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after reading anagallis_arvensis's thread I too am both pissed off with the lack of prosecutions for cars hitting cyclists and the number of near misses I experience whislt out cycling.
we have the right to cycle on all roads except motorways and cars must be encouraged to share the road, it is useless to explain the error of their ways as, you either get verbally abused,"you dont pay road tax"(it never goes down well when i say well actually I have two vehicles and therefore probably pay more than you!) or they deliberatly drive at you/swerve towards you.
these 3 default behaviours happened on Sunday on a long road ride after I said "excuse me would you mind leaving a bit more space when overtaking cyclists" to a particular driver.Unfortunately I dont have a photograpic memory or I would have reported the driver to the police. A number of other near misses happened with other vehicles just because they could be bothered to wait a few more seconds to overtake or even when they had pleanty of space still left less than a foot.
I have had enough!
I contacted the minister for road safety today jim.fitzpatrick@dft.gsi.gov.uk and would encourage all to do so both directly and via your local MP(the official way to do things)
we need a road safety campign to encourage drivers of other vehicles to share the road and give cyclists pleanty of room
I have been riding for more than 30 years and in my experience drivers are becoming less and less considerate of cyclists
lets do something about it
I always feel unsafe on the roads, because what risk there is is out of my hands and in those of careless, well-protected numpties 🙁
At least when I'm off-road I can choose the risks
Interesting in this context that there have been TV ads about looking for [b]motor[/b]bikes...
People are becoming less considerate, full stop. And driving a car has increasingly been adopted as a means by which to vent general frustration, bully and show off.
I've given up remonstraing with the idiots in their tin boxes - I tend to use a withering look and a slow shake of the head to show my disapproval.
However, with the increasing number of people on bikes (whether fro transport, sport or whatever), perhaps an equally balanced public saftey campaign out to be launched - one which addresses the sh*tty atitude of some people in cars, and the frustraing lack of engagement with road rules by some people on bikes.
I was nearly hit by three separate cars in relatively quick succession recently, but often feel no more or less safe than usual when out on the road. For me, the benefit of exercising my body and my rights is more important than the apparent risk of idiots in cars. But, by ****, there are a lot of idiots in cars....
I occasionaly venture onto the evening standards (aka Daily Mail, The Metro - given away free on all public transport) website. Some of the comments on their are ridiculous
e.g.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23629978-details/One-way+rule+to+be+waived+for+cyclists+in+City+streets/article.do
Cyclists seem to be seen as an annoyance to everyone, despite posing virtually no danger.
Very, very rarely.
Had someone fully open a car door on me this morning meaning I had to swerve into the middle of the lane. Luckily there was no car behind me. All the idiot could do was yell "jesus"
A bit further on I was cycling in the left hand lane about 5 feet out from the kerb. A girl on the pavement was walking in the same direction I was cycling, about 20 feet ahead of me. As I approached her she stepped off the pavement without looking, and continued across the lane I was in, again paying no attention as she was constantly looking left. Had to swerve at the last minute to avoid her.
thats why we need a rolling media campaign to keep it in the spotlight
druidh Id like to live on your planet 😉
The days when cars and bikes could share the roads are long gone. Cyclists NEED cycle lanes just to be safe, it's as simple as that.
I only ride road for "pleasure" and get to stay off busy roads so don't feel in danger - or hardly ever
But every day I drive along a stretch of A-road & see cyclists at risk. Makes me wince, esp in winter when it's darkish at peak times.
Worht noting that the road's not really wide enough for 2 cars & a bike, let along car/lorry/bike and this of course is the source of danger. It's also semi-rural, floods quite a lot at the edges and has crappy ill-defined margins.
When the occasional considerate driver waits for a decent passing place to get round a bike, they tend to generate a queue of about 30 vehicles all travelling at bike pace. I can see why this might wind up drivers but there is no realistic alternative route if you have to cycle to work. I wouldn't dare ride it.
my rule of thumb is a couple of times per long (4-5 hour) ride I'll experience a close shave with a car...
I've realised its pointless getting angry with these people, which in itself can be counterproductive if we all did this..drivers would just see cyclists as easy targets.
All I can say is, its winter, everyones stressed, dark and wet- all these things combine for drivers to make mistakes.
Ps.
