Not for me. If I wanted to ride something rigid and uncomfortable, I’d use a time machine to go back to the early 90’s.

The main thing I’m intrigued by is what people think “proper MTB” is?
Single track, the odd gravel climb and natural trails is surely what “proper MTB” is? Oddly, this is where a gravel bike works and not a modern enduro-sled.

Single track, the odd gravel climb and natural trails is surely what “proper MTB” is? Oddly, this is where a gravel bike works and not a modern enduro-sled

MEh, that’s the riding at the moment but in what way does the gravel bike ‘work’ that the Enduro doesnt ? Ultimate speed is about the only answer. Maybe 0.5mph average on a ride, does it really matter ?

I was thinking of getting a HT (Nukeproof Scout) but now thinking of a more XC focussed HT.

No idea where to start – the board man MHT seems more XC focused but what else? Maybe 1200-1300.

The main thing I’m intrigued by is what people think “proper MTB” is?

I think that’s another thread, and probably even more subjective.

You’re describing “old-school” MTB. To me, “proper MTB” would just mean a really good ride in any genre or level of tech – dodging through the trees on the mildly undulating trails of the home counties, heading out into the Pennines all day or a rocky Lakes or Scottish epic.

Strangely I considered this on my ride a few weeks ago.
I’m another Kent resident, and getting to trails for me involves a drag on the road. The trails just as the last pic Tallpaul posted: relatively flat )looks like the downs overlooking Halling/Snodland?)

When I was riding regularly with a group 15 years ago I had a Fisher Sugar 1- perfect for those type of trails and not bad on the roads. I struggled on what few downhill sections we had due to lack of skill/rim brakes/minimal suspension compared to the others with discs and more travel.

About 10 years ago I got a Dialled Alpine, but a lack of riding and fitness made the trails and uphills a chore, but the downhills a blast. Since I’ve got back improved fitness the uphills are endurable, flat trails fun.

My thoughts strayed to a gravel bike (N+1 maybe) due to length of road time to get to the trail on my usual circuit, but I think I’d be back to taking the downhill like on my Fisher and that’s the part I enjoy, however brief it is.

I’m surrounded by Sustrans routes, bridleways, country parks and towpaths.

I may have missed the memo telling everyone gravel bikes were irrelevant.

You’re describing “old-school” MTB. To me, “proper MTB” would just mean a really good ride in any genre or level of tech – dodging through the trees on the mildly undulating trails of the home counties, heading out into the Pennines all day or a rocky Lakes or Scottish epic.

Granted, but we’re talking ‘at the moment’ with the restrictions we have where an all day Lakes ride is taking the p***

I have generally ridden all-terrain from the door for the last 30yrs, but my older (2009) MTB has 2.4 knobblies and 130-140mm forks so is a bit draggy on roads. I keep that bike for the more challenging stuff. The monstercross was better for all-terrain but right now using a rigid 29er on the turbo trainer, using 35c Land Cruiser hybrid tyres (all I had lying around that would work on the trainer)

Did take it out on the road the other night but very nearly flattened by boy-racer who seemed to be playing Carmageddon IRL. Luckily the disc-brakes and draggy tyres helped pull up short. Had I instead been on my Audax with cantis…(shudder)

I remember slowly parting ways with old biking friends as they began to buy vans and more MX-style MTBs, while I kept riding to work and on weekends continued to enjoy the old bridleway/back lane circuits, the towpaths, the woods and the hills, exploring etc. I love to head out from the door on a Sunday morning and return at dusk having discovered new places and a pint on the way. Sometimes bivvying overnight.

What’s ‘relevant’ to people varies from person to person. For some it’s about keeping up with trends and going where everyone goes, but for most I’m guessing it’s about getting what works for the type of riding you do? For me an ideal ATB/gravel-bike/monstercross (delete as applicable) would be a fairly lightweight 29er with flared drops or loop bars. I’m getting there with the Longitude, but it isn’t ‘light’ mostly on account of the mahoosive saddle, the budget loop bars, the rear rack, and the fairly heavy Hope Enduro wheelset.

With the carbon flat bar and Ergon bar-ends fitted, the rack removed and Phenom saddle on – it’s very almost a blast on gravel. Certainly punching way above what I paid for it.

When I get fit and rich I’ll be all over that new-fangled ATB niche, complete with some newfangled gossamer tech-xtiled bikepacking luggage, a Ti spork and folding woodburner 😎

I went out for a road ride this morning and it confirmed my view in this. I’m happy to either whisk along on the road bike on (mostly) nice smooth tarmac with no diversions on to anything ‘gravelly’.

