These brakes, their promotion, and purchase are a reflection of everything that’s wrong with the world nowadays.

(said not entirely in jest)

The only reason I’m on Shimano is because I haven’t paid more than 120 quid for F&R and I have XT, SLX and Deore. The Deores were more like 70 or 80 quid.

Can you buy the Lewis levers separately?

Seems to be the way of the world now…plenty folk like the fancy stuff but don’t like the prices so China is a good place to go to get pretty similar stuff. If you are riding your bike then people aren’t going to see what the exact branding is unless you stop and they get a good look.

MTB is a massive market now – been years and years since it was done by folk who had full respect for the great outdoors, it is now awash with the full range of humans and there are plenty of differing levels of respect amongst us all these days. Plenty will be happy to pay less for kit, plenty will prefer to buy the ‘real’ stuff…but there are plenty of companies offering something for a lot of people at a price the people are willing to pay.

Our Western Consumerism culture has long been a seriously bad thing…it is now well established in the MTB world as well.

I’d give those brakes a shot just to see how they are, but as I’m quite happy with my current brakes, I wouldn’t be looking to buy them as I’m not in the market for new brakes. Many others will be keen on the looks and price.

 every single pair I’ve owned has failed eventually.

While obviously everybody’s experience is their own, I’ve never had any problems with any brake I’ve ever used from Hope, Shimano, or SRAM. They’ve only ever been of variable braking ability rather than suffer from any sort of quality control issue.

Our Western Consumerism culture has long been a seriously bad thing…it is now well established in the MTB world as well.

The real change has been global outsourcing of manufacture to bring us cheaper stuff (which is not the same as getting more for less). Bikes were going that way, carried by sourcing patterns generally before MTB came along.

Not that long ago a local frame shop was the place to get a nice bike and being all-steel and pretty common standards + specs they’d often see 10-15 years or more of use. The parts were Italian or French. Few are prepared to pay for locally-made goods now though. In the middle ground there are brands who make good stuff in quality factories in Asia, those brands often end up squeezed or unprofitable. At the extreme end we have the lookalike market on alibaba, for cheap versions of anything that was once innovative from a small brand who made their own stuff. Not far off a version of Shein for bike or outdoor kit. But I see both extremes getting attention, there’s a great custom and handmade scene for people who have different views on value.

Not that long ago a local frame shop was the place to get a nice bike and being all-steel and pretty common standards + specs they’d often see 10-15 years or more of use

Going a little off-topic maybe, but I’m starting to think like this again now.

Dunno if it’s my age, or MTB geometry/standards reaching a point of maturity (or probably both) – but I’m looking at some of my current bikes as lasting me that long.

As “improvements” become more about electronics (no thanks), I’m happy to stick with midrange mechanical drivetrains, good suspension and midrange Shimano brakes. That’s probably the hi-lo thing you mentioned in a previous post?

Plenty of prejudice and assumptions about China in this thread. Not a good look, particularly when taking the moral high ground.

I get that the Chinese can manufacture stuff to the same high quality that other countries can, but in my experience cheap biking stuff from there seems to suffer from a lack of quality control.  So you might get a perfectly machined pair of brakes from manufacturer X but the next guy might get the braking equivalent of a C reg Ford Fiesta built on a Friday afternoon. 

Plenty of prejudice and assumptions about China in this thread. Not a good look, particularly when taking the moral high ground.

Let’s just unpick this.

Why do you think they can offer a similar product for less?

I have my own ideas but I’d like to hear yours first.

Let’s just unpick this.

Why do you think they can offer a similar product for less?

I have my own ideas but I’d like to hear yours first.

better or worse than shimano?

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shimano-factory-conditions-akin-to-modern-slavery-investigation-reveals/

i just looked these up on aliexpress. $533 canadian per end. twice the price of formula cura 4, and they haven’t even copied the originals correctly!

Funnily enough a mate who works for a couple of bike companies turned up on his Banshee Prime with a set of these this morning. Lots of car park scrutiny.

Two hours later I asked how they went and he seemed to think they were ok. I commented that they didn’t seem to slow him down much…erm.