Off road, your life is firmly in your hands.
On the road, your life is partly in your hands but mostly in everyone elses.
I gave over riding/racing on the roads because I was getting knocked off too often. I also saw too many get killed in "accidents". In one case there was a witness who saw a lorry deliberatley swerve into, and kill a cyclist. His evidence was discounted because he too was a cyclist, and so was considered to be biased!
GnarGnar - no way! The day we start saying this is the start of the process that will end up with cyclists being banned from the roads.
From where I live there is no possible route that I could take that would be entirely cycle lane. How do I get to work then? Do I just sack the 45 people that work for me?
Going back to th OP - apart from the 15 hours last summer when everyone loved cyclists I now find that everyday I get drivers overtaking without giving me any room at all, overtaking and turning in across me, pulling across the road to deliberately scare me, just pulling out from side roads without looking, the list goes on and on.
The days when cars and bikes could share the roads are long gone. Cyclists NEED cycle lanes jsut to be safe, it's as simple as that.
you are missing the point, all vehicles have a duty to share the road with other road users, i dont agree with marginalising bikes, sure cycle paths should be available and funding should be there to improve and expand them but those who choose to cycle on the road have the right to be treated with repect by other road users
how often do I feel my life is in danger whilst road cycling?
Every time I hear a car coming up behind me.
Which thankfully isn't often mid-week in the North York Moors.
Drivers don't bother me at all these days...
MisterCrud - Im guessing you ride on NSL's? EEK!
I only have once and tbh it was probably as much my fault as theirs.
I'm not sure if I get given more room as I'm a girl? Or the drivers around Leeds are reasonably ok?
I am totally pro cycling here, dont get me wrong - but we are totally unprotected. We are largely incapabale of accelerating / keeping pace with traffic, at times we are difficult to see, and worst of all we pose no threat to other road users. When driving a car you only feel "threatened" for want of a better word by other cars, lorries etc. A cyclist or a pedestrian represents an obstacle whereas another vehicle represents danger.
Im not saying we should be stuck to meandering scenic cycle paths, Im saying there should be cycle paths designed and factored into town and road planning to allow bikes to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.
On the daily commute just avoiding getting knocked off is a fairly regular occurrence, at least a couple of times each way, but I've yet to feel as though my life was in danger. But then again if I was a bit of a drama queen maybe I would view things differently.
Generally people in cars are angry, they don’t want to give up their space and they want to get to where they’re going faster than the next person. Unfortunately that’s the way the roads are now, no amount of campaigns will change that. On my commute I also have lots of occasions where drivers are very courteous to me, which I always thank them for.
Non-commuting rides are all done on coutry roads and I've never had a near death experience yet.
What gets me (in the centre of Manc coming out)- a car will accelerate and cut back infront just to slam on his brakes 10m's later at the end of the queue of cars. You then sail by... why do they do that? 'Beat' the cyclist - so narrow-minded?!
What's an NSL?????????
I rarely, if ever, feel my life is in danger, but I get cut up, pushed into a gutter, shouted at by twunts for no reason, etc, often. I guess after a while you learn to cycle defensively and anticipate how and where drivers are likely to do bad things. Touch wood I've only been knocked off once, and it was partly my fault (frozen dynamo and dodgy brakes). I wonder what the demographics of this are? Would be interesting to see what the geographic spread of cycling safety is, e.g. north vs south (or south east vs everywhere else?), urban, suburban and countryside...
60mph limit- usual over moors etc.
Oh BTW- try wearing non-cyclist clothes; Tracksuit bottoms- no helmet. The more chav you look the more a car will give you a wide berth.
Cyclist gear = Geography Teacher to some drivers.
i have pretty much stopped riding on the road.
i tend to pick routes away from traffic.
i ride on the pavement too, unless it is in a busy pedestrian area.
rush hour when people are going home seems the works
****ing idiots trying to save seconds to get home quicker,
It seems to go from one extreme to another, after the Olympics, there was noticeable softening of attitude towards cyclist on the road.
Now its back to how it used to be, with your eyes on the road and your ears listening to what is going on behind you.
Only last week I had a 4x4 pull out on me from a side road, just smiled at me as if to say, what are you going to do about it!
As mentioned above, the don't care, I am in a hurry, get out of my way brigade is on the increase.
