In it for the long haul – A journey into e-bike ownership. Here’s Sanny’s first instalment of a multi-part series of features detailing life with an e …

By mark

Get the full story here:

Living with an e-bike – Part One

A good read and will be interesting to see how the reliability holds up with Sanny on it for a year !

The price thing really is a thought. I bought a Levo SL summer 20 and with upgrades it was close to 10k, which was rather eye watering at the time. It’s been pretty good, a few electrical issues in the warranty period, and then it needed a new motor when just out of warranty. Spesh came good on that and supplied it via lbs at cost price, so about half retail.

Most of my riding last year was gravel and road and I did wonder about selling the Levo, but they go very cheap second hand so I’m better off keeping it !

Looks like it will be an interesting read when it’s done

I fully appreciate this isn’t a peer reviewed Nature article, but feel compelled to suggest a thorough assessment could have involved a pre & post weigh-in and fitness test and only riding an eBike/moped for 6 months.

In the docu style of Super Size Me – 100% commitment to the cause, but without the buns! Now that would  be interesting 😉.

Been looking for an article like this for a long time 👍The thing that puzzles me though being an Orbea Rise owner and the other E Bike thread is the almost hatred of the Shimano motor and suggesting the Transition but not with the EP8 . The other option is the Fazua motor which the Pivot also has  but surely that hasn’t been around long enough to be proven ?

Finally I’m that old our first house was £2K less than the Pivot 😳😳😳

Two wheels are better than four in my book. If you are riding, you aren’t driving and that to me is a gold-plated good thing.

Which I agree with in principle, but the reality is that e-mtbs have very little to do – or not to do – with whether people also drive cars. You couid equally laud, oh, I dunno, crochet on the basis that ‘if you are crocheting, you aren’t driving and that to me is a gold-plated good thing’.

I’m not sure that eco-friendliness holds much water when it comes to justifying mountain biking generally, let alone electrically-assisted mountain biking. Better to just argue that it’s better for people to get out side on an e-bike rather than be sat inside watching telly than dragging sustainability into it in a convoluted way. The ‘having fun’ argument, on the other hand, is fine with me.

Storing the battery at this time of year..

Outside in potentially sub-zero temps vs inside the house with potential fire risk?

Have you got a Range Extender for it yet ? If so what size ?

Finally I’m that old our first house was £2K less than the Pivot 😳😳😳

Ok boomer. 😉

I’m not sure that eco-friendliness holds much water when it comes to justifying mountain biking generally, let alone electrically-assisted mountain biking.

My understanding is that how you get to your mountain biking is far more environmentally problematic than the actual mountain biking?

Kramer 😁😁😁

Which I agree with in principle, but the reality is that e-mtbs have very little to do – or not to do – with whether people also drive cars.

I think this kind of depends where on the scale you’re looking, the vast majority of ebikes I see are base model Halfords and Decathlon e-mountain bikes, admittedly these are just bikes being used for transport, not for leisure.

Don’t like the cable routing but this looks way better value and imho the removable battery makes it more practical

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/electric-bikes/focus-jam2-sl-9-9-review

I think this kind of depends where on the scale you’re looking,

I was looking at the bit on the scale where Sanny is long-term reviewing an £11,250 e-mtb. I’m sure there are people using e-bikes to replace cars for local journeys, trips to the supermarket, commutes etc and that’s great, I’m just not entirely convinced that expensive e-mtbs are bought for those reasons or that riding one has any impact on car use either way. Unless we’re talking bikes that are so expensive you can no longer afford to run a car I guess, in which case it all makes sense :-)

@Iainc

Glad your specialized is still going strong. Your point about the value second hand dropping is well made. I wonder who will want to buy an Orbea, Specialized or Ibis e bike at full price in future given how much the prices have been slashed? I would be loathe to buy one full price only to see it drop by 50 per cent a few months later. I suspect many buyers will now be wary of spending full price on e bikes in future. I count myself among them. It feels like a case of the bike industry shooting itself in the foot unless prices are going to drop permanently.

@binman

No range extender yet. Fazua promised one that would work with a Fidlock mount. No sign yet after more than a year. A bag version is available but seems really hard to get hold of.

 

@surfthemaze

Given that you took the riding shots, you know there is zero chance of me being that scientific. Besides, all the tips I get from using it for Deliveroo duties will be what makes me less fit as I fill my face with pizzas that I don’t deliver! Ha! Ha!

@badlywireddog

To be fair, I have been using the bike for journeys that I would have used the car for previously. It is not the reason i got the bike to test but a happy additional benefit. I find that the bit of assistance on tap has encouraged me to jump on for casual trips to the shops or nipping out to visit friends. It is a very expensive shop bike but the point remains that it is getting used for that very purpose.

@dmorts

The bike gets stored in the house under an interlinked smoke and heat alarm system. I would be loathe to store something so valuable in a shed. i never have it charging overnight nor when i am out the house. The risk with fire seems to be far greater with home brew e bikes.

