Jeremy Corbyn

He made it easy for the press to go after him.

The thing is there is absolutely nothing he can do to appease the hard right parts of the press.

There is very little he can do to appease the “centre left” parts of the press.

It doesnt matter how much “tactical acumen” he does or doesnt have. Unless he abandons all positions and dives rightwards they will keep the continual smear campaigns going.

heard someone say the Tory party has at least as much of a problem with “isms” on the Spectator podcast of all places!

Historically the right always has, and always will have,  more issues with racism and I doubt it is any different now. All they seem to do  now is attack islam, saying its a race not a religion whist vehemently striving to find anti semitism everywhere. Its weird how much they protect  Jews/Israel and how much they attack  Muslims.

“Is it any wonder that Labour can’t be bothered to deal with the disgusting antisemitism in their party when they are so reliant on the votes of Britain’s exploding Muslim population? It’s a question of maths for these people, not justice!”

This is the sort of thing that sums up their positions tweet from Leave EU for example.

The unfortunate thing is post brexit  discrimination and racism is on the rise – to blame  the left for this is, at best, misguided but they are not free of this society wide malaise.

The unfortunate thing is post brexit discrimination and racism is on the rise

does brexit account for the rise of racism and anti-semitism across europe as well ?

maybe the large amounts of uncontrolled immigration favoured by the EU has had more of an effect.

One of the real problems is useless politicians.

Chuka, etc might be dismayed that brexit was the choice and pointed out afterwards that there ways that we could have more control over immigration, within the rules of the EU, but wtf did they only become ‘aware’ of these possibilities after the campaigning was over ? Why did they not point out how much this country needs immigration to support the number of pensioners – which would have appealed to the older generation?

Brexit didn’t cause people to become racist, they were already racist.  What Brexit did (with its immigrants are evil mantra) was to make racism look like an okay thing so people felt more comfortable letting their racist feelings known

At least we are not Bulgaria…

http://www.novinite.com/articles/182331/EC+Survey%3A+Bulgaria+in+the+Top+3+of+the+Most+Racist+Countries+in+Europe

This map shows the most racist countries in Europe (and how Britain ranks)

So apart from random links what does that prove? It’s not possible that JC is racist or anti semitic or that he is or that the UK has a problem with racism or that it doesn’t??

http://www.kickitout.org/news/kick-it-out-reveal-reporting-statistics-for-201516-season/

This is the most ridiculous ‘debate’ I’ve ever come across. The fact that there are some people in the labour party who are racist is no more surprising than there being racists in the tory party. The main difference is that the labour party actually give a shit about it. They also give a shit about human rights and innocent people being slaughtered by aggressive governments. In this case their opponents who don’t give a shit about any of these things are using the fact that the labour party do to criticise them for not doing enough about it.

What is most outrageous is not that the tories are using this to attack Corbyn, that’s to be expected. The most disgraceful element of this is that the moderate wing of the labour party are allowing their party, and by proxy their supporters to be smeared as racists for expedient political point-scoring against Corbyn. I’ve never really agreed with the idea that Corbyn’s critics should be deselected or ejected from the party but I’m beginning to change my mind.

In case anyone is still in doubt about who Corbyn’s critics are …

http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/board-congratulations-trump/

The most disgraceful element of this is that the moderate wing of the labour party are allowing their party, and by proxy their supporters to be smeared as racists for expedient political point-scoring against Corbyn.

Interesting. So how come even Momentum say that “Accusations of anti-Semitism should not and cannot be dismissed simply as right-wing smears.” And that “<i>Momentum’s National Coordinating Group (NCG) acknowledges the anger, upset and despair within the British Jewish community at the numerous cases of antisemitism in the Labour Party and the Party’s failure to date to deal with them in a sufficiently decisive, swift and transparent manner.”?</i>

It all depends on what your opinion of what anti semitism is.

One end of the scale you have those who think it’s people who hate all Jews full stop, the other end those who think it can be used against people who simply think Israel uses unreasonable force against innocent people.

I’d imagine more left wing people find Israel’s actions unpalatable so if you lean towards that end of the scale when classing what is and isn’t anti semitic it stands to reason you would think Labour has plenty of anti semitic members.

You mean a bit like how being opposed to multiculturalism and immigration isn’t necessarily  a sign of racism?

I would suggest that the fear and suspicion of many in the Jewish world is that “acceptable” criticism of Israeli government policy is in fact being used as a tool by some/many to normalise and mask much deeper anti-Semitism and open hostility towards the existence of Israel as a nation and/or any two state solution. It gives succour to those whose ultimate goal is the violent destruction of Israel as a nation.

Supporting these people (those who are committed to wiping the nation of Israel off the map) and calling them your “friends” on the basis that you disagree with Israeli policy should be, to most people, abhorrent.

Very interesting to see the wider geo-political picture here, such as the recent interview with MBS:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/mohammed-bin-salman-iran-israel/557036/

 It gives succour to those whose ultimate goal is the violent destruction of Israel as a nation.

