I had no idea until someone told me this morning that some schools are actually having some of the traditional relationships in nativity plays portrayed as same sex, or even same non-sex gender neutral 'ze' thingys.
Not really fussed either way but it just never occurred to me that it went on at such a young age.
I suppose there will always be kids that start having thoughts that they may not fit the usual M/F stereotype at quite a young age, so probably a good thing in the long run.
We've always had cross-dressing in the theatre, and in school productions at any age through school. If there's anywhere that needs LTBGQZStuff pushed into/over it, school drama has got to be down the list.
Especially in a story about 3 men travelling together, shepherds, non-consensual impregnation and non-biological parenting.
I'm a man trapped in a donkey's body.
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Im struggling to see (in my backward ways) why schools are doing this? whats wrong with the current stereotype of the story? (trying not going into whether its all nonsense or not)
I'm a man trapped in a donkey's body.
I can't see the picture here at work but I'm going to suggest you shoulda used lube 🙂
It's an interesting one. It depends on how you view the nativity play - a lot of schools use it as the yearly chance to just tell any old story, working in a way to get all the kids involved.
Also, a trans friend of mine does quite a lot of work visiting primary schools and talking about gender identity - she says she gets an amazing response because the primary-school-age kids are generally totally cool about it, especially when an actual trans person talks to them and answers their questions. She says it's always their older siblings and their parents who get weird about it.
I think that's the answer. I want my son to grow up accepting people for how they identify themselves. I don't want to be the dinosaur who gets grumpy because the world's changing and I don't understand it... although it will take me a while to get the whole gender-neutral thing and use gender-neutral pronouns, because I've had 39 years of not doing so.
I had no idea until some bloke* posted on the internet that someone told him this morning that some schools are actually having some of the traditional relationships in nativity plays portrayed as same sex, or even same non-sex gender neutral 'ze' thingys.
I can see how these things start. 8)
*I'm making a guess over this
[i]I'm a man trapped in a donkey's body.[/i] Strangely enough I'm a donkey trapped in man's body!
My daughter is playing one of the three wise men in her nursery nativity. Except, she's a girl so she's playing a "wise person" instead. Because obviously it would be sexist and misogynistic to have wise men. Unless of course you're depicting something that supposedly happened in the middle east 2000 years ago.
2000 years ago in a desert land very far away a woman is impregnated by god (who is an omnipotent non corporeal presence, an old cloud dwelling beardy guy and his own offspring at the same time), goes on a donkey ride with her remarkably naive husband, has to give birth in a squalid animal stable, is presented with gifts of great wealth by scholars, animal husbanders and hereditary rulers who were led there to the exact location and time by an astronomical phenomenon many 100s of 1000s of miles above their heads. Overseen by some supernatural aaryan looking avian human hybrids with long trumpets.
Justifying us all to get a week off work and wait for a fat crimson german guy to squeeze down our chimneys, wear comedy jumpers to parties full of people we hate, blow 1000s of quid on crap we dont need, decorate our homes in pagan paraphanallia and watch James Bond on TV.
Xmas is a writhing, oiled up, strobe lit, orgy of religions, cultures and capitalism
If Jesus has 2 mommies I cant see it making much difference to anyone
not that I believe the annual bollox about [s]jews[/s], [s]muslims[/s], [s]gays[/s], genderfluid yoghurt knitters killing xmas that Britain First spread on facebook
- If it really bothers you Id suggest you need to go for a bike ride or scoff a mince pie
Roter Stern - Member
I'm a man trapped in a donkey's body. Strangely enough I'm a donkey trapped in man's body!
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In my sons school we have a 9 year old child born female who is now a boy. Eye opener for me, but these realizations can happen very early on & it can be detrimental if suppressed. Life goes on.
Let me guess - eye opener for you, mostly "meh" for the kids?
go for a bike ride
Good idea . .
Kids are a [i]tabula rasa[/i]. Start 'em early. Then when they're forty and it's time for them to be told that they're bigots, the next generation will have to work harder to find a stick to beat them with.
Let me guess - eye opener for you, mostly "meh" for the kids?
