@dansw13 Exactly the same thought here.

Which is why some airlines are more expensive than others – they don’t sweat their crews quite so much.

The EASA flight time limitation changes haven’t helped one bit either. Take a look at this:

4.30pm to 1am
4.30pm 1am
11.20am to 7.15pm
7am to 5pm
5.30am to 2pm
4.30am to 2pm

This an example of the hours my wife is flying this month. As Flaperon said, it is a well paid job, but I think I would rather have a fresh pilot than a well paid tired one.

The RAF is an option, she won’t get a civilian licence but her hours would allow her to sit the exams to then gain her licences. And contrary to what another poster wrote, if she doesn’t go fast jet she wouldn’t be killing anyone. They have glorified airline pilots too.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking someone can join the forces with a vague notion of not being prepared to kill the enemy.

Everyone who joins the forces is taught how to use a personal weapon and many of the helicopters carry defensive machine guns when deployed into warzones.

The pilots on the new P8 will basically be flying 737’s except they will be looking for submarines and will carry weapons capable of destroying them.

A friend – who has a multi-millionaire father – opted to earn his stripes by flight training around the Mediterranean islands. He could have thrown money at it but didn’t.

He has yet to secure a job with one of the big players and is subsequently spending IRO a week at a time running routes around the med and sometimes the mainland.

He has no urgency to earn big money as his huge home and lifestyle is pretty much paid for. He’s in it more for the enjoyment.

Really? Wasn’t aware of that after 22 years service. Well I never.

Back to the original point, if she went into the RAF and looked into the air transport route then she could be sat quite happy flying a wide variety of transport aircraft, yes she will be trained on how to use a weapon. But in my time I’ve not heard of a single voyager pilot who has us to shoot someone.

Anyway, it may be a cheaper option but would very well be a longer option. However she would gain a huge raft of experience that would set her in good stead to join the civilian market all the while getting paid a healthy wage.

And contrary to what another poster wrote, if she doesn’t go fast jet she wouldn’t be killing anyone. They have glorified airline pilots too.

can you really go into the recruiting office and be that specific?

This an example of the hours my wife is flying this month

4.30pm to 1am 8.5 hours
4.30pm 1am 8.5 hours
11.20am to 7.15pm 7.75 hours
7am to 5pm 10 hours
5.30am to 2pm 8.5 hours
4.30am to 2pm 9.5 hours

Am I the only one that thinks this doesn’t sound very onerous?

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

@poly no, you get streamed at the end of elementary flying training. They take into account all the tests and reports from selection, leadership course and EFT (if it’s called that now). Then they stream you, you have a say but if you’re exceptional then you’ll most likely go fast jet, but it all depends on your ability and where the greater need is.

Like I said, the longest route, but it’s always worth a conversation. UAS is also a good shout. But apart from military aviation, it’ll require either a scholarship or serious cash.

To the OP; good luck to her whatever she chooses, I miss flying. Being on the ground sucks.

The trouble with the civil route is that the student, or more usually the parent, bears the financial risk.

If all goes well, student gets licence, joins airline, pays back c£100,000, and has a long, rewarding career. Possibly goes part time, opportunity to live abroad, train etc. After a few years, that training loan is quickly forgotten.

Alternative scenario, student gets licence, still owes c£100,000. But can’t get job, loses medical, graduates before another Sept. 11th type event etc., etc.

I’m not going to comment on the likelihood of each scenario, but there is a risk, and quite often it’s the parents who are bearing that risk; unlike a university graduate’s debt, this one will be repaid. If she could finish training tomorrow, she’d likely be offered a job immediately in what is a fast growing market.

I’ve not heard of a single voyager pilot who has us to shoot someone.

I thought there was this one time when a maitre d’ was ritually put to death by a flight crew for serving their steaks a little bit pink?

Am I the only one that thinks this doesn’t sound very onerous?

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Really? 🙁

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Walk in the park ain’t it – just press the big “auto pilot” button and put yer feet up. 🙄

Jeez.

If she is 15yo is it worth considering the air cadets? They should give her an opportunity to fly gliders and a taster of military life. It’s free to join and if she hates it she can just leave.

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Yeah you’re probably right. Easy job, no consequence if you have a bad day and heck the planes take off, fly and land themselves anyway.

Moron.

Yeah you’re probably right. Easy job, no consequence if you have a bad day and heck the planes take off, fly and land themselves anyway.

Where did I say that?

If those working hours were excessive then they would be changed as the professionalpilot on here stated

It’s the most heavily regulated job you can do.

I think it’s a high skilled, very rewarding job that is generally well paid.

Just don’t agree that pilots over stretched as one of the posts was suggesting.

If those working hours were excessive then they would be changed as the professionalpilot on here stated

The working hours can frequently be excessive as the professional pilot I’m married to and all her friends frequently comment.

