Currently have hope x2 on my hemlock, I like the fact that all parts are available for these and can be rebuilt but I have always felt they don’t have much power, they work but don’t have much enital bite. Finally thinking about replacing them, would XT M785 be a better option, do they have much more power? I know seals etc are not available but a complete brake isn’t hugely expensive

If you like the hope then I don’t think you will be happy with the shimano’s. Yes they are cheap but that’s where the good points end. I have two sets of hope e4, one set of m4 and a set of x2. The hopes are much nicer feeling and the E4 is as close to my perfect brake as I could imaging possible. The x2 are fine on my xc bike but understandably don’t have or need the power of the 4 pots. The modulation and feel on the hopes is lovely and you will not get this on the shimanos. The shimanos feel powerful to start with but I always find after the initial bit there is no more power to be had no matter how hard you squeeze.
You won’t get a definitive answer on here though. People hate hope because they are expensive. In reality they can last for a long time so over their lifespan work out pretty cheap. Shimano are pretty much disposable and some models seem to have constant issues.
My vote would go to hope E4

Shimano are cheap, reliable and work great. Whether you like the feel is subjective but I like them. They’ve oodles of power and plenty of modulation. I’ve had a pair of the old XT765s on a bike for years with no attention other than pad changes.

Apparently Hope are OK too^ but I remember the 3 different pairs I’ve owned much less fondly than andy.

Im a Hope fan and ive lots of Hope brakes from C2- X2 and everything in between. They are superb and do the job theyre supposed to.
Got a pair of Saints a bit back, single pot(m800) And i was seriously impressed.
The servo wave action thingy ramps up the power as you grip the lever, certainly leaves you feeling theres still plenty of braking available after you stop. Feels right if you know what i mean.

Currently im having a grumble over Hope costs(80 for an effing stem ??? 3 bloody bits of tooling compared to a brake with say 30 😕 Makes no sense 😯

😳 Rant

Shimano are really cheap (CRC), and really work, so id go for XT over hope. Both are powerful brakes but a high end Shimano 2 pot is better than a Hope 2 pot(personal opinion)
Plus if you buy and arent convinced, its considerably less of an outlay to feel sad about.

I’ve never been a Hope fan but the current range is really pretty good, and competitive on price for what they are.

Shimano are pretty up and down, there’s been times when they’ve been the go-to but I don’t know where they’re at right now. The feel is very different, personally I like a subtler brake, Shimano tend to have a fairly immediate response, all pretty aggressive- which some people love.

Totally unhelpful extra option- CRC have some good deals on Formula just now. I’ve got a set of 2011 The Ones that have been on a trailbike, a downhill bike, a titanium rigid xc bike and now on a fatbike and they’ve absolutely kicked ass at all those jobs. Formula do make some shit, to be fair, and at RRP they’re silly money but when they’re good they’re phenomenal.

I’ve been a Hope user since the days of their mechanical discs and splined floating rotors, was pretty happy with most of their offerings, but switched to XT when my original Mono-Minis required a seriously full-on overhaul. The difference in bite and stopping power was amazing ((though, as said above, the Hopes were totally worn out after about 8yrs of heavy use.), requiring a rethink on all my braking points, but over the course of a two year period, I had to swap two levers (internal seal fault, levers back to bars at random), and three calipers (piston seals leaking), and i’m still witnessing regular caliper seal failures in the workshop now. A spur of the moment decision saw me swap to Hope’s Stealth Race X2,not noticing any major difference between them other than reliability, working fine for best part of two years now, with only routine maintainance that i’d perform on any brake.

Have a read of this thread re. XT brakes: LInk

you’ll find about 50/50 recommendations for Hope, and Shimano on here. Always has been always will be.
Both work great when they’re working, just feel different.

That’s just one thread of many.
Not many days go by without a shimano brake problem thread.

How much do you want for your X2s Pondy?

Just thought I’d try a cheeky “get in first”. 😉

Email in profile.

where do people get this “shimanos are reliable” idea from?
they are very very prone to random lever failures lost count of how many we have sent back to madison.

front hope

rear shimano

best of both

What sized discs are you using and what pads?

I have X2’s on my Trance (180/160 rotors) and E4’s on my Reign (200/180). I find the standard pads to have more initial bite, but if you drag brakes or riding in the alps, then sintered is a better choice. I prefer to use the standard pads.
Never had any reliability problems, really easy to bleed and maintain (cleaning and greasing pistons).

I like Hope stuff but have XT brakes. Did have Hope Minis on a hardtail about fifteen years ago so can’t remember how they felt or how different to the XTs they were.

From threads on here it seems that Shimano brakes are fine until they go wrong at which point it’s basically throw them away and get a new set. Hopes need a bit more attention but just keep going and unless you damage them are unlikely to need replacing.

I’ve not had the “random lever failures” mentioned by @b45her but then they are random so could happen tomorrow.

If I had a failure would I replace with another XT or switch to Hope? Difficult to say – the “go with what you know” side of me would say XT, the “look at the long term” side would say Hope. It’s my fence and I’m sitting on it! 😀

whitestone – Member

From threads on here it seems that Shimano brakes are fine until they go wrong at which point it’s basically throw them away and get a new set.

Not really. Warranty obviously, after that you can buy just the failed part ie lever or caliper. If it’s the caliper, then it’s barely more expensive tban buying a seal set from anyone else, once you take into account that you get a set of pads. Levers not so good.

