It only existed in your imagination?
Went pretty much from bullhorns and Ron Hills.
To fluoro lycra.
To middle aged IT workers.

haha!

It was supposed to be slightly tongue in cheek, although I think MTBing used to be taken less seriously (remember those old Mud Cows/Sprung/Cranked videos?!). I guess that’s the problem though, it’s now a proper sport.

But at the same time, they could tell their sponsors to go **** themselves. MTBing has got so corporate; what’s happened to the punk rock attitude?!

Sure they could, same as we could tell our bosses or customers to go **** themselves if they expect something we’re not happy with. I guess they don’t for the same reasons we don’t. These guys might be on another planet as far as riding bikes goes, but they’re just like us when it comes to needing to make a living.

EDIT What deviant said basically!

They could just jack it in and get a proper job 😉

I think the real problem is the perceived importance and hype lead to a lot of pressure to perform for the riders, winning/placing matters too much IMO…

It’s not really very “Freeride” anymore.

Dare I say it the winning shouldn’t matter, nor should watching someone attempt videogame-esq 50+ foot gaps and barely polished tricks with severe penalties for failure in some vain attempt to pique the cameras interest…

When style, expression and smoothness matter less than sticking some ridiculous FMX derived move, the sport has lost its way…

One simple thing they could do, is take it out of the FMB world tour. With it being a diamond event, it creates a real 2-tier series and that’s got to put real pressure on competitors to take part. Don’t think the event itself needs to be tied into the series, and in some ways it probably hurts it- and I’m not convinced the series benefits from it either.

i cant be todged to read everyones responses, someone may have already said it but:

I know they’re slightly improving on the stunts every year, but it’s still effectively identical to the year before.

Surely you could apply this to ever sport??

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF_uOgyBK1c[/video]

A blind man on a galloping horse can see there’s been massive progression year on year at Rampage.

One simple thing they could do, is take it out of the FMB world tour. With it being a diamond event, it creates a real 2-tier series and that’s got to put real pressure on competitors to take part. Don’t think the event itself needs to be tied into the series, and in some ways it probably hurts it- and I’m not convinced the series benefits from it either.

This.

It’s big enough to be a standalone event with specialists in this field of big mountain riding….Berrecloth, Zink, Lacondegeuy etc….

I was chuffed to bits when Sam Pilgrim won the FMB world tour in 2013 but I’ve hated seeing him ride Rampage the couple of times he’s done it….he’s mature enough now to sit it out, I respect him more for admitting to hating Rampage and going against the ‘cool kid’s’ consensus.

In a way I think WC downhillers are probably in their more natural element at Rampage than traditional HT Slopestyle riders…Semenuk has made the switch brilliantly but Fairclough, Atherton, Gracia….even Ben Reid when he did it, seem more comfortable on the big bikes and the big chutes, drops etc…it should go the way of Hardline, not linked to a series but great publicity for the riders and sponsors.

For me this year’s highlight was Sam Reynolds, from dirt jumper to Slopestyle to Rampage….that’s some progression but then I honestly believe he’s unhinged! Haha….love his YouTube vids though.

I’d like to see Atherton back there, his practice videos from Hardline were just mental…shame he punctured in the final run….loved seeing Fairclough throw a backflip, he’s a savvy boy….must’ve realised last year he needed a flip to compete with the big names…almost a shame it’s gone that way but he did what’s necessary I suppose!?

Who’s the incredibly talented Dirt/Orange rider who has put out some top videos this year?…Phil Atwill!….there’s someone who should be doing Rampage!
Anyway, more a stream of consciousness than a coherent post but it’s Sunday night and I’ve had a great weekend of MTBing, watched Rampage Friday and rode Antur on Saturday….we’ll be having this thread again in 12 months time I’m sure.

I’m not sure rampage does anything to advance bike technology either. How smart does a bike have to be to be jumped and landed heavily? dh world cup is where bike tech is developed.