I have a hardtail with 140mm fork on it that with summer tyres whips along fine on tarmac – I’m going to use that locally to explore some places with tarmac links between off road bits. It doesn’t dumb down easier trails and remains pretty comfy on anything a bit rockier. It’s slacker than the hardtails / FS’ I rode in the mid/late 90’s but not wildly so. 66 degree headangle / 435mm reach / 425mm chainstays / 650b wheels / 2.3” tyres etc – it’s hilarious for short blasts.

Granted, but we’re talking ‘at the moment’ with the restrictions we have where an all day Lakes ride is taking the p***

Lunge was speaking more broadly, I believe.

but in what way does the gravel bike ‘work’ that the Enduro doesnt ?

Always Speed 😉 comfort on the road, not having use a backpack as pump, bidons and tools all fit easily on the bike, narrow bars make it more nimble through some gaps,less stupid size proprietary hubs so swap bits over easily, don’t have to swap from mud tyres to a summer tread.
I have only used my ibis a couple of times in the last year plus but done thousands of km on the cx bikes. It’s much easier to just get on the cx bike straight from the front door, especially being in London

Maybe 0.5mph average on a ride, does it really matter ?

It’s a bigger difference than that (although it depends on the ride). My fastest average on the gravel bike is 17mph over 90 minutes (in a group so drafting on the road sections makes a big difference). I definitely couldn’t even hold 17mph on the MTB on the road for very long, let alone average it over a ride!

In times of massive compromise, why not choose a bike that is a massive compromise 😉

Me – 29er hardtail all the way at the moment (northern edge of Peak District)

Interesting one this. I’ve always had my ‘best’ MTB, and then the ‘other’ bike.

Currently the MTB is a 2020 SC Hightower, so a bit of a beast, and my ‘other’ is a Fearless Vulture Gravel Bike. I don’t really like the Gravel bike term – its just the other bike – not a road bike, not a mountain bike, somewhere in between.

I do ride the MTB from home but usually when in a group, when we dont go as far and just prat about in the woods. But I can get a lot further, a lot faster on the Vulture, than I could ever hope to do on the MTB.

Miles and miles of this, shown below, interspersed 50/50 with Tarmac, would be slow and boring on the Hightower. On this, its fast, and a little bit ragged when bouncing about off road which makes it fun.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2iLuD4q]thumbnail_DSC_0110_2[/url] by simonholehan, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/24vG6he]_20190310_153856[/url] by simonholehan, on Flickr

My only thing to add is that in the past I’ve also had lightweight, simple, flat bar 29er MTB (ATB?) and while the balance of that is slightly shifted toward the off road, its still a lot more suitable than an Enduro Sled/TFS trail bike. I am tempted to go back to one of those and get a ‘proper’ road bike.

Yeah it’s not only the speed (I can average 12mph on my gravel bike, even with knobblies, on a 10 mile commute, which has a 3 mile, 600ft climb on it) but the comfort/efficiency (drop bars in a headwind are just so much better), and lastly, making tame local trails interesting again.

For me, proper MTB is surrey hills, natural woodland trails with berms, drops, roots etc that are perfect for a FS trail bike. Not a chance I’d ride them on my gravel bike!

On the flip side, I can ride my local stuff on my 150mm FS bike, but it flattens everything and makes it a bit boring. And any road sections are just hard work. I did a 50 mile ride last year along pilgrims way and back, on my then 14.5kg 140mm travel FS bike. By the end I was really wishing I had something lighter/more efficient.

I’ve done 37 mile rides on my space chicken which were great and didn’t have me wanting to be on a different bike.

There’s a 90-100 mile ride I’d like to do in summer, I won’t be doing that on my MTB, that’s for sure.

Before buying the space chicken I was speccing up a lightweight hardtail build with a set of xc tyres, carbon seatpost etc to bring it down to 10-11kg – but the gravel bike at 9.5kgs at half the cost is just brilliant.

I do still want to build a hardtail but it’ll be for winter slop riding (singlespeed, 27.5 2.8 rear, 29 2.3 mud front) rather than for local riding.

Strangely I considered this on my ride a few weeks ago.
I’m another Kent resident, and getting to trails for me involves a drag on the road. The trails just as the last pic Tallpaul posted: relatively flat )looks like the downs overlooking Halling/Snodland?)

Yeah it’s Pilgrims way above halling/snodland.

I guess in answer to the OP’s question, this lockdown will be influencing sales. I’m sure of it.

I really fancy one if I’m honest as the roads are so crappy the fatter tyres would really help. I’ve started riding my road bike a bit more now. Can’t say I really like it.

For me personally I’m perfectly happy bumbling along the mixed path on an MTB (most rides at the moment are SS). I’m lucky in that I can do a 5 mile ride to my local trails from the front door and not actually have to mix with traffic. I grab which ever bike I fancy for the trails.