To be fair, the standard of cyclist I see riding on the road also seem to be getting worse too [I have been cycling to work daily for the last 6 odd years on, give or take, the same route] I have noticed more people cycling now than ever before.
I have lost count of the number of rlj, cyclist without lights at night, cycling on the wrong side of the roads, on the pavements, the list is endless.
hora thats because for many drivers it's all about beating someone to a space.
[i]Now its back to how it used to be, with your eyes on the road and your ears listing to what is going on behind you.[/i]
Is there another way?
If I was going to commute by bike I'd rig up a light bar to fit across the back of the thing. I'd extend it about a foot on nearside and 2ft on the offside & stick one of those bright leds on either end - whether dark or not
If dark, I'd also rig up lights to shine onto me, 1 from behind & 1 in front (reckon bike lights don't get properly processed by drivers & get lost amongst distant headlights etc)
Bottom line - I think I'd resign my job rather than ride that road
[i]I'd extend it about a foot on nearside and 2ft on the offside & stick one of those bright leds on either end [/i]
mm that would make negotiation through busy traffic quite 'interesting'.
Gary - I'd take the rough with the smooth. If I want to be treated as part of the traffic, I'll stay in the queue
(mind, it's not a highly congested route. mostly quite fast-moving)
Very, very rarely do I feel like my life is in danger when riding on the roads.
I think a lot of cyclists over estimate how visibale they actually are. Stand at the side of a busy road at night and try and spot cyclists as far away as possible, its pretty hard to spot some, especially those with only 'commuting lights' and your not even driving at the same time!
I commute every day, about 3 miles of it is through a small but busy town, i feel pretty safe but there are times when idiots overtake you on a corner or somthing and you just have to shake your head and watch them roar off.
ditto stato 😉
Sit in a car on a dark, wet night with raindrops on the windows and reflections off the roads and play spot the cyclist
I find that with a knog front flasher, a cateye flasher and a Dinotte 5W flasher I still get cars pulling out on me - I quite often can see the driver on the phone as they pull out of a side road. The more lights you have the closer people ride to you.
Last week I was cycling to work and a car pulled alongside of me, then booted it before slamming on the brakes and turning into a local car showroom car park, only he didn't pull all the way in but stopped completely across the cycle lane and half the regular road. I just managed to stop running into the back of him by about 150mm - when I went round the side and suggested that he might want to look before pulling in he told me that he'd seen me and that I couldn't ride a bike because what he had done was perfectly OK. oh - and that if I said anything to anyone he'd break both my arms and punch my face in. I do know where he works, and what he drives and he may find a polite response waiting for him one day.
Client of mine was run over and killed by a lorry driver who was seen looking at the mobile phone in his hand (assume texting or dialing a number)seconds before running over my client. As he didn't send the call/text the police couldn't prove anything as it was his word against the witnesses and he got away with a fine and a ban rather than a prision sentence.
My client had been a cyclist for 30yrs and was wearing a high vis top, helmet, never wore headphones etc and basically took road safety very seriously. He left a wife and 2 (adult) kids who 2 years on are still coming to terms with the loss.
I hope he feels guilt for the rest of his life as he has destroyed a family.
This is what stupidity and mindless driving can lead to 😯
I very rarely feel that my life is in danger, commuting into London and riding for fun in Surrey lanes.
I used to worry about ti more, but have largely given up fussing.
Its kinda common sense(to me)to make yourself more visable and I have 2 flashing lights at the rear and one on the front on whether its is day or night
bigsi - Member
Client of mine was run over and killed by a lorry driver who was seen looking at the mobile phone in his hand (assume texting or dialing a number)seconds before running over my client. As he didn't send the call/text the police couldn't prove anything as it was his word against the witnesses and he got away with a fine and a ban rather than a prision sentence.My client had been a cyclist for 30yrs and was wearing a high vis top, helmet, never wore headphones etc and basically took road safety very seriously. He left a wife and 2 (adult) kids who 2 years on are still coming to terms with the loss.
I hope he feels guilt for the rest of his life as he has destroyed a family.
This is what stupidity and mindless driving can lead to
And that right there is the reality of what you're up against on the road, and the reason I dont do it anymore.
And that right there is the reality of what you're up against on the road, and the reason I dont do it anymore.
