whomever said the schlecks were dope free –

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A4nk_Schleck#Doping_allegations

doesnt mean they still do now but clearly a bank trasfer of 7000euros was proven a few years back to a doctor!

if everyone dopes can it be classed as cheating? why not allow so much per rider you know, to make it fair and that

You’d still have to test them to make sure one wasnt cheating more than the other!

Tbh, I think that its a lot cleaner than it used to be. No more team wide systematic doping like there used to be. It looks like there’s been a change in the culture. Sure there are still people doing it, but cyclists are tested more often than any other athletes in the world (probably) so its bound to throw up more +’ve results.

The general opinion here is that all the Sky/British riders are clean, but as mentioned above, Wiggins is viewed with a bit of a suspicious eye after his rise to GC contender 2 years ago.

testers have always been one step behind the dopers

Not true. CERA. Nasty suprise for the dopers there and a good change in direction for the drug company who didn’t want their product associated with cheats… There’s talk about similar products having markers deliberately added to them (though no doubt a black market will rise which removes them/makes it without.

Clean! compare the times on the big climbs. Evans has actually dropped a tiny bit in performance, but others have fallen off cliffs by comparison. See the bike radar thread for more info
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12791982

The verdict is more than likely the cleanest tour since about 89 (imo) 😉

Yes, I think Cadel was a clean winner.

And The Shreks are dirty losers 😀

Where was he on that list that was leaked a while ago, it was showing how the tour organisers had rated potential dopers.
IMO he’s clean.

Elfinsafety – Member
But hold on, Bertie never tested positive for owt for his two Tour wins previous to last year, did he?

So, as ‘clean’ as Cuddle was this year then.

So yes, it is possible to win a Grand Tour ‘clean’; Bertie has proven this, hazzunt he?

Elfy, no doubt you just want an argument so I’ll leave it at this

My link earlier about the relative levels of riders and performances is for me good enough to believe that AC and AS (amongst many others) were doping previously. Also google VAM as a measure of cycling performance at the TdF – there’s been a consistent drop in VAM performance over the last few years as the EPO test, blood doping tests and biological profiles were introduced forcing the dopers to either stop or at worst use much less effective methods such as microdosing.

Added to that is the change to the way the TdF ran this year – for the first time in years, riders attacked and then paid for the efforts the next day – EPO, blood doping, etc is well known for not only improving overall performance but almost as significantly improving ability to recover.

I don’t like Cadel at all. Charsma-free wheel-sucker.. But I think he is clean.

I’ve never believed Contador, Armstrong or Landis were clean.

Cav would be a pretty poor doper to come in outside the time limit twice. Not sure about Wiggins at all.

I’d like to think clean.

By the way, what does GC stand for? I’m assuming it means to win the yellow jersey, but I can’t work out the acronym.

By the way, what does GC stand for? I’m assuming it means to win the yellow jersey, but I can’t work out the acronym.

General Classification, as opposed to the Young Riders Classification, Points Classification or the Mountains Classification.

General classification.

I believe Armstrong is clean. Because it’s nice to believe it. I believe Cadel is clean. Because it’s nice to believe it. The fact that there’s never been any conclusive evidence to suggest they aren’t is not really relevant to me.

I feel sorry for the people who think everyone is cheating. I’d rather be inspired by people doing extraordinary feats with nothing more then what I have (apart from a slightly nicer bike, team of mechanics, support car, etc. etc.), even if it means being disappointed once in a while.

Being extremely cynical might mean you’re right, but I bet I enjoy watching them fly up the mountains more.

Most normal people say General classification. Sean Kelly seems to always refer to it as the General Classement, which to me sounds a bit odd but I am willing to concede that he knows better.

Clean I reckon. TBH I didn’t see anything that shouted drugs all tour utill the first Schleck attack. Kinda reminded me of the Vino episode.
Not saying owt or nowt, but oh the ironing.

Leaving the morality aside for a moment vino was proper entertaining though.

TBH I didn’t see anything that shouted drugs all tour utill the first Schleck attack. Kinda reminded me of the Vino episode.