As someone who also enjoys motorcycle racing I can see parallels between Rampage & the Isle of Man TT.Both events are unique & both have potentially massive penalties for failure.Years ago the TT was a world championship round but the event got downgraded & went it’s own way.British riders were ‘encouraged’ to race there as it’s such a big part of the British motorcycle racing season & carries a lot of kudos for the manufacturers.A lot of people thought it would die out after it’s 100th anniversary but over the last decade it’s raised it’s profile again in its own unique way.Maybe the organisers of Rampage should take note.

It only existed in your imagination?
Went pretty much from bullhorns and Ron Hills.
To fluoro lycra.
To middle aged IT workers.

Thankfully I can’t really remember you in lycra 😆

Since the early 90’s MTB has gone from bum bags, miss-matched lycra, water bottles and riding uphill fast to…..exactly the same albeit slightly looser lycra. ‘Enduro’ has certainly killed any chance of mountain biking ever being cool again.

I have photos still 😀

I suppose for me this just highlights the dangers of allowing our sport to be controlled by corporate interests, rather than by riders. BMX has dealt with this very effectively. The contests/events are run by riders. The companies are owned by riders. They are not part of multi-million dollar investment groups. The BMX media is far more small scale, localised, run by riders. There are of course exceptions to this (X games, GT BMX etc) but largely, BMX culture is led by riders themselves, people who are actively and personally involved in riding BMX. Riders have created the Jam format to make things more mellow and relaxed. Contests are very much secondary to video parts (which come with their own pressures of course).

Everyone in BMX, I’m sure, is making less money, but maybe that’s ok.

We support this corporate situation when we buy stuff from non rider owned companies (of which admittedly there are relatively few!)

Well having just watched the TV replay you see more but it only conveys about 70% of the scale, difficulty and balls involved. I can’t wait for next year, for those hating on Red Bull, these guys are putting a lot of money in and making the coverage work.

In some ways if there were no sponsors and no TV would the guys still be building or riding in the red dirt?
I think some would be but the progression would probably not be there
[url=https://flic.kr/p/zXXuYH]Mod-3266[/url] by Mike Smith, on Flickr

Is it progression though, to do a trick that you’ve done a thousand times on something smaller just over a big gap?

Rampage is a real exhibition of bravery and high consequence riding. I’d never ever consider any of it!! But for me it’s no where near as entertaining to watch as something like Hard line. I found that brilliant to watch, and really enjoyed the variety of the riding the course required.

Maybe it’s because I “grew up” watching Josh Bender etc doing these huge drops etc, that I’ve seen the kind of riding that Rampage involves and the freshness has gone?

But I don’t for a second take away from they riders who do it, I’m speaking as a spectator only.

Really hope that the terrible injury to Paul Bass. isn’t as severe as we all worry it may in fact be.

mikewsmith – Member
for those hating on Red Bull, these guys are putting a lot of money in and making the coverage work.

I don’t think anyone is questioning how much money they are spending (which no doubt they can justify in terms of advertising). People are questioning whether the money being spent on the athletes, are they airbrushing out the bad news about PB’s injury, does the prize money justify the risk, is the format too pressurized etc etc

Redbull appear to have made no comment on Paul Basagotia’s injury and rumour has it they knew he was seriously injured during the event but had the announcers state he was okay.

In some ways if there were no sponsors and no TV would the guys still be building or riding in the red dirt?

They’d be doing it somewhere. 100%.

I didn’t like the fact that they basically take a hill and change it completely from its natural state

Which hills do you ride on that aren’t changed completely from their “natural state”?

TBH it’s really too early to be talking much about Paul Bas’s injury, it’d be good to have an acknowledgement from Red Bull but everyone’s a long way from knowing what the outcome is for him so going further than that. (IANAD; apparently it’s common after thoracic spine injuries to have temporary losses of function and sensation but often it simply recovers, and that fits with the comment that he’s recovering sensation. So it’s a “best wishes” situation if you like, rather than a “what do we do”)

The other thing about his injury, is that in the end, it was “just” a high speed crash- sure it came off the big step down but he landed it, and binned it down on the flat. In other words, it’s not a “rampage specific” thing, like say coming up short on the big gap and falling in the canyon; it’s the sort of injury that can happen any time you crash a mountain bike fast. Probably doesn’t make any difference to him but I think does come into it when you’re talking “is rampage too dangerous”.

