es and depression in later life (though it doesn't seem hugely unlikely).

I really don't think that has been established. I've dabbled more than most and find I'm increasingly optimistic and cheerful as I get older.

Of course, I do ride my bike more too.

Lots of people use illegal substances (and legal ones) to deal with the same problems that anti-depressants are prescribed for though, so there may seem to be a correlation at first glance.

+1

stoner's link would be a great starting point – impressed with it so far

"I'm struggling with accepting that I need to"

I recognise that. Think it's partly to do with concerns about future employment, insurance etc. Another difficulty with starting therapy treatment is that I predict what one of the "answers" will be and don't like or want to accept it.

I recognise that. Think it's partly to do with concerns about future employment, insurance etc.

Reason I don't go to the doc.

I *accidentally* discovered that I have a slightly odd heart rhythm (caused by right bundle branch block – not that uncommon), which means thaty I now have to disclose a "heart condition" on insurance etc. forms.

Another difficulty with starting therapy treatment is that I predict what one of the "answers" will be and don't like or want to accept it.

Indeed. Examining the self is one thing. I'm not sure I want to provbe as deeply as another might encourage me to do.

As I said in my previous post.

I was just stressing the limited nature of the findings!

what's the worst that could happen ??
I discover the real me?

it doesn't work like that, though you might learn to accept and like yourself and your life a lot more

I actually think I need to STOP talking to a therapist and start DOING things to rebuild my self esteem

this was the essence of CBT for me – to some extent talking therapy just indulges your negative patterns – CBT gave me practical things to do every day, until the process became automatic and internalised.

it doesn't work like that, though you might learn to accept and like yourself and your life a lot more

OK. Funnily enough, I don't think I'm that bad. Others may disagree.

OMITN
CBT is not about "taking your soul out and examining it" It is a method of altering the patterns of thought you use.

There are many types of talking therapies. No one type works for all but CBT gives good results quickly for fairly superficial issues.

but CBT gives good results quickly for fairly superficial issues.

yeah, looking back I wonder why I was so desperately unhappy for no obvious reason at all!

CBT is great. But some people are too ill to access it and that is where anti-depressants can help. They can get you to the stage when you can access CBT and use it!

Well I've just started the MoodGym workbook CBT on-line training and it has suggested I go see a GP……. Now I am depressed! Thing is, just don't know what he can do for me as I can't really put my finger on anything to fix.

🙁