How do you get to places?
Didnt you realise, people in cars are invincible!
Footpaths.miketually - MemberHow do you get to places?
righty - Member
Its kinda common sense(to me)to make yourself more visable and I have 2 flashing lights at the rear and one on the front on whether its is day or night
This is why i have 2 steady and 1 flashing light on the front and 1 stead and 1 flashing on the rear. I have been told be various people that i stand out but it doesn't stop people driving like ****s but then they don't seem to notice me in my car either so may be i just have an invisabilty cloak of some type.
Constantly - thats what keeps me safe. Defensive riding - assume everyone will do the most stupid thing possible and you won't be disappointed.
2 points from above - the person who nearly hit a car door. Defensive riding always ride more than a car door width from any parked cars - always look into parked cars to see if / what the occupants are doing
The person who had the woman walk out in front of him - Bell? Shout to let her know you are there?
Defensive riding is the key.
commuting to work back home there was only on set of corners i felt in danger on.
If anyone knows it, the road heading west out of Willington, South Derbyshire, past the council lorry depot/gravel pit? an over the dual carridgeway (A38?). Feking council lorries give you about 3inches before they pul in o you, add tot hat the morons coming off the dual carridgeway ad its a recipie for dissaster.
So on average could expect to very nearly end up in a hedge at least once a day (30 miles), 75% of those case on that same half mile of road.
Since moving down south im failry certain my lifes permenantly in danger, the standard of driving is absolutely shocking!
three times today. each time someone turning across me at lights. rode 30km into and around munich. unfortunately you are not allowed to ride on the road if cycle paths are provided. these cycle paths are ideal for families or those that pootle but build up any speed and it's not much fun.
you have two four lane road, parked cars then cycle path shared with pedestrians. so imagine
lane-lane-parked cars-bit of grass 1m wide-cycle lane/pavement
you are obscured by the parked cars and in germany your green light to cross comes on at the same time as for the cars travelling in the same direction as you wish to cross. cars have to give way to pedestrians and bikes but bikes move alot faster and are harder to see.
sometimes i prefer riding on road. in towns and cities it is better, i think, to be part of the traffic. in germany things are a little better than UK. drivers are for the most part more aware and forgiving of cyclists. probably because so many people cycle- almost everyone has at least one bike.
one main roads out of town there is more often than not a cycle path provided split from traffic and a normal lanes with wide. here it is not such a problem as you are more visible due to no parked cars.
FFS. Dont get me started again..
I very rarely feel like my life is in danger when I'm cycling on roads. I agree with TJ on this one. Ride defensive
I ride defensively and never ride near enough to a car door to get knocked of.
The main point of my original post was to try and get people to make some noise and get some media coverage sometheing like the anti drink driving campaigns they were pretty hard hitting and I'm sure they had some measurable affect
I stopped riding the A39 between Minehead and Bridgwater, because of the number of cars with caravans, riding along waiting for the driver who's forgotten that he's towing something that is wider than his car scares the sh1t out of me, and no amount of defensive driving will help.
On the way home tonight:
Had a guy approach the kerb/ road
Stop
Look in my direction (700 lumen light on bars, bright red jacket, flashing armbands)
Step off the pavement,
Suddenly realise I'm approaching,
Step back on the pavement
Step back off into my path when I was about 3 feet away 😕
I've never had a "life in danger" moment but every day I see motorists and pedestrians filled with perma-rage whenever they see a cyclist. There's a couple of points on my commute where I get off the bike and cross with the green man as the junctions are bedlam. Pushing the bike across the road and if you get in a pedestrians way you can see their blood boiling and the rage building.
Surely everyone had a bike as a child and remembers the fun? 😆
Very rarely, I ride to work daily from quiet roads onto busy city approach roads and through the city centre, I'd be a nervous wreck if I did. I think I may have done briefly several years ago when I was on the bonnet of a car waiting to break both my arms an ankle, and pop my shoulders out, but then the pain took away any anxiety. Generally I find darting down busy roads quite a buzz, it's the weather I hate.
I have seen some cocklike cycling on my way home and agree that defensive riding helps but doesn't make you invincible.