Seriously, they changed the rules recently to increase the amount of duty hours a pilot can do. You’ve got pilots wandering around unable to find the milk in a shop because they’re so tired.

Mostly it will be just fine but if you think inreasing the number of hours all existing pilots are allowed to be at work for is going to increase safety then we’re just delluding ourselves.

besdies take a look at that roster again:

4.30pm to 1am
4.30pm 1am
11.20am to 7.15pm
7am to 5pm
5.30am to 2pm
4.30am to 2pm

and now factor in the fact that we have two kids under the age of nine. Home by say 1.30am, still wired, bed by maybe 2am, asleep by maybe 2.30am and then awake the next morning at 9am to report for duty at 11.20am (which means leaving by 10.30am).

That’s a pilot with maybe six hours sleep flying a few hundred people around.

And then do it again. And again.

2 of my mates became pilots, one did a degree in aeronautical engineering then got onto some ba scheme, other sold everything he had to fund himself through a course in America to get his pilots licence, did freight for a bit to get his hours up then switched to passengers. Same course the suicide bombers for twin towers did on the course before his!

I’m not in touch with the first one any longer but the second hates his job, always away, can’t plan anything re holidays days out with us lot on bikes etc

OP following up from Air Traffic Control comment above see this piece in the Telegragph, earn pilot money ? There is a big centre on the South Coast at Swanwick too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/what-it-is-like-being-an-air-traffic-controller/

Also as above I did a lot of glider flying with the Air Cadets, in my day you could sign up with Uni Air Squadron and get a PPL but I suspect that’s no more.

Same course the suicide bombers for twin towers did on the course before his!

Joking aisde its cheaper to get air hours in abroad, maybe a good wheeze for a holiday with your daughter. Gliding (sorry to keep mentioning this 😉 ) is excellent and cheap in pkaces like New Zealand or South Africa and elsewhere in Europe.

Don’t discount the military; great training and good fun plus free!

Like others have mentioned, it’s a great job, not without its downsides. I do mainly Long Haul, and am back from a New York today. Couple of days in a great city but boy, do I feel tired!

It’s stressful at times for sure, especially as a training captain(!) but I get lots of reward from seeing people improve too.

Anyway I’m too tired to add any more value to the convo!

Good luck to her (and you!) M

That’s a pilot with maybe six hours sleep flying a few hundred people around.

How much sleep do you need? 6 hours sleep is plenty.

Are you seriously trying to claim the CAA allows pilots to fly exhausted?

and now factor in the fact that we have two kids under the age of nine. Home by say 1.30am, still wired, bed by maybe 2am, asleep by maybe 2.30am and then awake the next morning at 9am to report for duty at 11.20am (which means leaving by 10.30am).

They sound like lifestyle choices to me. Is your wife a danger because of this? Why does she need to get up 1.5 hrs before leaving for work? Besides that looks like 6.5hrs sleep to me, not 6.

And then do it again. And again.

Only they don’t. They have mandatory rest days and maximum annual hours. Which is entirely sensible.

Are you suggesting that her employer should change her work pattern because you decided to have children?

I feel more at risk from a tired HGV than an “overworked” pilot.

This book was a good read for a non-pilot;

UAS Is a really good experience from what I have heard from my siblings. One of is currently trekking through North Sweden with them for FREE! Another has a bursary to be in ATC and my other sibling did so much cool stuff which I forgot. They all flew/fly tutors and if lucky will get trips in other aircraft. My Dad did it and he enjoyed it and his friend flew tornado’s then went on to BA. It’s a really good route for being a pilot in the RAF or anything RAF related. I was in Air Cadets, really annoying but the benefits such as flying and shooting are awesome (I even did a loop!). I’m still considering Uni or Pilot but UAS sounds perfect if you can’t decide. Air Cadets is taxing though, but I have heard great things about UAS and hope to join.

They sound like lifestyle choices to me.

Don’t you just love it when people, usually those without kids, lob that comment in as if the only people to benefit from the countless hours of physical and emotional effort, not to mention the serveral hundred thoudsand pounds needed to successfully raise a child into a socially useful and contributing member of society, were the parents themselves.

I’m willing to bet Gobshi…. I mean Gobuchul, that you’re twenty something and don’t have kids.

I’m also willing to bet you’re not a pilot, not married to a pilot and almost certainly don’t know any actual pilots.

Are you seriously trying to claim the CAA allows pilots to fly exhausted?

Yes that is exactly what is being claimed and being dicussed and has been raised in Parliament as an issue a lot in the run up to the change in rules.

But don’t take my word for it, read what BALPA has to say and then ask around.

BALPA concerns with pilot exhaustion

Yes that is exactly what is being claimed and being dicussed and has been raised in Parliament as an issue a lot in the run up to the change in rules.