It becomes more of an issue with more expensive shimanos tbh

Warranty after two and a half years? Time and effort in pressing for that would pay for a set of Hopes 🙄

Well yes, because the warranty is 2 years 😕

just got hope v3 e4 to replace my saint 810 and once bedded in they are very nice. even more modulation.

shimano come in strong at start and seem to back off a bit the more lever is pulled, hopes just get stronger more you pull

take your pick but 4 pot brakes always have better modulation then 2 pots IME and weight difference really is not worth worrying about.

I have both, I’ve XT on my carbon Norco and Hope X2 levers and M4 callipers on my Stumpjumper.

They’re different…I like both of them but for different reasons. The XTs are very, very sharp off the bat and have lovely short levers. The Hopes have perfect levers for two finger braking and although they feel a little less sharp initially, they have plenty of modulation.

Bleeding either brake is easy, but Shimano has the edge thanks to the bleeding kit which avoids a messy carpet. The Hopes are very pretty, as befits a brake nearly twice the price. The fact that you can buy any spare part you require from anywhere is a huge bonus too.

Unless you’re on the biggest discs your bike can handle I’d just go up a rotor size. Much cheaper than buying new brakes. The X2 caliper doesn’t have a ton of power but the power difference between it and the E4 is less than a disc size difference – and the E4 aren’t short of power (I have M4 and E4 on my bikes).

The standard build on a Mojo Geometron is X2 caliper and that’s a 6″+ travel bike which is as slack and longer than most downhill bikes, so if an X2 can stop that then it’s plenty powerful enough.

where do people get this “shimanos are reliable” idea from?

In my case from running a pair of 765s for about 8 years, with just a couple of bleeds and some pads as the only maintenance required. I’ve a pair of Deores but I’ve only been using them for about 4 years without a problem so the jury’s still out on them.

Unfortunately(?) not having had any problems means I’ve only seen a very small sample of brakes but I’m OK with anecdotal because my own experience is all I’m talking about. I would be interested in an objective comparison over a decently sized sample but the whole Shimano/Hope just tends to be ridiculously polarised.

where do people get this “shimanos are reliable” idea from?
they are very very prone to random lever failures lost count of how many we have sent back to madison.

Because they used to be. My first set of Saint M800’s were brilliant – they never needed any fiddling and just worked. That era Shimano brakes were brilliant.

The newer ones are a bit hit and miss – my XTR’s on song were ace but seemed to need an awful lot of fiddling with to keep them like that. They were just about to be returned when the bike was stolen. Of the modern Shimano brakes that I have had and friends have had, the Deores seem to be the most reliable!

Not really a Hope fan either – I’ve had a few pairs and gave up after the brakes with the Mini lever. Not really a fan of the CNC look either.

I’m currently using Guide RSC’s on both bikes and have been pleasantly surprised at how good they are.

plus one

The XTs are very, very sharp off the bat and have lovely short levers.Shimano has the edge thanks to the bleeding kit

simple, proven and available world wide

couple of my bikes in the past had hopes and they felt good…although the premium price didnt really make them value for money against the competition
their real advantage was that they could be completely rebuilt and the service backup was great
i also ran magura, formula, hayes and shimano brakes on the other bikes. each had different characteristics but all did the same job reasonably well…except i wasnt that impressed with the shimano set.

i went back to shimano brakes a few years ago and have to say i’m massively impressed with their performance especially at the price they cost…nothing can beat them

even some of my other friends have ditched their hopes for shimanos and are impressed by them
really good modulation and stacks of power!!

Thanks for all the replies, given me something to think about, must admit I have been a lot of threads here about faulty xt brakes, saying that I have some deore m525 which are many years old and only ever had pads and bleed, maybe it’s mister newer shimano brakes?

I’m not sure I would like a brake that’s very sharp to begin with, I owned some elixir 5 before and these had a lot of power but where just on and off, my x2 Have good modulation, just feel under powered on my hemlock, they are fine on my soul for xc riding. More power the more buoy pull just not enough, am going to look into the e4, they do look trick

Ive had shimano, hope and back to shimano again. Ranging from XT, XTR trail and race to saints to X2 and E4’s. I have had utter shit M9020’s that pumped up whever more than one pull of the lever was needed. I bought Hopes after that debacle. The Hopes are nice, very solid lever feel, you know where you are up to with them. I just prefer the feel of the Shimano lever, I now have M9020’s on again with different pistons in the caliper and I have 0 brake pump up issues.

Had Hope X2 and XT. I didn’t like them XT as they lacked power compared to the XT and for me I did not like the lever ergonomics as they have a fairly long straight lever compared with the XT.

However my mates had the newer Hope’s, there’s sooo much more power now than the X2’s and the lever has improved. If I had the money id go Hope.

Until recently, I’d always been a big fan of XT.
Had 4 bikes all running M785 XT, from a hardtail to a Patriot, just changed rotor size and pad material accordingly.
BUT…
Over the last year (and typically when the brakes were around 2 years old) I’ve had problems with almost all of them. First symptom is typically black fluid at the lever end when bleeding. Often accompanied by lever feel/reach/bite point all becoming less consistent.
Final straw was going OTB on a set of Calderdale steps after a lever pulled to the bar 😯
Have now de-Shimano’d by fleet and gone Hope E4 instead.

To be honest, I did like the instant bite and the lever shape of the XT and the change has taken a bit of getting used to but I’ve adjusted my braking style and prefer the E4 over-all.

I went XT to X2 and now E4. The E4s are fantastic brakes, they seem much more powerful than my X2s were. The X2s are now sat in a drawer being considered for the wife’s bike.

I found XT to be full of power until they just stopped working after 2 years, that annoyed me so I went to Hope for the servicing ability.

The downside to Hope seems to be wet weather performance, it’s just not quite as good as it should be. Maybe I need to try different pads.