What hinted towards drugs for me this tour was when Andy said he didn’t want Contador to get banned, as he wanted to win the tour “properly” ie: beat Contador. But everyone knows Contador is cheating, so why would you care if you beat him or not? Unless you’re also on them..

I might just be reading too much into it though.

Cadel is an ex mountain biker and really want to like him, support him and agree he’s clean …

But like it’s been said, he didn’t shine as a star for me, he lacks character, seems to lack balls and I just can’t picture him as a great. He’s boring and races the percentages game just a little to much. Which actually probably means he’s squeaky clean.

I disagree, though I thought that years ago. But the blokes always there. His Worlds victory is a fine example of that.
And he is a tough little ****er, think last years broken arm stage and this going after Gilbert on day one.
And TBF he did have his work cut out watching the brothers, it was two against one in every mountain stage
A good rider I reckon.

Assuming that Cadel is clean, is he the first ever rider to win the TdF without using performance enhancing drugs?

I’m sitting here in work and can’t remember the sequence of who has won over the last few years, but on the whole the winners seem to have either been disqualified or admitted to doping later (a la Riis) or be under massive amounts of suspicion ( a la Armstrong).

(I’m talking about the actual person who stands on the podium at the end of the race, not the one who inherits the win after the winner is DQd.)

But everyone knows Contador is cheating

Do they?

What if he’s actually not though? I mean, what if he’s cleared?

What are you going to bitch and whine about then?

I believe Armstrong is clean. Because it’s nice to believe it. I believe Cadel is clean. Because it’s nice to believe it. The fact that there’s never been any conclusive evidence to suggest they aren’t is not really relevant to me.

Erm not even the fact that pretty much all of Armstrong’s team-mates have bin found guilty of cheating? So, he was helped to win the Tour by riders who were cheats. What does that make of his ‘victories’?

Remember Armstrong has never said he never doped, just that he ‘never tested positive’….

Elfy, no doubt you just want an argument

Who, me? 😯

Never.

But seriously though; Contador has at least two Tour wins where he wasn’t tested positive for any substances. So, that’s two Tour wins ‘clean’ then. It is, so be quiet.

Plus he’s a better rider than Cuddle or Schlepps will ever be.

Remember Armstrong has never said he never
doped, just that he ‘never tested positive’ … .

he did actually. not that I believe him.

But seriously though; Contador has at least two
Tour wins where he wasn’ t tested positive for
any substances. So, that’s two Tour wins ‘clean’
then. It is, so be quiet.

that’s clearly proof 😉 I’ll stand by the details I posted.

You can stand by a telephone box for all I care.

Munqe-chick – Member
one of only a few podiumists to never have been tainted (along with the schleck sisters who also display a lack of testosterone).

wasnt Frank Schleck linked to Operation Puerto ??? (paid Fuentes 7000 euro for training ‘advice’)

Evans is a hard b’stard , look at his worlds ride and the stade bianche stage of the giro last year in the pissing rain. Fleche this year and the way he chased AS down in the tour for over an hour , no help, didnt look for it with 10 GC contenders sat on his wheel. Top ride in Tirreno.

Also much talk of Sassi (RIP) only working with clean riders. They do exists, look at Mottet, Hampsten, Boardman. Look at the way Evans has always been there but not quite good enough. Look at the significantly slower times up the climbs this year.

Chuffed for Cadel. Top win , he’s a bit weird but nails.

Instinct says – Clean.
I’ve got a feeling that a lot of decent riders this year were clean too …

i think you will find that most riders are on something, it is a fine line between what is allowed and what is not. Exercise induced asthma is not unusual in the pro peleton and does allow the use of certain drugs. There have been vitamin injections in the past.

were riders riding with the rules this year i think on the whole yes, there will always be the odd rider who pushes the limits a bit too far.

