Jones Plus not right, what now?

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  • Jones Plus not right, what now?
  • lexhorton
    Member

    Hi, been getting some help from fine people on here with my Jones Plus.
    Whats becoming clearer is that despite a whole load of things that are great for me (position, reach, bars) the rigid front end just isnt right for my needs.

    so what would you look for now?
    I like the 29+ format i think because the buzz is low, but i don’t love the fact that theres a fine line between bounce and squirm.

    I also quite like the fact i can put a rack on there and carry a kid (really well) for family trips but i know thats probably going out the window and might need another bike

    i’m essentially bashing around on green lanes and fairly rough farm tracks plus going to trail centres with my kids, i have an arthiritic left wrist so loads of absorption at the front is an absolute must. I wouldn’t say no to a full suspension, particularly as an ex road racer who doesnt get out the saddle a whole lot, particularly if rear suspension will prevent be being thrown forward onto wrist.

    i’ll probably put jones bars on whatever i end up with because they do work for me. wide bars bend my wrist badly, the wide/sweep combo work well.

    6’2″ 85kg in my 40s.

    thoughts so far:

    stache 9.6
    shand bahookie.
    stanton sherpa (on 27+?)
    whyte trailbike
    santa cruz tall boy

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    I would go with a singular swift. by far the comfiest steel 29r I had ridden, prior to buying the jones.
    the new one takes 3” tyres I think. lovely comfy spring ride, with a 100mm air fork. perfect.

    Rockape63
    Member

    theres a fine line between bounce and squirm.

    😕

    ssmith1979
    Member

    OP – my XL singular swift frame is for sale if you’d like it?

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    ssmith1979 – Member

    OP – my XL singular swift frame is for sale if you’d like it?

    if he isn’t, I am.

    Premier Icon Normal Man
    Subscriber

    Something from Surly?

    flashes
    Member

    I was going to suggest a Krampus. Mine is a real all day bike….or ECR if you want to attach many things…

    Premier Icon Ben_H
    Subscriber

    Those are really quite diverse bikes.

    If you’ve got the time, it sounds as though you’d benefit from a shop with a varied display and / or a demo day.

    If you do enough riding, I’d also consider getting one bike for the simpler / family / winter rides (e.g. 29er rigid) and a second, more trail-orientated bike with bounce.

    I haven’t ridden one, but what about the Stooge? The whoel idea of the bike is to put you a bit more upright, more weight on feet, less on hands? Will take big squishy tyres up front, and pretty sure it’ll accomodate a suspension fork if needed

    poolman
    Member

    I have an xl swift and was thinking of a jones+, the swift is lovely, rigid forks, jones bars. Deffo a keeper.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    In the OP’s circumstances I’d be looking at lightweight FS bikes – 100-120mm travel, 29″ wheels.

    Premier Icon Denis99
    Subscriber

    I was in a similar situation , couldn’t get on with the Jones Spaceframe, but did like the riding position etc.

    Have eventually ended up with a Niner RIP9 , currently the frames are being discounted by Stif at about 50% off for the carbon frame and rear shock.

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    When I had a wrist issue I was using FS and Mary bars

    I can’t say that you have to have FS but my logic was that I just wanted to be certain it would be OK. Or that the bike I bought would have the biget chance of working

    I think any medium travel trail bike will be fine. I think FS is great on rough but nontechnical terrain where you just want to sit and pedal.

    I bought used as was 100% sure that I could ride even with FS. My logic was that if you resell a used bike the hit shouldn’t be that large.

    At the risk of stating the obvious get to some demo days

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    Niner SIR.9
    Comfiest hardtail I’ve ever ridden, even with normal wheels & tyres. I’ve been running it b+ / 29+., it’s certainly comfy, but I’m going to try it b+ at the back, b+ up front with the Reba I’ve picked up for it.
    Non oversized carbon bars, comfy grips & a 30deg stem go a long way to making it comfy. It’s as much about getting the weight off your hands as inducing travel.

    lexhorton
    Member

    agreed on getting weight off your hands, part of why went with the jones. the issue is that anything above 10psi the lightly weighted front wheel ‘bounces up’ a lot and anything under 8 psi works well but the sidewall is essentially collapsed the whole time and cornering is a bit weird.