@stue

I am with you re internal cable routing. It just makes maintenance more awkward than it need be for the sake of aesthetics.

Any more questions or comments? Keep em coming. Happy to answer as best i CAN.

Cheers

Sanny

@oldfart

The Pivot costs more than my car which is nuts in my book. My first house cost more than it though!

Hmm- an interesting challenge as nothing in life is truly objective. I might suggest a scorecard should be kept to guard against misunderstanding of the judgment process. Personally I could never spend that much on an e-mtb but I would hope at that price it’s pretty great at some level. For my part if I don’t ride an e-mtb then I can’t ride at all cos my knee is damaged. So my e-mtb is truly transformative. But beyond that, in my this far relatively brief experience, riding an e-mtb is massive fun and it cleans technical stuff (both up and down) like no other bike I’ve ever ridden. Will follow this story with great interest!

@sanny

Unfortunately I paid full price for my Rise 😔

The risk with fire seems to be far greater with home brew e bikes.

Does it? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-68197857

I’ve always assumed all this chat of ebike battery fires was those cheap Chinese ebikes, the Deliveroo moped type things? This came up on my news feed this morning and this ain’t no cheap ebike…can’t make out what it used to be but it “was” a proper ebike left on charge.

To be fair, it could’ve been the fact they were running mismatched front and rear tires that caused it to spontaneously combust.😂

I used to fly electric aircraft but stopped when the fun police got involved, but I think I have some experience of lithium based cells and batteries they were always charged in charging bags which are fireproof. Are e bike batteries charged in place or still installed? I assume most of the charge fires are faulty chargers rather that battery fault

To be fair, it could’ve been the fact they were running mismatched front and rear tires that caused it to spontaneously combust.

Or the fact it had two back wheels?

Yeah was about to point out that there’s more than the usual number of derailleurs there.

I think the burnt out e-bike is a canyon. You can tell by the seat stay chain stay layout and looks like a Shimano motor 😕

Have you got any news on fazua reliability/rebuildability ? (And future out of warranty support, ie will they be assisting/helping 3 party rebuilders with tech info, tools, part details etc) and what is in warranty motor/bits replacement is like (*do fazua have a uk distributor now ?)

From reading the internet it seems there may potentially be problems with the ring controller switch thing and motor which is a pity as in terms of weight, power and battery ‘use’,  it seems to be a very good mix.

@badlywireddog

To be fair, I have been using the bike for journeys that I would have used the car for previously. It is not the reason i got the bike to test but a happy additional benefit. I find that the bit of assistance on tap has encouraged me to jump on for casual trips to the shops or nipping out to visit friends. It is a very expensive shop bike but the point remains that it is getting used for that very purpose.

Fair enough. I guess you could get into all sort of convoluted environmental impact calculations, but this stuff really has no end. A while back, I went to a series of conferences that started off looking at innovation in the outdoors industry, but soon turned into a deep dive into sustainability. My main takeaway was that sustainability is very, very complicated at one level and the environmental costs in producing stuff aren’t always where you think they will be.

At the other end of the spectrum, it’s really simple. We need to make less stuff. We need to make the stuff we do make more durable and to keep on using it until it’s genuinely unusable. And then we need to repair it and keep on using it. And then, once it’s really stuffed, industry and the state needs to take responsibility for end-of-life outcomes and recycle as much as it as possible and ensure the rest isn’t simply burned or buried in a hole in the ground.

Anyway, we have a local community e-cargo bike, which I’ve occasionally used, and it’s brilliant for local shopping trips, deliveries etc. You could do a school run on it too. And yes, it’s sort of a car substitute. Even then, I don’t know where the sustainability balance really is. If you own ones and it replaces a car 100%, that seems like a no-brainer. If you also run a car though, you’re reducing emissions, congestion, particulates etc, but you’re adding in the environmental costs of producing the e-cargo bike in the first place in addition to those of the car, even if you use it less.

Really we need to change the way we live so we’re not so reliant on cars, but that’s a whole additional layer.

Anyway, have fun with the Pivot. I have a loaned 2017 Levo sat here, which I used as a long covid recovery tool. It’s fun, but for me at least, it’s not mountain biking as I enjoy it. Not really being able to pedal much at all for about 18 months means that now I can, I absolutely embrace and relish the feeling of my body working properly again. The Levo sort of robs me of that all over again, but in a very civilised, gentleman thief way, though it’s great for recovery rides on days when I’d otherwise be tempted not to bother.

It’ll be interesting to see what you make of it long term once you’re past the giggle-happy honeymoon phase ;-)

I was looking at the bit on the scale where Sanny is long-term reviewing an £11,250 e-mtb. I’m sure there are people using e-bikes to replace cars for local journeys, trips to the supermarket, commutes etc and that’s great, I’m just not entirely convinced that expensive e-mtbs are bought for those reasons or that riding one has any impact on car use either way.

They might do? If you have an e-bike of almost any kind in the household it’ll probably get used for errands now and then eventually, whether you bought it for that or not. That’s a great thing if/when it happens. People tend to have breakthrough moments with things like this where they have a change of view on value, use, etc.