CE was clean all along I reckon – rest too this year or at least much cleaner

Clean. Though I’m not completely confident about that, there seems a pretty good chance he is. If so, he’s almost certainly the first ever clean winner of the TdF IMHO. Unless I’ve missed something, the difference between cuddles and the rest is that there’s never even been any dodgy rumours about him.

mrmo – I’m sure that’s right. I’ve a feeilng there’s more hypothyroid sportsmen taking thyroxine than you’d imagine too, dunno about cyclists in particular though (I think deficiency’s possibly a real effect of hard exercise but didn’t look all that hard into it – just heard something said once)

I’ve always thought Evans was probably clean. There’s a few comments about him probably being the only clean winner for years, what about Sastre? I’ve not seen anything about him and doping.

i hate cadel evans. that is all.

Unless I’ve missed something, the difference between cuddles and the rest is that there’s never even been any dodgy rumours about him.

Oh, and that definitely proves he’s clean, then? 🙄

What a lot of nonsense on this thread.

Ooh the rider I like well he’s nice so can’t possibly be doping….

Idle Jon see article link in earlier post of mine reviewing past podiums. Though I don’t think it mentions mandy schweppes paying fuentes which I’ve read elsewhere.
I’d like to think Gilberts amazing season was clean too as he has always been vocally anti and the way he duffed up the schweppes sisters at L-B-L.

Ooh the rider I like well he’s nice so can’t possibly be doping….

more “the rider whose performance hasn’t gone to shit this year while under lots of apparently new lab testing methods and who’s not been under plausible suspicion in the past…”
(besides, I don’t think he’s that nice by all accounts)

TBH I think Bertie was affected by all the media attention, all the negative vibes from the crowds, not to mention possibly being hungover from winning the Giro. If you take into account the time he lost on the first stage, through no fault of his own, and the fact he crashed and done his knee in, then tbh he had an amazing Tour to come in 5th. Take away the 1’30” he lost on Stage 1, and he’d have podiumed.

And I imagine he, of all people, mustuv bin clean. No way he’d even think about doping, not with all that going on. Surely not?

I’d like to see him cleared, then go on to win the Tour again, ‘clean’. Then the haterz will have to shut up and find something else to bitch and whine about.

And I’d right laugh if Cuddle tested positive…

When you consider the huge leaps in research and information available to hone athletes via ‘conventional’ training methods incorporating diet, psychology and not to mention equipment, the lack of any real improvement or in many cases a decrease in performance, would lead me to the conclusion that most of the top guys are much cleaner than they used to be.

In saying that, I mean they are having to be so careful that any illegal enhancement is having a lesser and lesser effect to the point where the benefits/risk ratio makes doping non-viable.

I think Evans may actually be clean!

Elf – agreed, I think bertie was prob clean too this time and he’s a bloody great cyclist, of course, but not way ahead like he’d seemed to be in the past

next year will be a (n even) better tour I think – hopefully they’ll all stay off the drugs and they’ll have a better idea of how hard they can push

(out of interest, on what grounds would you accept him being “cleared” – if he can’t identify the beef source, what else would convince you ? I’ll be bloody narked if he’s let off due to lack of evidence or they say the level was too low to be performance-enhancing unless he can show how it got there “innocently”)

Ooh the rider I like well he’s nice so can’t possibly be doping….

You’re just bitter because the rider you like got caught and is going to get DISQUALIFIED and BANNED!

Not bitter at all. I just love a bit of pantomime, that’s all. And the fact that Bertie winds some of you lot right up.

He’ll still be a better rider than Cuddle or Shlepps will ever be, and you know it.

And I’ll still recognise his two ‘clean’ Tour wins even if he is found guilty. That’s two more Tour wins than you’ll ever have. If he has a poo, it would be ‘Tour de France Winner’ poo, whereas your poo is just poo.

Actually I was well pleased for Cuddle, but there you go.

When he’s on the juice He’ll still be a better rider than Cuddle or Shlepps will ever be when they’re clean

FTFY

And I’ll still recognise his two ‘clean’ Tour wins even if he is found guilty.

Really! Or did he just have better drugs and wasn’t caught.

IMO all previous results are virtually worthless, or at best devalued, of anyone who is caught.