I’m mainly using my Trail FS bike, rather than the 90’s rigid MTB. It’s more comfy and not really any slower. I do have some proper trails nearby, but avoiding anything a bit ‘risky’. Sticking to bridleways and the canal.

A lighter bike with lighter narrower tyres can just feel nicer on a lot of terrain (road and gravel)
I recently switched from 550g 32c tyres with side knobs to 400g 28c smooth tyres (heavy for a 28c road tyre but very tough tyre). The bike feels a lot nicer to rider. Steers better, accelerates better and just feels nicer overall and that was just a difference of 150g and a few mm,

It is also just as fast on the gravel roads as bigger tyres.

Its only on the climbs that I regret having to sell my Sugar, but it I enjoyed making a climb recently on the Alpine in one go that I had last done on the Sugar many years ago.

Yeah it’s Pilgrims way above halling/snodland.

I Like the riding over there, so many options to make varied routes. I’m just riding the Detling/Boxley end of the Pilgrims Way which doesn’t have as many offshoots. It’s a bit of a stretch to link over Blue Bell Hill in my time available (even pre lockdown).

Thing is, MTB’s have been getting bigger and slacker and longer and lower and heavier.

Some have. You can still get XC racey bikes, rigid adventure bikes and all the rest of it.

The thing that all these debates about ‘proper’ MTBing seem to miss is that MTBing has always attracted people from different sections of society with quite different aims. There have always been thrillseeker/adrenaline types, fitness types and outdoorsy types. It’s just that back in the day we were all on the same bikes. Of course, lots of people do more than one style of riding. So the real question is ‘would you like to try a different style of cycling?’. All the styles have always been relevant. Time to see what other options are open to you 🙂

For me the answer would be no. Years ago I bought a CX bike for pretty much this purpose, and enjoyed it enough for a while but the compromises started to grate. The road riding became boring and I missed the finesse of a proper road bike. Ditto the off road bits, working suspension really is wonderful. I’d much rather have a cheap 29er hard tail and a cheap road bike (generous tyre clearance would be nice though, I’m not desperate to go back to 23’s).

I’ve been thinking about the “gravel bike is just an old school MTB” point. I agree that in spirit it is similar to the Raleigh Dune Dancer I bought in 1988 in that I rode that thing everywhere (from commuting in Croydon to the slickrock trail when I lived in Utah). But we’ve still got a 1992 Specialized Rockhopper (rigid, steel etc) in the shed and I can tell you it feels nothing like my 2019 gravel bike to ride. The latter is so much more efficient on the road and the advantages of discs over the old cantis combined with 47mm 650b tyres mean that it’s no worse off it either.

I agree it’s all just bikes though. I’m not too keen on the term gravel if I’m honest, but then I preferred ATB to MTB and I lost that one 🙂

Gravel bikes were always relevant, but maybe now they’re just becoming relevant to a new group of people.

Mine is just a gravelised CX bike, more gears, higher front end, 40c tyres.

It’s definitely more fun than my otherwise fairly nippy 29er, it just feels like it responds to efforts better, more efficient and smoother with the 2x gearing etc etc. Different sort of fun also, yesterday I got slightly carried away just seeing how much speed I could carry along a slightly lumpy farm track whilst keeping it smooth (and yes, even then I had a quick word with myself and backed off…) Adrenaline vs. Endorphins etc.

I have been, shock horror, thinking of a road bike for a little while but maybe a gravel bike would be a better compromise for me?!?! (like the look of the orange space chicken!)

I ride flats and baggies on the MTB and cant see me EVER riding clips and lycra,

Have also played with the idea of trying bike packing later in the year as well…..

Maybe I’m growing up!

I Like the riding over there, so many options to make varied routes. I’m just riding the Detling/Boxley end of the Pilgrims Way which doesn’t have as many offshoots. It’s a bit of a stretch to link over Blue Bell Hill in my time available (even pre lockdown).

Another local! The west side of Pilgrims way from Boxley is part of my regular route so I’m well acquainted with that area! I don’t ride much to the top to north downs way purely because of the climb!!

I’m riding my rigid original Solaris. Not particularly slack but great fun for local stuff. I’m in North London and there are enough off road sections to have an enjoyable ride.

My gravel bike has been commuterised so can’t ride that (heavy marathon plus tyres, rack, guards, lock etc).

Plus, more importantly, what would I wear? I’d been riding in a softshell jacket and keela roadrunner trousers with flats. I can’t wear that on a gravel bike can I? I mean there are rules aren’t there? I’d have to lycra up. And then I’d have to use cleats because of the rules again

I mean there are rules aren’t there? I’d have to lycra up

Baggies and trail helmet for me on my Gravel Bike!