Well I took the plunge as I wanted to see for myself what these were like and I can report back that they are exceptionally high quality.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C01V9yOLTY7/?igshid=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ==

Lever feel is amazing. It runs on 4 bearings.

Let’s get this right, they are absolutely nothing like the clarkes brakes. They couldn’t be further apart.

So far so good, heaps of power, great lever feel. I haven’t tried tricks stuff but these appear to fix some of the niggles they have.

Bite point adjustment.

Better bleed port screw location

They also make a ti version which has a 3rd lever position adjustment and is more powerful.

These brakes shouldn’t be dismissed because they are made in China, isn’t Shimano made in China, Malaysia and Japan. It would be kind of like saying I’m not buying that bike frame because it’s made in Taiwan.

My objection isn’t where they are made, it’s that they are deliberate copies, for whatever reason. You can say that they have innovated, but without the original idea in the first place they would be nowhere. Had they done all the work Trickstuff had in order for them to copy and ‘innovate’, these brakes would be a lot more expensive. I’m not supporting that.

And the fact you spent x£ more to have the truckstuff brakes when you could have superior performance and levers (allegedly) for less 🙈

I suppose the trouble with being an early adopter is that this always happens to a degree and your extravagant purchase suddenly looks less attractive for £/performance. 

I agree it’s not right but (sh)it happens in many industries. 

I just don’t get this – if someone has the discretionary spend to be buying ~£300 brakes on what is a likely a hobby why the **** would you buy Chinese rip off tat when you could buy Hope?

The Lewis brakes aren’t supporting the people in Yorkshire making them, or the person who services the CNC machine, or anyone else UK based involved in the manufacturing of them, picture your £300 trickling down through various UK people and supply lines Vs sending your money direct to China.

I’m not a Farage/DM reader or a British Leyland trade union representative but the amount of people jizzing themselves over these not exactly cheap brakes annoys me.

And the fact you spent x£ more to have the truckstuff brakes when you could have superior performance and levers (allegedly) for less 🙈

Doesn’t bother me. Tech 4 V4s are on a par with, and in some ways better than, the Trickstuffs for around half the price and not much more than the Lewis’. But aren’t copies.

I’ve had a set of Maximas for almost 5 years now, what was better and cheaper at the time?

I suppose the trouble with being an early adopter is that this always happens to a degree and your extravagant purchase suddenly looks less attractive for £/performance.

Modern sports cars are faster and lots cheaper than old F1 cars, doesn’t make them any less desirable.

Despite them copying the design, it’s still taken them 6/7 years to bring a product to market. As much as I whinged about how long the TS ones took to arrive, it’s not that bad. What Lewis have done is added complexity/adjustment into something with very fine tolerances, be interesting to see how that lasts over time.

RE: RustyNissanPrairie

Absolute nail on the head here. For an extra £100ish over the Lewis brakes you can have U.K. support, guaranteed parts for the next 5 years at least and supporting U.K. jobs innovation and manufacturing.

Except it isn’t even an extra £100, because the residual value of Hopes is so strong that you’ll be able to sell them used in 5 years for £150-200. The Lewis brakes won’t hold their value in anywhere near the same way.

The Lewis brakes aren’t supporting the people in Yorkshire making them

Contentious assertion 😉

Although historically Barnoldswick may have been in the West Riding, making that statement out aloud anywhere near the Hope factory these days is fighting talk. I used to work up the road in Barrowford but lived in Settle at the time and was given a rough time at the border crossing… “comin over ere, nicking our jobs…”

Mind you, I live in the Yorkshire Dales National Park, in Cumbria (now technically Westmorland) and have a Lancaster postcode so these things can be confusing.

Off to eat a butter pie for me breakfast 😋 

Can’t argue with either side here, but I do find it odd people saying for an extra hundred… people are spending what they want/can… saying for an extra hundred is the issue for me as in a number of cases, that isn’t possible…if people are buying whatever, it is because they’ve decided the want/need/can afford it.