    @Rockape63 this explains my (maybe misguided) “theres a fine line between bounce and squirm.” statement.

    the nature of the wrist pain is odd, it shows up a day or so later (arthiritis flare up) so knowing what exactly sets it off is hard to tell. right now i’m wondering if i should be gripping the bars tight with loose arms rather than getting flicked by the bars occasionally when the front bounces.

    maybe i need to not ride for a month or more, get back to where i was before i stared riding the jones that didn’t fit me great at the start: brake angles, stem length, bar height etc all changed.

    I’m out in east Anglia where demo days are about as rare as mountains from what i can tell.
    a local store will let me demo a SC high tower and thats probably a good step for me, i can make apples to apples comparison of the bike on the trails/paths/tracks/lanes i’ve been riding.

    all the feedback and input on this forum is greatly appreciated.

    I just want to get up early, rip the bike around the countryside for an hour or so and get on with the rest of my day.
    nothing spectacular.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Andy at backcountrybiking in Aviemore is also off his Jones now due to arm pain. Loved riding it, but long-term discomfort rules it out for him. I guess what works for some just doesn’t work for others.

    Not the first time I’ve said this:)

    Why not raise your bars?

    Because of a fractured wrist from way back and because I wear specs, ive got the bars on my bike super high.

    There’s no law to say that there should be any pressure on your hands when cycling.

    (Though there’s probably a law, forbidding men over 35 from wearing Lycra)lol.

    Delta stem riser?
    North road/ Dutch handlebars?
    Adjustable stem?

    Fwiw, I’m riding a alloy cube 29er hardtail with the forks locked out most of the time. Conti 2.1 up front.
    Though, the thudbuster seems to absorb a lot of the hits better than the fork.

    lexhorton
    Member

    @greatbeardedone

    good point and agreed! coming from road (and a custom bike) i know all about people riding with bars too low and bikes cut to look aggressive

    i’ve actually kept the steerer on the jones full length and the bars have been at a range of heights, at the top i feel like a elbows a bit low and wrist angle not great, where i have them (30mm spacers ontop of already high stack) i can hold the bars with little weight on them and a good angle down through the forearm/wrist to hand.

    i was wondering if the fact i have them high with no weight was what was stopping me from damping this bouncing front.

    to be clear its not big bumps and features that are the problem i see em, unweight and let the bike do its thing, its the barely visible undulations that at speed can suddenly force the front end up, i partly wonder if the rebound off the tyre squish is making it worse!

    Premier Icon chaos
    Subscriber

    Would a Thudbuster be enough to

    prevent be being thrown forward onto wrist.

    ?

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    I’m out in east Anglia where demo days are about as rare as mountains from what i can tell.

    Where abouts are you. Rutland cycles is “East”ish. But not South East

    They have demo bikes and hire bikes. I’d chat to them on the phone if they are nearby as I found them helpful.

    lexhorton
    Member

    i’m outside Cambridge where their bikes are primarily commuter bikes,
    i think i need to get to their grafham water store,
    was going to be one of my next steps, particularly if a FS bike was the right direction.

    lexhorton
    Member

    @normalman @flashes.

    a Krampus is an option for me just like a Travers russTi would be. problem is it’s not that clear what the front suspension options are. I don’t want Lauf, if i’m going suspension i want the best damping and curve possible.

    as for a Krampus, who knows when they’ll be available again…

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    There’s one in the Classifieds right now.

    piemonster
    Member

    as for a Krampus, who knows when they’ll be available again.

    April/May from what I’ve seen.

    Premier Icon olibluegoat
    Subscriber

    I’m in your area and looking at something similar for a play bike. Looking at the Stooge. New frame will be out in April

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    i’m outside Cambridge where their bikes are primarily commuter bikes,
    i think i need to get to their grafham water store,
    was going to be one of my next steps, particularly if a FS bike was the right direction

    The Rutland water store might be bigger, ask them. You can make a day out of it. The ride round the lake has variety of surfaces (non challenging) but make a scenic 17 or 23 miles. Lots for a family to do

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    I found the Krampus a bit stiff & unforgiving, I only had if for a day though, thrashing it around Cannock. I was sold on the plus thing though.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Shorter stem and a layback post will take weight off the wrists while keeping the reach the same.
    But it will affect handling.
    Cheep enough to try and see?