Absolutely correct.
Wheres clause 28 gone,
Thankfully every day is a day further from those idiots ideas.
LGBT people in "taking small steps towards being accepted by wider society rather than being sidelined and ridiculed" horror.
Thankfully every day is a day further from those idiots ideas.
We must be vigilant, the people of hate are smelling blood.
I had no idea until someone told me this morning that they read any old bull shit on facebook as fact
FIFY
When I started secondary school in 76 I always remember the teacher saying that you were only permitted stud earrings. "Obviously I'm only talking to the girls unless you are queer." That was a lady teacher as well.
things had moved on by the 80's as i only got asked if i was gay by a teacher when i pierced the "wrong" ear
I forget which one it was now was the "gay" one
As above i may struggle with ze* and all that but life is progress and i want to live in a world were LGBT folk get treated as well and have the same opportunities as this white fella gets
I know a person who wishes me to use this so I did but i dont in general
I dont know that many folk who dont accept their gender as a label whatever their sexuality
A few years ago now my daughter played Joseph! At her request too.
watch James Bond on TV
And it better be a Roger Moore Bond.
I've heard that some girls are playing with Lego these days. And not just the shit ones where they can make juice bars and stuff.
It's PC gone mad I tell you. They'll be letting them get degrees next.
They'll be letting them get degrees next.
and some of them wear trousers! They'll be voting next, it's never ending let me tell you...
You can't even say you're English these days without getting locked up.
someone told me this morning that some schools
Sounds like a cast iron reliable source to me.
Kimbers.... Nicely put.
[quote=miketually ]You can't even say you're English these days without getting locked up.
😆
I think he meant knocked up.
Can't say I totally agree. Who cares who plays the parts? Largely irrelevant but buggering about with a traditional story to fit modern views is just plain stupid. The origins of the story has wise men I believe and thus cannot be changed. Wise persons! Crap and nonsense! Much the same as the story that popped up on the radio about Guy Gibson's dog not being called **** any more in some modern version of the story.
Of course, in our modern day where any little variation on the old ways is seen as acceptable and everyone is allowed their own views, I won't be allowed mine will I?
The origins of the story has wise men I believe and thus cannot be changed.
Of course it can. Compare Chris Nolan's Batman to the 60s TV show.
(The nativity origins probably have their roots in some pagan folklore or other anyway, so may well have already been changed considerably.)
Of course, in our modern day where any little variation on the old ways is seen as acceptable and everyone is allowed their own views, I won't be allowed mine will I?
You're allowed whatever views you like, just as I'm allowed to challenge them when they're wrong. (-:
It's a miracle! Daddy Mary is pregnant
Books and films?
I agree - they are a product of their time.
Don't change them, they show how far we've come.
Nativity plays are different.
Mess about with them all you like, include everyone who wants to be included.
They're only kids, I reckon we can leave questions about biblical revisionism for a few years yet.
The origins of the story has wise men I believe and thus cannot be changed.
I've seen Nativity plays that seem to suggest otherwise.
This is really going to mess things up for Boney M.
White boy in the ring?
No doubt dreamt up by the Safe Space 'snow flake' generation of teaching stock, so thankfully just a blip. Nobody wants LGBT hitler youth indoctrination.
As Joseph had no part in the conception I guess he could be replaced in the story fairly conveniently.
I don't think that people should worry too much about this. If they do, they should probably focus in on girls always playing angels. Blatant discrimination by someone somewhere there I tell you.
[quote=enfht ]No doubt dreamt up by the Safe Space 'snow flake' generation of teaching stock, so thankfully just a blip. Nobody wants LGBT hitler youth indoctrination.
your posts are a brilliant insight into your inner turmoil with modern life. Very funny post. 😆
It's a miracle! Daddy Mary is pregnant
😀
Local primary had to cancel their play as the paper found out that they wanted to mention Jesus, the Bible and sing Away in a Manger. Fortunately the kids were saved and all is well.
LGBT secular nativity plays sound like vegetarian sausages - what's the point? Stick to plain vegetarian food...
White boy in the ring?