My only thing to add is that in the past I’ve also had lightweight, simple, flat bar 29er MTB (ATB?) and while the balance of that is slightly shifted toward the off road, its still a lot more suitable than an Enduro Sled/TFS trail bike. I am tempted to go back to one of those and get a ‘proper’ road bike.

I went off googling again and found an interesting article highlighting how close the difference is between a capable off road gravel bike, and a really light flat bar XC MTB.

Pro Bike Profile: Carl Decker’s Lost and Found Winning Giant XTC Advanced

In times of massive compromise, why not choose a bike that is a massive compromise

Search me. A gravel bike must be the least compromised of any type of bike on the market.

Yep, that Giant above is pretty similar to the most progressive gravel bikes, just with a different bar. Arguably if one cut the flat bar width down and put some nice bar ends on they’d be even closer. I’ve got a 20lb 29er with a Lefty on it that does everything…I’d like a gravel bike but it in reality I don’t ‘need’ it….

Interesting article Snotrag.

Are flat-bar bikes relatively common at gravel events or is it just like the odd attention seeker turning up to an XC race on a CX bike?

and put some nice bar ends on

I was just thinking, that thing is crying out for some bar ends.

Bars don’t look flat, so bar ends aren’t allowed!

Looking at how close Deckers 36T chainring is running to the chainstay, this is where the biggest limiting factor is in comparison to a gravel specific design – that runs darn close and bet the carbon’s about 1/2 a mm thick there too…

Search me. A gravel bike must be the least compromised of any type of bike on the market.

👍🏼 +1

Interestingly I just yesterday was searching for bikepacking luggage to replace my (heavy) racks and (heavy) panniers and chanced upon this Cycling UK article about whether it’s (again!) possible for a ‘do-it-all’ bike:

https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/can-you-just-have-one-bike-does-everything

I do find myself changing bars, saddle, tyres and mudguards between winter and summer, but that’s about it. It’s of course a compromise compared to a big stable of bikes for every narrow niche, but not having much space or budget I just keep a SS aggressive hardtail (as it is, all year round) plus the Longitude with it’s own wardrobe of parts for everything from keep-fit, all day trails, to bikepacking/touring 🙂

I think the matter of ‘compromise’ with any ‘one bike’ is more keenly felt by competitive riders.

Most of the time I just need to be able to get two-three weeks groceries

a full day out* on all-terrain, or a quick fire-road blast.

(when that option next becomes available 🙄)

I don’t feel compromised at the minute, but I might if I was personally fast and light. Before all this viral business I went out on a 531 20lb Audax I have squirrelled away. Even though mechanically perfect, it felt horrible because I’m so unfit and mechanically imperfect🤣

i was hoping to give gravel biking a go this weekend but a short walk confirms i still have more recovery to do post surgery.
still, that gives me more time to look at gravel shorts and gravel shoes as im confident my current mtb gear will not be suitable.
i thought i would plan a route on Komoot last night, came out at 148km, probably need to re-think it.

Depends what you mean by “relevant” if what you really mean is “useful” then yes, they’re fantastically useful bikes. Certainly more useful that a 7″ travel Gnarpoon, when the apocalypse strikes and all you can really do is ride local bridalways and backlanes from your doorstep. They are, of course, completely differnt bikes though.

Gravel bikes are basically a 90’s rigid MTB, with drop bars…

The same comparison I’ve often made on similar Gravel bike threads.
Oddly enough, back in the 90’s I mostly rode my rigid MTB from my doorstep too… Crazy eh?

I’m surrounded by Sustrans routes, bridleways, country parks and towpaths.

I may have missed the memo telling everyone gravel bikes were irrelevant.

Similar here.
Either Kent is actually hell on Earth or some people are significantly lacking in imagination…

conversation over?
doesnt score very high on the Rad-o-meter though

Gravel (or whatever) doesnt half get sh1t on the various forums these days for its niche, and I know not everyone owns one. You ride what you have. But for me it’s the smartest development cycling has had for a while. Versatility, simplicity and fun from the door without the faff.

i thought i would plan a route on Komoot last night, came out at 148km, probably need to re-think it.

Hah, that’s Gravel for me, road bike distances but on a mix of on and off road. It’s opened up some amazing routes in the highlands that just wouldn’t have appealed on the MTB, and wouldn’t have been possible on the road bike.

I stripped down my (rigid) MTB and road bike in February – mixed and matched bits, bought a few second bits, some new tyres and road pull calipers. Voila!

Perfect timing, as it turned out – faster than the mountain bike; more comfortable than the road bike; well suited to the quiet lanes and rough tracks I can ride from home; stiff enough to take a rack and panniers for shopping duties.

Done over 500km in the last month even obeying the letter and spirit of the lockdown regs. Really enjoying riding it, in fact off now for my hour having been at work since 06:00.