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    the issue is that anything above 10psi the lightly weighted front wheel ‘bounces up’ a lot and anything under 8 psi works well but the sidewall is essentially collapsed the whole time and cornering is a bit weird.

    At the risk of stating the obvious, why not just ride at 9psi then? It’s not that hard to keep a consistent tyre pressure with a decent digital gauge and a lot cheaper than a new bike.

    Failing that have you considered full-fat. It’s probably not going to work when things get properly bumpy, but if you mainly want to get rid of trail chatter then nothing works as well as a big low pressure tyre.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    the issue is that anything above 10psi the lightly weighted front wheel ‘bounces up’ a lot and anything under 8 psi works well but the sidewall is essentially collapsed the whole time and cornering is a bit weird.

    At the risk of stating the obvious, why not just ride at 9psi then? It’s not that hard to keep a consistent tyre pressure with a decent digital gauge and a lot cheaper than a new bike.

    Failing that have you considered full-fat. It’s probably not going to work when things get properly bumpy, but if you mainly want to get rid of trail chatter then nothing works as well as a big low pressure tyre.

    Premier Icon adsh
    Subscriber

    When I’ve put rigid forks on a HT it seems to unsettle it a lot more than just at the front.

    I’d suggest a HT with forks to start.

    I’ve stopped riding rigid in the past due to wrist pain (vaguely arthritic). Traced it down to a too aggressive position. My new rigid SS is slightly less aggressive and works well.

    kaiser
    Member

    There’s one in the Classifieds right now.

    it’s a medium iirc BUT….I’ve a vvgc large Krampus OPS frame ( multi dropout option ) in black with new full length fork..the one with numerous braze ons ( uncut steerer ) I’m may be selling soon . Also might split separately if required and fork/headset not wanted.
    mail in profile if interested
    Bill

    Premier Icon martymac
    Subscriber

    Have you tried ergon type grips?
    They’ve been a revelation for me.

    haven’t ridden one, but what about the Stooge? The whoel idea of the bike is to put you a bit more upright, more weight on feet, less on hands? Will take big squishy tyres up front, and pretty sure it’ll accomodate a suspension fork if needed

    I wonder where Stooge got that idea from, here’s a hint- Jones 😉

    lexhorton
    Member

    Agreed, I think his approach shows a lot of understanding about how bikes are ridden

    For what it’s worth I think jones has got very close to what seems to be his goal. An all round bike for a load of different uses.
    Whether that’s achievable is a bigger question.

    One of the reasons replacing it is a challenge

    I know a fair amount about fit and have an industrial design background, everything he says makes sense and delivers.

    I’m also not naive enough to know about all round tools not being scalpels.

    I’m just going to need wrist fusion surgery to ride it hard off road.
    At the end of the day I didn’t buy the bike as a gateway to owning a full sus bike and if I need full on suspension to ride 10 miles of Greenlane at high speed then it feels like I just shouldn’t be off road at all.

    Premier Icon johnnystorm
    Subscriber

    I haven’t ridden a Jones but I have owned a Krampus. Apart from freeing up some cash what benefit over the Jones do people envisage from an equally rigid steel 29+ bike?

    slowster
    Member

    I hope you find a solution that works for you. It sounds like you are having to consider a ‘trial and error’ approach to find a solution, rather than being able to take advantage of expert opinion based on medical expertise and/or the personal experience of others with similar conditions. I presume you have already trawled the internet to try to find similar experiences to yours and medical experts in this field with a sports injury bias.

    I think a lot of athletes use weight training to build and strengthen muscles in order to take some of the stress on vulnerable body parts and thus prevent and reduce the risk of injury, but I imagine that it might not be possible to do that for the wrist, which has little in the way of muscle to begin with.