The cocklike behaviour I refer to was a hybrid cyclist who overtook me in that bravado fashion without a hello in a two wide queue of traffic (I was moving) and then tried to squeeze between a bus which was pulling out and a queuing car. Needless to say he nearly got squashed, had to stop and looked like a cock giving the rest of us a bad rep.
Sort it out if you ride like a cock.
I certainly feel a heightened sense of danger when on the road, mainly because of my vulnerability. When I reflect on some of the situations I've experienced, its not too many of them when I've actually been in serious danger, but it sure felt like it at the time.
As others have said, at junctions, pinch points etc. I now ride much more defensively, occupy more of the lane and ease off the pedals. Since I've conciously started doing this I feel a lot safer and have experionced fewer problems.
Sorry GNARGNAR, but I can't agree with you. The answer is not to spend enormous amounts of money putting cycle lanes everywhere. We need to encourage drivers and cyclists to coexist peacefully, because it is possible. If we all shrug our shoulders, accept that car is king and are marginalised, society as a whole loses out. We need more cyclists on the road so that drivers know what to do when they encounter one.
I think this is a difficult and complex issue – as a driver and cyclist I will suggest that in this instance I’m a road user, as the same principles apply. As TJ said it all about defensive road use, I ride in the same style as I drive. I watch the road (and pavement) well ahead, and that can be several hundred yards, assessing the risks and dangers. I position my self appropriately on the road and clearly single my intentions.
Yes while out on the bike I recognise my vulnerability and yes some drivers do seem to pass within millimetres of my elbow and yes they do do stupid stuff in front of me. Usually I’ve anticipated this.
However if as a group we want the respect of other road users, the public at large and policy makers the we have to clean up our act – stop jumping red lights, stop riding on pavements stop abusing other road users (yes even when they deserve it) and begin earning respect
GNARGNAR - Member
Footpaths.
40 people a year are killed by cars while on verges or pavements...
My question would be this
If you have had a crash involoving another vehicle whilst on a bike whose fault was it ?
i have yet to have a bike accident when it was my fault and I suspect that is the reality for the vast majority of us hence we sadly all need to be nervous on the roads
I don't get this commuting angst - I've ridden into the centre of Nottingham for 3 years now, had a few near misses but have never got stressed about it - I make errors as a rider and as a car driver, so do others. I might swear under my breath, but the one time I did "have a word" it was a waste of my time and breath.
I make sure I'm well lit and visible, I ride assertively but [u]never[/u] aggressively, I assume that everyone else is an idiot who doesn't expect a cyclist to travel at 15-20 mph, but I never feel any more in danger on the bike than I do in the car when commuting.
Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And before you all start, two friends of mine have been killed while cycling, I fully understand the risks, believe me.
Wot swadey said. I had to go into town today and had the choice of car, bus or bike. I took the bike. If I thought my life was in danger, I wouldn't have.
Is this a familiarity thing? Do those that do lots of road miles just feel more comfortable?
[i]Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.[/i]
I used to do this. I've stopped now, I feel way better.
🙂
GNARGNAR - Member
Footpaths.
miketually - Member40 people a year are killed by cars while on verges or pavements...
Yes, and I think the number of cyclists killed on the road is in the high hundreds is it not?
No, GNARGNAR, its not. 137 in 2007. Still 137 too many, mind. 1432 car users, 646 pedestrians and 588 motorcyclists in the same year. Do these stats make you think about whether we should try to change peoples attitude towards road safety?
The days when cars and bikes could share the roads are long gone.
I agree totally. Not sure why everybody else is having a go at you. The obvious solution being to ban cars from the roads.
RichPenny - Member
No, GNARGNAR, its not. 137 in 2007. Still 137 too many, mind. 1432 car users, 646 pedestrians and 588 motorcyclists in the same year. Do these stats make you think about whether we should try to change peoples attitude towards road safety?
RichPenny -Sorry GNARGNAR, but I can't agree with you. The answer is not to spend enormous amounts of money putting cycle lanes everywhere. [b]We need to encourage drivers and cyclists to coexist peacefully[/b], because it is possible. If we all shrug our shoulders, accept that car is king and are marginalised, society as a whole loses out. We need more cyclists on the road so that drivers know what to do when they encounter one.
I dont object to what you're saying - I just know it wont happen, or cant happen in the current climate. I simply cannot see any way that what you're suggesting can happen.