Josephs adopted child of indeterminate gender from a partners previous relationship just doesn't fit the tune
Most of the kids in British nativity plays will be white, despite all the characters being black.
Shocking revisionism!
I've just shown this thread to my wife, who has informed me that our 3 year old grand daughter is playing Frosty the Snowman in this year's nativity play.
🙂
Local primary had to cancel their play as the paper found out that they wanted to mention Jesus, the Bible and sing Away in a Manger.
No they didn't.
Junky (aka Snowflake) are you serious... ain't my inner turmoil buddy.
My boy is a shepherd ,with a line don't you know.
His costume is ,in actual fact ,a dress.
In a school nativity play i was one of the 3 wise men, how misguided they where.
In a school nativity play i was one of the 3 wise men, how misguided they [b]where[/b].
So we see. (-:
Just wait a few years until they have to write in Mary being able to pick the sex of her baby.
That's going to [i]really[/i] **** things up!
My 6 year old came home from school the other day.... "we all believe in Jesus dont we" "err no".
Few months ago it was "I know how babies are made" "really, how". "When a man and a women love each other and get married...." "errrr you do realise your mum and I arent married dont you? "WHAT?"
err.. acting?
pretty sure mine weren't too scarred by being sheep, donkeys, ninja turtles, skeletons or mountaineers in their christmas plays. Then again, it would be nice to have something to blame...
No they didn't.
Correct, I was joking, they never planned to mention Jesus. That would have made national news.
they never planned to mention Jesus. That would have made national news.
Weird, because Jesus has been mentioned in every primary school Christmas performance that I've attended, every year, for the last ten years.
It hasn't once made the news, and the atheist, Hindu and Muslim parents in the audience didn't burn a Bible or anything.
😀
"didn't burn a Bible or anything" - have you seen how hot you have to get a book before it'll burn? They should make a book or a film about it.
Who cares who plays the parts? Largely irrelevant but buggering about with a traditional story to fit modern views is just plain stupid. The origins of the story has wise men I believe and thus cannot be changed. Wise persons! Crap and nonsense
hahaha, you jest surely
you musnt mess with the story of a completely made up tale that has been rehashed countless times over history to suit the agenda of the storyteller
Kimbers jr was a paige to a wise man in the whoopsy-daisy angels nativity this very morning, im not sure there were paiges in the nativity I recall- heresey!!
tbh I wasnt really paying attention to the plot, the gender of the characters or its adherence to the official matsscm approved version of the nativity, it was just a lot of fun and my son just kept grinning and waving at me, which I liked
Seriously what's the problem, much better kids have an idea about the real world rather than emerge from school as shell shocked and confused teenagers who have been told everything that isn't man/woman married before kissing etc isn't normal. Might lead. To some more open minded people rather than those complaining about pc gawn mad for no reason other than their fear of change. As pointed out on another thread hatred and shunning of groups of people going through exceptionally tough times with little or know support or understanding and teaching other kids they are wrong is leading to suicide. Is that the price you want to pay to indoctrinate kids into a made up version of a vague religious event where we have already replaced all the characters with good white people?
As a teacher who has had to put together Christmas plays and carol concerts... we really don't put a huge amount of thought in to it. Yes we want to do a good job, yes we want to do something that's as close to entertaining as we can manage, but do we go out of our way to be thought provoking or to make a statement... not usually!
Regardless of my personal beliefs that 2000 years on the nativity story would probably end up on Jeremy Kyle, the children on the whole really enjoy the story and on the whole we stick to the traditional version of it. That doesn't mean to say that a girl won't be one of the wise men etc... we generally just pick the children who are less likely to have a melt down in front of 200 parents*, or who will be heard over the clicking of fake camera sounds, babies crying and chairs scraping.
*that said I worked really hard with the quietest boy in my class to get his confidence and voice volume to a level that meant he could welcome and introduce everyone to our concert this year.
It would probably be a great opportuinity to invite some refugees from the region in to give context about how hard that sort of journey is especially in an occupied country/area.
Mike - no invite needed, they're our pupils/parents of our pupils. We haven't tried tapping in to their experiences yet though as some of them are pretty harrowing.