BALPA is their Trade Union. Funny that they should suggest that they are over worked. 🙄

Are you seriously suggesting that work pattern you listed is something that happens week after week?

Pilots are limited to 1000 hours a year, which is on average about 20 hours per week flying time.

Your wife works in a heavily regulated industry, is highly trained, well paid. It is so middle class angst to suggest that she is over worked because she, on occasion, only gets 6.5 hours quality sleep. Not rest but sleep.

By the way, I didn’t insult anyone, you have insulted me twice. Why? Because I don’t agree that your snowflake wife has to work “dangerous” hours?

By the way, I didn’t insult anyone, you have insulted me twice. Why? Because I don’t agree that your snowflake wife has to work “dangerous” hours?

Only twice? Damn I must be going soft in my old age.

Ok, well re my snowflake wife, st least I’ve been able to persuade another human being that I’m worth spending the rest of their lives with.

There you go, ‘the third time pays for all’.

Hi gobuchul,

Flying hours are limited to 1,000 hours per year, duty hours are rather higher (1,880 hours). Flying hours apply (in general), from engine start to shutdown, not actual airborne hours.

The work pattern described is *exactly* something that happens week after week. Cock up your leave application (which is done the year before), and you can do that for three or four months straight. You try flipping between going to bed at 1am and two days later getting up at 3.30am four times a month and report back…

The schedule looks similar to what a military pilot can fly, mixing up day and night flying, but we did 10 hour duty days, can be increased to 12 and on operations 14 hours. That’s flying people, underslung loads, Tripp movements and weapon serials. However there was a mandated 8 hours available for rest between duty periods, with 6 for sleep.

Now I see why my front seat colleagues leave and join the civil market. Easy job, easy money.

The work pattern described is *exactly* something that happens week after week. Cock up your leave application (which is done the year before), and you can do that for three or four months straight

Still no sympathy from me.

I fly a lot and I’m not worried that the pilots are working hours like that.

st least I’ve been able to persuade another human being that I’m worth spending the rest of their lives with.

You are very insecure aren’t you!

I do kinda agree with Gobuchul here, I’m not denying it’s stressful and pressured, but it’s very well paid, most pilots I know (and I have some among very close friends) love it, and I’m just not sure the shift pattern is evidence of how ‘tough’ it is.

Geetee, it’s great you’re such a violent defender of your wife’s profession, but it’s also a bit excessive. You’d think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she’s sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

You’d think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she’s sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

His wife’s profession might explain it.

He obviously feels less of a “man” as he’s married to someone who is in a profession he isn’t capable of entering. Who basically has a certificate that indicates she is way more capable than he his.

It must really add to his feeling of inadequacy, as she leaves the house each morning, wearing 4 stripes, off to fly high tech passenger jets and earn more money than him.

Poor boy. No wonder he goes on about middle class, WASP, male oppression.

You’d think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she’s sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

I don’t think the profession needs defending but there are issues that need raising. There has been a bid to lobby parliament on this issue because the rules have changed recently. No one is saying it’s crazy tough; but what is being said is ‘watch out’; it’s getting very challenging and that will almost certainly come at a cost at some point.

I think we should all be concerned with any trend over time that sees safety critical professions being required to work more hours. There was a very similar campaign on behalf of junior doctors a few years ago. You simply can’t expect significantly increasing the work load not to have an impact on safety.

I might seem a little over zealous about it but that’s in response to gobchul suggesting (rather ignorantly I and others though) that there was no iussue.

You’d think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she’s sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

This is true. I’ve made a conscious decision to effectively put my career second to my wife’s. It wasn’t easy having invested quite so much time and effort up to that point. She does earns about 20% more than I do but good for her.

On the upside, I’ve got two fabulous sons who both adore me and I adore them. I am there with them every morning when they wake up and almost every evening when they go to bed. I always read them a story before we turn out the light and those moments when they both spontanesously grab me for a hug and say ‘I love you daddy’, without any prompting, are priceless. There isn’t a job or a salary I would trade for that.

There isn’t a job or a salary I would trade for that.

You don’t have to because the Mrs has.

Gob, enough now. You’re baiting and being a dick.

*reads first post*

*reads last post*

*wonders what the hell kicked off in the posts in the middle*

Gob, enough now. You’re baiting and being a dick

True enough.

However.

This may be absolute nonsense, but to me it would seem easier to have pilotless planes than driverless cars. If so, surely the majority of pilots’ days are numbered?

What happens to a driverless car if it fails?
What happens to an airliner?

I’m sure it will happen because it’s cheaper, and big business won’t be happy until the wage bill is Zero

GeeTee – wasting heartbeats arguing with some on here

I’m sure it will happen because it’s cheaper,

I think it is likely to happen relatively soon – because it will be safer.