Ourmaninthenorth helped me find Cod.

next stop fuckyouville

You won’t be allowed to talk like that in church!

I doubt there would be need to, not that I go to church.

got this from the Dalai Lama’s Facebook feed(!) today.

The compassionate mind is very important. Fear, anger, jealousy are based on a self-centered attitude. By developing a sense of caring for others’ well-being your heart automatically opens and that brings transparency, straightforwardness and honesty, which leads to friendship. We are social animals, and one individual’s survival relies entirely on the rest of the community.

this should be a sticky for the forum.
About 12 years ago I was stuck in Delhi for a few days and found the DL was giving a 4hr lecture on practice in English, it was very interesting but in the Q&A a very adoring woman asked ‘what makes you happy’, cue world peace etc..he said ‘good food, good sleep’ laughed and left the stage. I got a lovely handshake too, and a scarf. One of my best weekends!

‘good food, good sleep’

Precisely. It echoes something I once heard whilst watching an interview with a scientist (who’s name I WISH I could remember) who was particularly scathing about superstition.

“Of course there’s no meaning in life, but so what? I’m looking forward to a damn good lunch”.

There you go…

ah the remote militant agnostic returns once again, I thought you’d got bored with this?

would you prefer that I believe in nothing? nothing unless it can be repeatedly proven 99% by controlled scientific test?
that I just follow your example? and have no Faith?

Why should I care what mistaken unproven and wrong believe system you take. Do I think it is better to live your live to a delusion in general no – that is not to say that some people don’t do great and good things as a result of this delusion.

can you please give all the money back, relinquish your right to tax free status, stay out of the education systems with your nasty half baked fairy stories and while your at it stay out of politics and keep away from people in white coats who are trying to cure stuff and make people better.

Sums up my attitude perfectly. When you are powerless and dont affect my life I will leave you alone to your beliefs.

MrNutt – Member

ah the remote militant agnostic returns once again, I thought you’d got bored with this?

No, no. Just with “talking” to you. Apart from this, of course, but you obviously need it underlining because you’re too dim/gripped by an insane desire to hurt somebody, to understand it if you only read it once.

“When you are powerless and dont affect my life I will leave you alone to your beliefs.”
I’m not wanting to be argumentative junkyard, but how does mr nutt affect your life? And what powers does he posess? I think we should be told, so we can either adore or avoid him, dependant on our viewpoints. 😉

Will no one think of the dinosaurs?

krag – Member

Will no one think of the dinosaurs?

😆 Outstanding. 😆

you meant religion/church etc not mr Nutt personally
Apologises for lack of clarity and I did not mean that to appear as if it was directed personally at Mr nutt

Hmmm the trouble with atheism is it’s bad pr and generally nihilistic perception – which means that, if you regard atheism as a religion, defined as

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe,

then it would mean any 😆 atheists should follow their own advice and stop affecting people lives with their negativity.

to quote the linked article

It is certainly arguable that atheism makes nihilism easier — for example, Nietzsche made the case that widespread atheism overthrew the only interpretation (theistic) of the world that was really popular. As a consequence, people got the impression that there wasn’t really any meaning out there at all and so lost hope.

can you please give all the money back, relinquish your right to tax free status, stay out of the education systems with your nasty half baked fairy stories and while your at it stay out of politics and keep away from people in white coats who are trying to cure stuff and make people better.

Give all the money back = I can’t say I’m all that comfortable with the concept of Tithe but I understand the provision for harder times, I agree vehicles such as the Vatican appear to drip with opulence whilst there is obviously many who could do better with the money than a few elect finely dressed romans.

relinquish your right to tax free status = I loathe taxation of any kind, voluntary donation through honest education would be a better although utopian option.

stay out of the education systems with your nasty half baked fairy stories = a lot of schools, colleges etc were founded by “the church” were they not? why not set up your own faith free school if you feel that passionate about it? oh yes, you don’t believe in anything.

and while your at it stay out of politics = agreed, religion and politics is an incestuous union that only breeds deformed, backward and dysfunctional children.

and keep away from people in white coats who are trying to cure stuff and make people better = yes all medical research should be conducted upon Atheist Island where all staff are sterilized of their beliefs prior to arrival.

so apart from it being an appallingly written statement, that sounds as though its been shouted through the school railings by a 15yr old and whilst it is flawed in may ways I tend to agree with the body of it.

But that doesn’t mean I am incapable of having a Faith. Nor does it mean I’m against Atheism.

DaRC_L, That article to which you have linked seems to suggest the exact opposite of “atheism=nihilism” to me.

Why do people think that a “meaningless” life is something to get depressed about? Doesn’t it free one from the constraints and demands of thinking that we MUST “believe” in something – usually a set of rule-based presuppositions based on unproven assertions about imaginary presences and so on?

“Of course life is meaningless, but so what…”?

Mmmm – nice cup of tea coming up.

krag – Member

Will no one think of the dinosaurs?

Mr Woppit – Member

Outstanding.

what is funnier Woppit, and what you don’t realize is, Krag & I are good mates & share a flat, this was something that we were laughing about this morning.