Quite an interesting article here, especially some of the comments below it regarding photographers on riders lines.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Opinion-When-Does-Risk-Outweigh-the-Reward-How-Red-Bull-Rampage-Changed-Our-Perspective,932

I’m not sure rampage does anything to advance bike technology either. How smart does a bike have to be to be jumped and landed heavily? dh world cup is where bike tech is developed

If anything it’s a regression (based on industry hype)

26 inch wheels and certain manufacturers saying no carbon frames!

Good article. Didn’t know about the insurance/not being able to take pics of broken riders…

Bit of positive news on Paul from Tippie’s instagram feed . . . https://instagram.com/p/9AQyt5pDAK/ So glad things are moving in the right direction for him – fingers crossed.

It seems like maybe there’s a conversation Cam Zink and his wife should have had a while back, or maybe have already had but not to everyone’s satisfaction?

The video Cam’s 100foot backflip stunt shows his wife while he’s rolling in, she’s in tears.

Good article. Didn’t know about the insurance/not being able to take pics of broken riders…

yeah, I have to say that’s changing my opinion of the event somewhat. I get the feeling they are being exploited.

I’ve often wondered how people on Jackass or Nitro Circus pay the inevitable medical bills, but at least they get all the money from the show.

I won’t be watching it again

1) I don’t like watching riders trying stuff where the penalties for failure are so high and margins of safety are so low. A bit of risk ‘Id’ never do that’ is fine, ‘that’s just bloody stupid’ not.

2) RedBull seem to be putting their commercial interests over rider safety and care for those injured.

I love Rampage but find it a bit soulless in the current format.

As others have already said, I’d like:
– Rider judged- best trick, best line (build), best line (rider)
– “Jam” format
– Standalone showcase of riding and passion, i.e. no FMB points
– More intimate (if that is the right word!) coverage. It is so hard to appreciate what you are watching.
– Looser time format. The live format puts way too much pressure on the build and riders adding unnecessary risk.

It sounds like FEST but that isn’t what I have in mind. I’m thinking more like Nine Knights. Huge opportunity for media coverage (make sure everyone has a cam and compile the footage as RB wish, plus get a better “behind the scenes” understanding as a viewer) so RB don’t lose money but not in a way that adds pressure to fit schedules. That must encourage more creativity and foster a better feeling amongst the riders too without taking anything away from RB you’d have thought?

Likewise the ‘just go home’ comment….as far as i know the only true Rampage privateer so to speak is Wil White, the rest of the riders are employed/sponsored….if they just go home because they dont like it sponsors cut them loose…that means no money coming in, no high production cost Youtube vids for next years contract negotiations etc….some of these guys have wives and kids, its their job and they are effectively contracted into doing Rampage.

Another thing to consider is how it may affect the riders to “back out” under such pressure. Pilgrim got no end of abuse for deciding to sit out the X-Games finals due to wind and Benderoni (the crazy Russian dude) hasn’t ridden a bike again since showing up to Rampage and being over-whelmed

I don’t really have an opinion on Rampage ending or not, but I do think there is a large hole in mountain bike coverage at the moment.

On the one hand you have DH. Speed is everything, yet we still love it when someone shows style.

On the other, you have slopestyle. Feels like BMX to me, rather than mountain biking.

When you want to see stylish/freeride-y riding you currently have to watch an edited movie like unReal or the smaller edits that riders and manufacturers put out. They’re great, but it’s all jump cuts and you’ve no idea how anyone else would ride the same line. Camera work and editing counts for a lot of it.

So I do think there is a hole in the middle for a judged comp where style and speed meet. I loved watching those Enduro sections where everyone takes the corner differently for example.

I don’t have the answer, but Rampage does offer some of that – especially with Remy drifting everywhere in contrast to the huckers.