    I take it you have also investigated and experimented with different handlebars. Personally, I’ve always thought that one of the best positions for long term comfort is provided by the classic position of riding on the hoods of conventional drop bars, where the hand is almost gripping the hood at a similar angle to holding a pistol, with the resulting force of any road shocks transmitted straight up the arms (hence the guidance that the elbows should always be slightly bent and not locked, so that they absorb the impact). It strikes me that the hand position of the traditional north road bar, which Epicyclo uses and has mentioned in a few threads, offers a similar position.

    lexhorton
    Member

    @slowster

    unfortunately it is a bit of trial and error, but I’m talking to store owners, the people who built the bike, people at jones and using this forum, trying to build up an image.
    finding a medic who knows exactly whats going on is tougher, they basically say, live your life, you’ll need to get it fused sometime anyway. They don’t care that i skateboard pools still.

    on handlebars: it was the design of the swept Jones bars that led me to the Jones bike designs, the swept bars work pretty well for me from what i can tell and like road bars have a bunch of hand positions which keeps things varied. i quickly put a flat bar on as an experiment and it hurt badly the next day…

    funny you should mention road bike hoods position , I jumped back on the road bike, all be it on the rollers (not trainer) and as you point out hoods are probably the best position for me, no wonder i managed years of racing on them with the bust wrist, occasionally the peloton crosses tracks or doesn’t call out a pothole and i could get hurt a bit but it didn’t knock me for weeks like this.

    whats bizarre is that this squishy bike that never hurt me ‘in the moment’ leads to pain days later, the road bike never did. the computer does…

    i also forgot how ‘off my hands’ the road bike actually is.

    @johnny storm. from a fit/posture position they’re pretty different bikes, the handlebar stack is miles higher and the long wheelbase changes feel a lot.
    The jones is ideal for 6ft middle aged people who used to be much gnarlier!

    Thinking of how my two bikes behave, the hardtail is much harder on the hands than the full-sus, even though both are running near identical forks (140 and 150mm Pikes). I suspect a short travel 29er full-sus with relatively short reach (you may need to size down) and high bars could be your best bet, especially with big and possibly plus tubeless tyres.

    Also, improved core strength may take some load off your hands.

    slowster
    Member

    finding a medic who knows exactly whats going on is tougher, they basically say, live your life, you’ll need to get it fused sometime anyway.

    I’ve heard it said the NHS is a National Sickness Service, not a National Health Service, i.e. they often don’t have the resources, knowledge, skills and sufficient determination to properly cure chronic conditions, and consider that if you are fit enough to go back to work, that’s the best they can do.

    From the little that I’ve read, for sports injuries and injuries that affect sporting performance there can sometimes be a big difference between the treatment offered (and the resulting patient outcomes) by the average run of mill consultant vs. the specialists to whom the top athletes go when they have a problem.

    I can’t help wondering if there are any sports where similar injuries to yours are not unknown and would be potentially career ending for a highly paid professional competitor (tennis, boxing, motorbike trials?). If so, I would expect there might be a very small number of doctors who would specialise in that field and would offer better treatment than normally provided. It might be worth trying to speak to the doctor employed by a national sporting body, such as the Lawn Tennis Association, since they are likely to be the people who will know of any specialists in this field. Obviously, if there are such medical specialists who do offer better treatment and outcomes than a typical NHS consultant, they will doubtless charge at the top end of private healthcare treatment prices.

    funny you should mention road bike hoods position , I jumped back on the road bike, all be it on the rollers (not trainer) and as you point out hoods are probably the best position for me, no wonder i managed years of racing on them with the bust wrist, occasionally the peloton crosses tracks or doesn’t call out a pothole and i could get hurt a bit but it didn’t knock me for weeks like this.

    Maybe it would be worth trying a pair of the north road style bars, even if only as part of a process of elimination to confirm that different handlebars are not the answer. Judging by the images of Charlie the Bikemonger’s website page for handlebars here the north road bars don’t have a full 90 degree sweep, but it is greater than the sweep of the Jones bars. On One have some more extreme bars, such as the Snorky and Mungo, but I think they are road lever diameter.

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