Bike bits are extortionate anyway, but many people seem happy to be paying those prices so bike parts don’t get cheaper…time/skill/effort all costs, but the cost to the punter doesn’t always stack up.

I’m not supporting ripping off someone else’s work, but this seems a standard thing in China and we (western consumers) generally seem ok with it as it is a more affordable price. Doesn’t help the local guy, but as we seem to be a massive consumerism market, that doesn’t tend to count unfortunately for many people.

If you’re happy to spend £250+ / whatever the Lewis brakes cost then your happily paying the mortgage / feeding the kids you might as well spend the extra on Hope at that point

Oh yeah – sorry, Barnoldswick = Lancashire! I was thinking of Orange.

At somewhere like Hope, R&D means Research and Development, not Ripoff and Deny…
Let’s be honest, if you want perfectly serviceable brakes there are lots of cheaper options – once you are into the marginal gains territory I personally factor in things like being an actual inventor/developer, and being an excellent UK employer in my choices.
Britain has a history of being hugely inventive and seeing the financial payback going to borderline counterfeiters. The only people who can combat that are the consumers who make choices beyond £££
I have seen products I developed shamelessly ripped off, and the effect that has on jobs -people- in the UK. There’s more to our spending decisions than ‘want shiny and cheap(er)’. Hope is an example of a company that both develops, designs and makes excellent products – and supports quality UK jobs directly and indirectly. Why would you not support that sort of company if you can afford to? And if you want some blingy brakes for your £5k or more mountain bike, making a choice to support blatant copiers in order to (now) save a few quid – well that doesn’t sit right with me. Purchasing decisions have consequences beyond the instant retail gratification from getting something on the cheap. Also, try ringing some far east bling merchants for advice, support or spare parts and see how far you get…

x2 on all above posts. Except BRS. As a small business I’m honestly surprised you would be so cool with folk ripping off other folks work and offshoring it.

[RustyNissanPrairie]

RustyNissanPrairie

Full Member

I just don’t get this – if someone has the discretionary spend to be buying ~£300 brakes on what is a likely a hobby why the **** would you buy Chinese rip off tat when you could buy Hope?

The Lewis brakes aren’t supporting the people in Yorkshire making them, or the person who services the CNC machine, or anyone else UK based involved in the manufacturing of them, picture your £300 trickling down through various UK people and supply lines Vs sending your money direct to China.

I’m not a Farage/DM reader or a British Leyland trade union representative but the amount of people jizzing themselves over these not exactly cheap brakes annoys me

I had exactly this dilemma. I wanted Hope Tech 4 V4. I wanted to keep the money in this country, however i fit a lot of the new Hope Tech 4 brakes and unfortunately I’m not a big fan. I don’t like the lever feel at all.

I’ve seen a few quality control issues that have led to the lever coming all the way back to the bars and requiring warranty. That was really disappointing for me coming from Hope. I’ve had Hope for 25 years.

I’ve got loads of shimano brakes and love the saint feel, however I just wanted to try something different.

With the current Hopes not really being up to scratch, it made me try these Lewis brake. They have been absolutely fantastic so far.

I just don’t get this – if someone has the discretionary spend to be buying ~£300 brakes on what is a likely a hobby why the **** would you buy Chinese rip off tat when you could buy Hope?

The Lewis brakes aren’t supporting the people in Yorkshire making them, or the person who services the CNC machine, or anyone else UK based involved in the manufacturing of them, picture your £300 trickling down through various UK people and supply lines Vs sending your money direct to China.

I’m not a Farage/DM reader or a British Leyland trade union representative but the amount of people jizzing themselves over these not exactly cheap brakes annoys me

I had exactly this dilemma. I wanted Hope Tech 4 V4. I wanted to keep the money in this country, however i fit a lot of the new Hope Tech 4 brakes and unfortunately I’m not a big fan. I don’t like the lever feel at all.

I’ve seen a few quality control issues that have led to the lever coming all the way back to the bars and requiring warranty. That was really disappointing for me coming from Hope. I’ve had Hope for 25 years.

fit a lot of the new Hope Tech 4 brakes and unfortunately I’m not a big fan. I don’t like the lever feel at all.