Also you’ll see his comment was humorous, Intelligent and he would say it to my face without any fear of reprisal, where as you, well, its clear to all what kind of person you are.

Mr Woppit – Member
DaRC_L, That article to which you have linked seems to suggest the exact opposite of “atheism=nihilism” to me.

Why do people think that a “meaningless” life is something to get depressed about? Doesn’t it free one from the constraints and demands of thinking that we MUST “believe” in something – usually a set of rule-based presuppositions based on unproven assertions about imaginary presences and so on?

“Of course life is meaningless, but so what…”?

Mmmm – nice cup of tea coming up.

Do you think people MUST “believe” in something? is that why you’re so hateful?

I suppose he feels superior in needing nothing to believe in.

PS: … Yorkshire’s finest, of course.

ooOOoo – Member

I suppose he feels superior in needing nothing to believe in.

Interesting, why do you think that I feel “superior”? I haven’t suggested it…

I’m over here, by the way.

why did me quoting stoner get that reaction but no one commented when he first put it up?

unlike whoppit I am going and I will stay gone as it has become the bun fight it was always destined to become.
I will leave you to it
Good luck on your journey Mr Nutt I hope it leads to a place you are happy….be nice if it was also rationally verifiable 😆
IGMC

If any of you do know god or have any sway with the big guy, can you please get him to strike me down before I am compelled to hit refresh on this train wreck of a thread.

Ta.

See you, junk. Perhaps if Drac picks up on the discussion about nihilism it might go somewhere…

laters Junkyard, and cheers, me too.

personally I’m more of one for transrationalism as a singularity 😉

its good to be nice, but it’s nicer to be good. 😀

Glad to see the British spirit is still riding high and that a nice cup of tea can solve all the worlds problems 🙂

But I’m just suggesting that perhaps people should be allowed to keep their beliefs and whilst some might like Yorkshire teabags others might like a proper pot with Lapsang souchong tea leaves or even a complicated tea ceremony but they are all ways to make a great cup of tea.

3, 2, 1….

spot on DaRC_L mines ether whatever’s in the pot or earl grey with lemon & gin.

Ah! Well, I don’t think anybody should be in a position of allowing or not allowing belief. People are entitled to believe what they like.

However, just like tea preferences, there’s no reason why it can’t be discussed, is there? The pitch and direction of the discussion will ebb and flow of course, whilst at the same time being essentially, meaningless. Isn’t it?

8)

clearly you don’t understand the difference between these two similar looking words:

discussion: an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate.

disagreeable: contrary to one’s taste or liking; unpleasant; offensive; repugnant. unpleasant in manner or nature; unamiable:

as you have been a hell of a lot closer to the latter than the former, but then I guess that was your aim, given your previous form.

My problem here is that a common criticism of religion is that there is a lack of evidence or understanding. Yet, those hwo criticise it also fail to recognise that their lack of understanding in any number of scientific concepts reduces their so called rationalism to a set of beliefs. To say that this happens ‘because of evolution’ or ‘because of gravity’ without being able to understand how the causal mechanisms in those processes result in the observed outcomes is just as much ‘faith’ based as saying ‘because of God’.

I am that 15 year old!

I loathe taxation of any kind, voluntary donation through honest education would be a better although utopian option.

Thats all well and good however we have a democratically elected govt and its a bit difficult to simply withraw from it, unless you are an approved UK religion of course.

a lot of schools, colleges etc were founded by “the church” were they not? why not set up your own faith free school if you feel that passionate about it? oh yes, you don’t believe in anything.

The church did lots of things which we now agree are innapropriate, whether they set them up to improve access to young children or not the fact remains that they are state funded and as such should educate children nor abuse and indoctrinate them.

and keep away from people in white coats who are trying to cure stuff and make people better = yes all medical research should be conducted upon Atheist Island where all staff are sterilized of their beliefs prior to arrival.

Are you 15?

But that doesn’t mean I am incapable of having a Faith

Who said it did?

My problem here is that a common criticism of religion is that there is a lack of evidence or understanding. Yet, those hwo criticise it also fail to recognise that their lack of understanding in any number of scientific concepts reduces their so called rationalism to a set of beliefs. To say that this happens ‘because of evolution’ or ‘because of gravity’ without being able to understand how the causal mechanisms in those processes result in the observed outcomes is just as much ‘faith’ based as saying ‘because of God’.

No its not.

CharlieMungus – Member

My problem here is that a common criticism of religion is that there is a lack of evidence or understanding. Yet, those hwo criticise it also fail to recognise that their lack of understanding in any number of scientific concepts reduces their so called rationalism to a set of beliefs.

That’s a good point. However, I think that the evidence (that there hqas been theoretical peer-group reviews, following rational experiment to obtain sound results etc.) suggests that the probability of finding one’s “belief” to be confirmed, is very high.

This is opposed of course, to the probability that the superstitious view is correct, which is so low as to be undetectable as a measurement…

PS: Fortunately, there are websites and books available that will explain these ideas in “layman’s” terms so that it doesn’t need to be a “belief”.

TV too – smiley ex-TOTP keyboardist and professor Brian Cox, for instance…

Essentially I think that this thread pretty much sums up why the world and humanity has issues, specifically with Religion.