It might. and that is made all the easier when self-appointed Jewish community leaders give knee-jerk endorsement of Israeli atrocities and condemn other Jewish groups as antisemitic.

There’s always different opinions in life

See what some arabs think about the actions of the Palestinians:

https://www.memri.org/reports/kuwaiti-columnist-slams-hamas-great-return-march

From the wiki page describing your ‘source’ memri – (Middle East Media Research Institute)

“The institute was co-founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli military intelligence officer and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-born American political scientist.”

I’d insert a laughing smiley here, but that button doesn’t seem to exist anymore, ho hum.

What’s your point caller?

That because the source that reported and translated it is Jewish it means that Abdallah Al-Hadlaq isn’t in fact an Arab columnist who wrote an article in The Al-Watan newspaper criticising the Palestinians?

You didn’t engage in any way with what was said, just immediately dismissed the source because they were Jewish. How much more anti-Semitic can you get? You’re aware of the concept of ad-hominem attacks on the source being a form of logical fallacy I take it?

I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to make more sense than that.

Put succinctly, the issue is whether you are disputing the source, or the accuracy of the article?

if the article is accurate, then your attack on the source is irrelevant.

I’m simply highlighting that the source may not be particularly reliable or balanced, given those who run it.

Whether it is or not, well that’s up to those reading it to decide.

 just immediately dismissed the source because they were Jewish. How much more anti-Semitic can you get?

I’m guessing that the religion/race of the author was less relevant than his being a former Israeli military intelligence officer.

Supporting these people (those who are committed to wiping the nation of Israel off the map) and calling them your “friends” on the basis that you disagree with Israeli policy should be, to most people, abhorrent.

You’re partly correct. If Corbyn is guilty of anything, it’s that in the post-Iraq period he was too close to people in the muslim community who were clearly anti-semitic. That’s not to say he agreed with them though, and the same accusation could be levelled at tory MPs and ministers who ally themselves with people in the jewish community who are clearly anti-muslim. That’s the thing with racism, it works both ways. In this case however it’s only being applied to one side, and Corbyn is on record repeatedly denouncing racism in any form, which is not what you hear from pro-Israeli lot.

  In this case however it’s only being applied to one side

This is a classic tactic employed here that has been used by the right wing in the US for years, get the “moderates” to denounce themselves, while the right continue with their disgusting behaviour.

That’s the thing with racism, it works both ways. In this case however it’s only being applied to one side

There is an important distinction there – The case law is (whether you like it or not) that Islam/Muslim is solely a form of religious belief rather than being recognised as carrying further characteristics categorising them as a racial group, like Judaism and Sikhism.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

There is an important distinction there

No there’s not. You’re using pedantry to justify racism. You know full well that racism against muslims exists. If you’re uncomfortable with that then in the context of Israel we can talk about racism against arabs. Either way it’s racism.

You know full well that racism against muslims exists.

Who to believe, you or the law?

I even gave you the link to read it yourself…

Meanwhile in Israel, the Chief Rabbi calls black people monkeys.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-rabbi-compares-african-americans-to-monkeys/

Strange silence from all the committed anti-racists criticising Jeremy Corbyn.

Did you even read your own link ninfan? It directly contradicts you, unsurprisingly.

Who to believe, you or the law?

The law does not define biology, unfortunately for your argument. Anyway – the point at which you raise this diversion is generally the point at which any sensible discussion can be discounted, so that’s me out of this strand of the conversation.

You mean a bit like how being opposed to multiculturalism and immigration isn’t necessarily  a sign of racism?

If you like Ninfan but by the same token you either accept that not all the lefties that are currently being accused of anti semitism are actually anti semetic or that you and your ilk are actually racist. Up to you which one you choose.

Everyone’s got tickets, right?

Join me, Jeremy Corbyn and some cracking acts on 16th June!

I'll be doing a battle rap with John McDonnell then doing a duet of The Red Flag with Rae Morris, how can you miss thathttps://t.co/AO3NjEYesF pic.twitter.com/NtKWHdqy3G

— Owen Jones (@OwenJones84) June 6, 2018

I genuinely thought that was a joke when i first saw it. Rae Morris is good though.

Hip Hop Karaoke with Len McCluskey and the Unite Crew. Satire is dead.

Here's the full #LabourLive timings folks. And the full programme of events. pic.twitter.com/TjWWKFVLqL

— Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) June 13, 2018

I note a glaring omission in the line up

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What happened to the Croydon Communist anyway? I miss Ernie 🙁

I think we may have Corbyn’s “Ed-stone”.

He go to gulag, Comrade Binski.

I don’t like crowds, so I might pop down.

actually, maybe not, I am fussy about the company I am found in.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1007210593735069697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Forder-order.com%2F

what a f*** up – Peter Andre could pull in more people than Jezzer :

http://www.cityam.com/287361/labour-mps-urge-investigation-over-embarrassing-jezfest

Looks like some last minute changes in the line up Flashy:

Do you play with yourself before or after you post?