I’ve got loads of shimano brakes and love the saint feel

You cant compare the two. Hopes have modulation, saints have a lever operated on button. Now if you prefer the Shimano feel you’ll always hate Hope.
I’ve pretty much always had hope, except on time when I bought a bike with Saints. Saints have the obvious power, but I skidded a lot on them, and with Hopes I’ve never had that, even at the last second braking at speed where you really have to stop and starting to pull hard on the levers.
Currently I’ve T4 V4 on the Ebike and while its got the spongy feel, when it comes down to it the power is certainly there.
Hopes are more about scrubbing off speed rather then instant stopping power that in truth leaves you nowhere to go. So I’d rather have options when braking and the on/off the likes of saints offer.

They have been absolutely fantastic so far.

How long have you had them? You were only asking about them just over a week ago?

Weird going for an unknown such as Lewis while being concerned that a company that have been in the game for so long had a few issues with the Tech4. Which they went on to sort out with their excellent customer service.
Sure it’s nice when things just work and don’t need any more input from the manufacturer, but it’s good to know that Hope will look after it’s customers, with relative ease.

How long have you had them? You were only asking about them just over a week ago?

I got them a couple of days after I posted on here. I’ve been out on the bike most days and they’ve been great so far. They feel perfect to me.

Amazing lever feel, good combination of modulation and power. Amazing lever adjustment including bite point.

I know it’s early days and time will tell how long they last. They do feel very good quality so hopefully they’ll last a while.

Weird going for an unknown such as Lewis while being concerned that a company that have been in the game for so long had a few issues with the Tech4. Which they went on to sort out with their excellent customer service.

Sure it’s nice when things just work and don’t need any more input from the manufacturer, but it’s good to know that Hope will look after it’s customers, with relative ease.

Not really weird. I know I don’t like the Hopes so why would I buy them?

Trust me, I’d have rather given my money to Hope than anyone but I just can’t get on with them.

What is concerning is they’ve been in the game so long, and brought out the tech 4 with issues. Surely after all these years they should have perfected it, not be releasing products with issues.

I’ve got about 4 sets of old hopes on other bikes and probably about 10 of their wheels sets so I support Hope good enough, just can’t get on with their new brakes.

Yes the lewis were a bit of a gamble. I was only looking for a new set of brakes because my 3 year old sram codes were giving up. I did as much research on these Lewis brakes and found people who had used them at Ard Rock in July, then came across wolfpack adventures on YouTube (Alex, who looks a high standard rider) and he really rates them. He did an urban DH on them. He’s hardly going to risk it if they are sh1t.

Im not sure why these brakes are getting so much hate, especially as it looks like they are a great product. I know it’s early days, but I’d say they are the best brakes I’ve ever tried.

If they fall apart in 3 months I’ll come back here and report it.

video of Alex’s review.

Yeah, you posted that before.

There certainly seems to be a style of language used with all the ‘reviews’ I’ve seen of these.

All companies can have issues with products (Shimano with their delaminating cranksets – and they’ve been in the game longer than Hope).

I really like Hopes, but current bike has Code RSC fitted and they are excellent, so I’m unsure if I’m going to need to buy new brakes.

If so, it’ll be Hope, but they’ll require time to save the cash for as they aren’t cheap…

As for the clarks crs4 which are nothing like the Lewis brakes BTW as those with eyes have clarified ,avoid them .

Bikeradar gave them 4.5 stars which out of ten would of been  correct but it was out of 5

The rotors should only be used as coasters they are the same as snail rotors etc and 2 rivets have already come loose making it fir for the bin

The lever on the rear has  worn the brass bushing so it rattles until you pull it .

As for the Lewis they look much more refined and for £280 I think they look worth a shout but the ti version for £400 would be my vote but then your then Into hope v4 money and if I was sat on a fence with 400 big ones burning a hole in my pocket I think I’d land on hope rather than hopefully.