Or the fact it had two back wheels?

Na, it’s one of those secret Whyte e-PRST-1 protos that no-one knows about…

it’ll probably get used for errands now and then eventually, whether you bought it for that or not.

I’d love to use my ebike for errands, but its bad enough leaving a cheapo pub bike locked up outside the spar for 20 minutes, let alone £5k-£7k worth of ebike, so it just doesnt happen.

Are there some solutions to this problem that I’m missing? or does everyone that uses their e mtb for errands live in a much nicer part of the world than I do.

They might do? If you have an e-bike of almost any kind in the household it’ll probably get used for errands now and then eventually, whether you bought it for that or not. That’s a great thing if/when it happens. People tend to have breakthrough moments with things like this, where they have a change of view on value, use, etc.

I guess so. I like the idea of a eureka ‘breakthrough moment’, where someone rides their £11k Pivot to a supermarket and a day later sells the car and buys an e-cargo bike.

It’d be nice if it were easier and safer to securely park a bike of any kind outside most of our car-centric retail infrastructure mind.

I like the idea of a eureka ‘breakthrough moment’, where someone rides their Pivot to a supermarket and a day later sells the car and buys an e-cargo bike.

Or more likely, someone buys a more average e-MTB and starts to ride it times/places that aren’t their normal MTB rides, realises how useful and enjoyable it can be for practical transport and buys a £1400 Carrera that can be locked up places and gets some real use from it as a car option. We’re still at a fairly early-adopter stage with e-bikes replacing car miles in the UK, people who already ride bikes are more likely to be the ones normalising it or telling others of the benefits.

Are there some solutions to this problem that I’m missing? or does everyone that uses their e mtb for errands live in a much nicer part of the world than I do.

I don’t live in a posh area and I take a decent mid-motor e-bike to the supermarket / town from time to time, see plenty of ebikes of all sorts locked up in the same places. It’s a concern though and why a lot of people don’t buy+use e-bikes, I wish we had better infrastructure to resolve it.

Irrespective of how nice the area is, taking the back lanes in either direction the nearest supermarket is 9 miles… i’m not doing that to go buy milk. My only shorter option is the A34 and i’m REALLY not doing that either.

Yeah, I live in one of the leafier suburbs in Manchester, and there’s no way I’d be using an £11K super-bike (e-powered or no) for errands. In fact both my bikes are more half that price, and I wouldn’t leave either of them chained up outside the shops either.

Irrespective of how nice the area is, taking the back lanes in either direction the nearest supermarket is 9 miles… i’m not doing that to go buy milk. My only shorter option is the A34 and i’m REALLY not doing that either.

Would you drive the 9 miles to buy milk?

Would you drive the 9 miles to buy milk?

Well, yes… or we wouldn’t have milk.

Admittedly if it was JUST milk, then i can get that in one of the village shops… but any more than that, requires driving to a Supermarket.

@badlywireddog

Totally agree. Some really good points you have made there.

@dumbbot

That picture really does not inspire confidence, does it? I would be loathe to be within a mile of a burning carbon bike as I have an uneasy sense of just how dangerous carbon can be when it heats up and there are bits of it flying about as dust. There is a lot of ongoing research into the potential dangers associated with nano fibres. New Civil Engineer ran a piece back in 2000 likening the dangers to asbestos. Given how hot a battery burns when it experiences thermal runaway, i have no desire to be the crash test dummy breathing in the smoke particles containing broken down carbon fibre.

@julians

The bike comes in the shop with me. No way does it get left outside locked up!

@towzer

Upgrade bikes have taken on servicing and warranty for Fazua here in the UK so that is a good thing in my book……

Cheers

Sanny

@weeksy

You could get your milk delivered by electric milk float to be properly old school? Saves you buying an electric bike to go to the shops! Ha! Ha!

2 Spesh ebikes in my integral garage and one EV sitting right outside it …

The bikes get charged in the garage, though only during the day and when the house is occupied.  A charge usually takes 3 hrs of so, so not hard to time for when we are in and would notice (garage has smoke and heat sensors).

The car charges on Intelligent Octopus while we sleep, at least 3 nights a week.  If it goes on fire while charging there would most definitely be damage to the house given that the back bumper is barely 2m away from the front of the house.

@julians

The bike comes in the shop with me. No way does it get left outside locked up!

Even then I reckon it’d make me a target for being mugged on the way out/in. I too (like nickc) live in a leafy suburb of manchester, but I’ve been on the receiving end of too many crimes ( 2 x car stolen off drive last year, 1 burglary, 1 car jacking, 1 mugging over the years) to trust riding it on the streets

I commute to Manchester by bike and getting mugged is a concern in the back of my mind. I avoid certain routes at night because of this. However, Manchester is the place where I seee the most people commuting and using e-bikes as everyday transport (including very expensive e-mtbs).  I certainly feel a lot safer when I’m closer to the centre and there are plenty more people around.