In summary: People have opposing view’s and no-one is willing to give ground, in the first instance this is because they think their opinion is correct and seek to defend it but ultimately opinions become irrelevant and it ends up being about pride. Everyone involved gets emotional about it because there is a perception that ‘being right’ somehow inflates ego and/or status and they therefore do what all emotionally driven beings do – fight about it, uncontrollably. That is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from the last 13 pages of posts and pretty much man’s attempt to put themselves at the centre of things (pride) throughout history. Clearly this doesn’t work. We have wars with one another, we abuse and defile one another and ultimately descend into chaos. Basically, humans are crap at being in control but are absolutely desperate to seen to be. Why are we crap at it? Well in my opinion it’s because we’re not supposed to be. That’s not the way we were designed. Instead, we were designed to be in relationship with the one who made us, loves us and knows us best. God.

The other issue I have with the God debate, which is true for the way it’s presented here, is that it’s always one-sided. No-one ever talks about the Devil and his role in all this. To me, the greatest trick the Devil has pulled off is to convince people that he doesn’t exist (case in point with this discussion I would suggest). Moreover that God is instead responsible for everything bad that occurs in the world. This simply isn’t the case. The Devil has as his purpose the demise of God’s kingdom. If I was to try and bring down a kingdom I would certainly try and attribute vile things to that Kingdom, especially when it is not responsible for them. I would also confuse the situation by creating very similar Kingdom’s, so that the True Kingdom lost much of its appeal. Isn’t that what’s going on here with religion? If I was to be asked “if God loves us then why do people die before their time from cancer, murder, drink driving or any other tragic event?” I would certainly look to the Devil just as much I would God and I would also suggest that it is primarily down to mans ‘pride’ and desire to be in control than it is about God’s failure to love us. With this in mind, what sort of loving God would give us free will only to ignore it when the chips were down, take control over our lives, when we’ve not asked him to nor believe he even exists and enforce on us things which we didn’t ask him to do? You could say “isn’t that what a responsible parent would do? and yes you’d have a point put better still shouldn’t the parent be teaching the child how to make choices that will benefit them – to do this we need to be in relationship with our parents not suggesting they don’t exist or if they do exist don’t love us.

Don’t get me wrong I find it equally hard to understand how it all works. Why some people who I/we pray for get healed and others don’t. We are of course assuming that being here on earth is our ‘best option’ (which I’m hoping isn’t the case otherwise Heaven won’t meet expectations) instead of accepting that maybe for some being in Heaven is a better option but even so it’s a tough one to take.

Ultimately, trying to argue someone into relationship with God is futile – that’s not what I’m trying to do here at all. Instead, faith is a gift free to us from God that is open to everyone but like every gift it is up to the individual whether they choose to accept it or not. My question would be this ‘What have you got to loose?” The world is already an unfair, tough place to live and if those ‘God botherers’ are even somewhere close to hitting the mark then Hell ain’t going to be much better either. BUT way beyond all that ‘why not allow yourself to explore the notion that the God who created you and who loves you might actually want to be in relationship with you so that all the stuff you struggle with in this unfair world, he can help you deal with’ until such a time that you die and then go to spend eternity in the place that we were actually designed to reside, under His protection, in His presence and no doubt pinning it down the best singletrack he’s ever created, without arm pump!

Just my thoughts on the matter – fire at will!

That’s not the way we were designed.

You were doing quite well up to there… 😐

My problem here is that a common criticism of religion is that there is a lack of evidence or understanding. Yet, those hwo criticise it also fail to recognise that their lack of understanding in any number of scientific concepts reduces their so called rationalism to a set of beliefs. To say that this happens ‘because of evolution’ or ‘because of gravity’ without being able to understand how the causal mechanisms in those processes result in the observed outcomes is just as much ‘faith’ based as saying ‘because of God’.

Unfortunately Charlie, someone else has already said this in a much more accessible way;

‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic’

Arthur C Clarke.

Plus, gravity and evolution are rather quiet on the stoning of homosexuals, and they both continue to work, even on the Sabbath…

‘why not allow yourself to explore the notion that the God who created you and who loves you might actually want to be in relationship with you so that all the stuff you struggle with in this unfair world, he can help you deal with’ until such a time that you die and then go to spend eternity in the place that we were actually designed to reside, under His protection,

Because I don’t believe it.

Basically, humans are crap at being in control but are absolutely desperate to seen to be. Why are we crap at it? Well in my opinion it’s because we’re not supposed to be. That’s not the way we were designed. Instead, we were designed to be in relationship with the one who made us, loves us and knows us best. God

Which god though?
The Greeks use to have loads, the Hindu’s still have plenty, where do they fit in?

Yes come on, let’s find some common ground; which gods do you not believe in?

‘why not allow yourself to explore the notion that the God who created you and who loves you might actually want to be in relationship with you so that all the stuff you struggle with in this unfair world, he can help you deal with’ until such a time that you die and then go to spend eternity in the place that we were actually designed to reside, under His protection,

Because I don’t believe it.

lol lol and thrice lol 😆

that would look great on the back of a Tshirt