Stealth add alert.come on its Christmas

I have a pair of hope tech 4 E4 brand new and boxed

Complete with floating rotors

Finished in silver with blue and red accents .think brittish royal legion colours

Pm me if interested £320 Inc rotors and delivery

Mtb brakes are essentially a machined caliper/lever with a hose for fluid. Yes ok bit of r/d thrown in. But £60 -£1000 a set !! **** Off 🤷‍♂️

Using the term ‘review’ for that video is just a touch disingenuous.

Yeah, you posted that before.

There certainly seems to be a style of language used with all the ‘reviews’ I’ve seen of these.

He seems genuine to me. I’d never heard of him but looks like he’s got a big youtube channel. If they are paying him to day that, would you do a dangerous DH race on them if they were no good.

I’ve done quite a few rides on them now, including some steep nasty DH stuff and I’m exceptionally happy with them.

Some people suggesting I should buy Hope because they are similar money is ludicrous. Why should I have to buy Hope brakes when I don’t like them, just to keep someone happy on the Internet because I “Should buy british”

I wish the Hope were the correct brake for me but unfortunately they are not.

I just don’t get this – if someone has the discretionary spend to be buying ~£300 brakes on what is a likely a hobby why the **** would you buy Chinese rip off tat when you could buy Hope?

Your assertion that cost is a factor is, I would suggest, almost certainly incorrect. Once past say a Deore level brake, I’d suggest it all becomes about personal preferences anyway and price becomes largely immaterial…

My preference is for a brake that feels fantastic, both in terms of ergonomics and function, over and above anything else. “Power is nothing without control” as Pirelli used to say back in the 90’s… I love what Hope do as a brand, but there’s a great many of their products that I wouldn’t buy myself, chiefly any of their brakes with a machined lever. The Tech4 is a significant step forward over the Tech3 in many ways, but it doesn’t fix the perennial Hope problem IMO… The problem…? Not only do they go to great lengths to make their machining finishes look rougher than they need to be, but also they seem to ignore how important tactility in hand is with those rough finishes extending onto the lever blade too (and holes or dimples where they don’t need to be). I quite want a pair of XCR’s for my XC bike, but that brake has a moulded carbon fibre lever blade which feels quite nice in hand. If they did that brake with a 4pot option, I’d stick them on my Trail Bike almost certainly.

Trickstuff really got the ergonomics right as far as I’m concerned, and they finished them beautifully as well. The incredible power (arguably too much!) was a nice by product of buying a super expensive set of brakes that at the time, fulfilled my other requirements.

For now, I’d rather just persevere with SRAM Guides and Codes on respective bikes… The lever feel is much better than any other mass manufactured brakes, they have modulation and control, and because most people want on/off Shimano style braking and think a brake that doesn’t stop you like a stick in the spokes is defective, you can pick them up cheaply and readily too… Case in point, just picked up some 1 ride old Code RS’s for a new build for £100 off Facebook classifieds with really long hoses!

If the Lewis Brakes feel as good as they look, I’d seriously consider buying a pair next time I’m looking for brakes. But I’ll stick with my stupidly cheap 2nd hand Codes and ageing Guides for now, especially as I have plenty of SRAM spares and I know how to look after them properly too (which most users don’t!)…

Im not sure why these brakes are getting so much hate

Because they’re stolen. Purchasers have bought someone’s stolen intellectual property, justifying it by saying it happens all the time and it’s inevitable. That’s a pretty awful attitude.

If you can’t afford the real deal, work harder or reset your expectations. Don’t facilitate what is essentially state-approved industrial crime.

Wouldn’t that apply to Hope et al as well …  lever + caliper + disk.  Everything else is aesthetics

https://www.rideformula.com/cat/mountain-bike/

He seems genuine to me. I’d never heard of him but looks like he’s got a big youtube channel. If they are paying him to day that, would you do a dangerous DH race on them if they were no good.

Ask the Tweed Valley locals what they think of him.

Also, I’d argue he’s anything but genuine, after a cursory glance at their instagram page, shall we play guess who is on there doing a ‘like & subscribe’ to win a set of these brakes 😆🙄