I agree with those who dont really understand what it is. Personally Im not so keen on the trick filled runs as they are not my thing.

As to the risks the short answer is that people will be prepared to take them when the title can make a career and set riders up financially for a long time.

More intimate (if that is the right word!) coverage. It is so hard to appreciate what you are watching.
– Looser time format. The live format puts way too much pressure on the build and riders adding unnecessary risk.

As was said on the coverage interviews and in the Cam Zink bio flick the only way to appreciate it is to be there, even watching the helmet cams didn’t really do it justice.
The time thing is very loose, they moved the day to get the best chance of a full day in, the rain that came over the weekend would have meant lots more work over the weekend to get it back to riding. We were there from about 9 till they called it as the wind wasn’t going to get better as the sun dropped in the afternoon. 4+ hrs for 50x3min runs is a lot going time.

Also on risk more people have died racing wc xc this year than rampage.

Compared to the progression in other extreme sports freeride has a long way to go yet.

I didn’t mean the extra exposure being just about POV runs- there’s plenty of those already. I meant much more of the type of thing they started doing with the short rider clips but on a bigger scale and more focused towards this as the entertainment rather than live judged runs. Fairlough’s run looked nothing special in the Live show but the “behind the scenes” explanation of the line with him and the builders, the progress to hitting the full line and the descriptions by different people as to what was properly sketchy is far more interesting than the live run coverage. They only did it for a few riders and I think it could be expanded more. If you look at some of the Nine Knights stuff you get more of a sense of what the riders impressions are of each others stuff and get a bit more involved in it all.

Also on risk more people have died racing wc xc this year than rampage.

It’s one thing to be injured, or killed, as an unforeseen by-product of an activity; it’s another thing entirely to be expected to deliberately do something that could have permanently damaging consequences.

It is but it’s also the facts, riders are choosing their lines and their level of risk. Along the lines of climbers trying the do or die routes many with as many variables as rampage. The event is a focus of the pinnacle of free ride, it’s where people choose to go and test themselves.

No one has suggested that the IOM TT has run out of life – that’s possibly more risky.

Trimix

No one has suggested that the IOM TT has run out of life – that’s possibly more risky.

No possibly about it. 240 deaths.

Blinking flip.

I see all the arguments against Rampage, and I like the Hardline series but for the sheer spectacle and hard to believe ridiculousness of the stuff they ride down I have to admit I think Rampage is an incredible event. Would love to see it for real.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to the riders: it sounds naïve, but there must come a point that they stand up for themselves and call it if it is too risky an experience in their subjective views (assuming all objective risks have been mitigated).

Indeed, DanW, Sam Pilgrim took a lot of stick but that was for slightly different reasons – that was the first time ‘mountain biking’ had featured in the X Games; Rampage is a repeated event. At Rampage, there is a situation where riders do not take flak for not riding (see Lacondeguy/Agassiz not running), so, ultimately, they need to decide what is acceptable to them. Benderoni found it unacceptable and left. Fair enough. But don’t start negative social media campaigns on behalf of individuals who should be able to act for themselves. It sounds harsh, but that’s what I think.

(PS Mr. Benderoni is certainly still riding mountain cycles – see here for more!)

Glad to see “Benderoni” riding again. It seemed Rampage mentally broke the poor guy and he did get a lot of flak for it at the time. Pilgrim’s situations isn’t so different- one off or annual event it makes no difference really. He too had a tough time after that event and needed a really quiet season to get his confidence back as he says in his web series. Even Andreu was getting grief for not riding Crankworks at one time. Sure part of it was him claiming the jumps were too small for his tastes which isn’t going to win friends but his other point was that the jumps were poorly built (Semenuk found out to his cost). Point is the riders are damned if they do and damned if they don’t and it isn’t easy to just not ride if that is what the expectations of your “employers” are

I don’t think anyone is saying “let’s stop Rampage” completely. I’m certainly not as I love the whole premise. However, I, like many others it would seem, think the format should change as the current one doesn’t seem to be working any more.