For a period last year when fuel was a bit more realistically priced people seemed to drive slower, a bit more considerately and actually leave their car at home for the 800m school run - unless that also corresponded with the 15 hours of cyclists being loved during the Olympics.
A vast majority of cyclists put themselves at risk. I won't even try to claim you all do but I don't believe everybody here knows the ins and outs of assertive cycling.
Get trained, swallow your pride and learn from a really good instructor. Your council might be even running a scheme to cover the cost, mine does. Get a trainer to go through the entire National Standard with you, level 1 to 3, step by step. Take your time and you'll rip the benefits.
I ride my bike on the streets of London and Middlesex with a baby at the back quite a lot. Quiet roads, busy roads, all of them. I'm not a genius, but I know what I'm doing.
And get trained to ride a motorbike. I'll sharpen your mind in no time.
Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
so the drivers see something in their body language and think, "I've got to get [b]THEM[/b]!" ?
The obvious solution being to ban cars from the roads.
it was a retrograde step when they stopped having to have a man walking in front with a red flag 🙁
A vast majority of cyclists put themselves at risk
we should have known it was all our fault:-(
Simon, haven't you ever seen anybody with a big hood on, headphones on and a can of Stella in hand cycling down an A road?
Simon, haven't you ever seen anybody with a big hood on, headphones on and a can of Stella in hand cycling down an A road?
no, but I don't get out much. But surely that's not typical ?
it was a can of cider actually.....
do admit i ride with big fegg off head phones on sometimes, keeps my ears warm. not too loud mind...
headphones on
does this imply deaf people can be killed with impunity ? I'm not sure how being able to hear helps, you may hear a vehicle behind, but you cannot tell if it's going to hit or just overtake...
Trouble with the UK as i see it are the roads are narrow and very full of cars, so i cant ever see it getting better so its always a risk, at least on an MTB there are few cars on the trails!!!!
Having said that i live in Christchurch NZ the rds are a lot wider usually with a cycle lane + a hard shoulder and generally fewer cars. BUT drivers still get pissed off with cyclist and complain that they are an inconvienience (which is valid sometimes when you come up behind a bunch 3 wide and spread out) so its the same the world over - car big, bike small it will never get better.
I was thinking on the way in this morning. I never filter on the inside of cars in town/city. Never. If its a line of traffic I will go up and over and if the traffic sets off prematurely I'll ride parrallel then slot back in. If its not possible I will sit a cars length behind the last car in the centre of the car. I feel going up and over naturally meets a car drivers eyeline/field of vision whereas in righthand drive cars on lefthand lanes you naturally DONT look to the inside do you?
filtering is too dangerous IMO- cars cut in due to checking to their right/obstacles.
Ride safe (cheesy Americanism!)
OK - an example from this morning's commute
Had my closest near miss for ages - van pulled out in front of me, his mate followed without looking and stopped inches from my back wheel.
I was shocked. I was angry. I shouted a word that has no place in a public space at 7.10am so loudly I shocked myself (apologies, residents of Ilkeston town centre). I was full of adrenalin for the rest of the commute.
Did I fear for my life the rest of the commute? No
Am I fearing riding home tonight? No
apologies, residents of Ilkeston town centre
LOL, I'm sure they have heard worse!
Is Ilkeston like Todmorden? If so surely Swadey would only have offended husbands of daughters and brothers of Wives? 8)
[i]Had a guy approach the kerb/ road
Stop
Look in my direction (700 lumen light on bars, bright red jacket, flashing armbands)[/i]
Perhaps they were blinded by your 700 lumen light - I'd imagine most cars drivers are too. Yes you need to be seen but you also need to be careful you're not blinding other road users.
For the type of riding I do, parked cars are the biggest hazard. I got knocked off my bike once by someone opening their door - I just heard a bang, next thing I know I am lying on the road on my back, facing the way I had just come, with my bike about two metres away. I was clipped slightly and went over the bars. I was lucky not to be more seriously injured, but now I scan cars for occupants and give them a wide berth. Defensive cycling is definitely the key.
I do get the impression that most drivers do not enjoy driving however, and are in a state of continuous borderline anger and frustration. How else to explain the compulsive desire to accelerate madly out of one set of lights, only to brake ten metres down the road at the next set of lights. .