I'd vote to legalise !Maybe we'd get some decent quality control then!

5th you just proved ernies point he specifically said the death penalty for Drug smuggling

But where's your evidence that the public would support the death penalty for drug smuggling ?

Only 1 % supported it for other crimes as they did not ask about drug smuggling in the initial 12 crimes.
full report read first two pages

I don't think it was right to execute him for many of the already mentioned reasons. I'd just like to say that the number of deaths caused by the heroin are to some extent irrelevent, if you abuse heroin you pay the price, these people are not victims on the most part, unless they are physically being forced to take the drug. I really cannot see any argument other than 'it's against the law' as to why a drug smuggler should be executed whilst tobacco is still so widely used (it's a massive problem in China). Both drugs kill people, the production of both drugs is complicit with abuse of 'workforce' and both generate a lot of money for a few people.
I'm not a fan of laws for laws sake, if something is wrong and is not parralelled by a legal practice then fine, but a kangaroo court scentencing a person of questionable sanity to death for seems so contadictory compared to the problem of tobaco use/abuse in China.

Maybe his mental illness was drug related? Maybe he agreed to be a drug mule to feed his habit?

Only1 1 % supported it for other crimes as they did not ask about drug smuggling in the initial 12 crimes.

They didn't put "sodomising pensioners with red hot pokers" on the list either. But I bet a majority would be happy to vote for that too 😉

I shouldn't have led myself down this route. My point was merely that the BBC headline suggests the opposite of the public opinion expressed in the comments on the story.

If I were the Chinese govt I would not execute him if the UK govt beg for his life.

Instead I (Chinese govt) would get the UK govt to pay for his crime. i.e. pay £4 billion pounds (£1 billion for 1kg of drugs) to bail him out within 30 days or else.

Or get the UK govt to persuade EU to make it a law to get rid of all quotas on Chinese products export/import for the duration while he is(was) still alive. Time limit one year or else.

I think the above solution should be better and everyone is "happy".

Move over Alastair Campbell…

mafiafish – I completely agree with you.

Do we blame the man in the corner shop for cancer? He supplies the fags that people smoke?

Do we blame pub landlords / supermarkets etc for alcoholism?

People make life choices. They choose to drink / smoke / take drugs. They get a lot of pleasure out of it. The vast majority are well aware of the consequences but still choose to proceed.

Like the pub landlord this bloke was just part of the supply process. And please don't come back with "but what he did was illegal" FFS. If the masses had been taking heroin years ago it would be legal now, just like how if smoking was invented today it would be illegal in 12 months.

rockitman – Yours is a moral argument.
taking 4Kgs of heroin into China has obviously upset the authorities for which there is no excuse.

Slightly OT but I love the defence offered up by folk caught- ignorance and 'this nice man offered me a free holiday for nothing' (oh and could you drop this suitcase off with a friend).

Why not DHL? 😆

Actually Rockitman makes a very valid point.

Smoking is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

Drinking is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

Smuggling drugs into China is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

He made his choice and he paid the price.

As I've said before – 1 drug dealer and 4kg of heroin off the streets is a reason to celebrate.

Actually Rockitman makes a very valid point.

Smoking is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

Drinking is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

Smuggling drugs into China is a life choice – it might lead to your death.

But mental illness isn't a life choice. If a child had been duped into being a mule – given a teddy containing heroin packets, for example – should they be executed? Should we celebrate their death?

If the guy was of sound mind, and knew what he was doing, then fair enough. He took the risk and paid the price. But if he was geniunely mentally ill, there's no way he should have been executed.

Could someone explain Bi-Polar disorders more rather than giving children as a example? 😐

As I've said before in this thread – he wasn't executed for being mentally ill. Also no-one has produced a medical record showing he was – just a collection of random stories from his life.

The child analogy is a little weak. This is an adult with no medically documented mental illnesses. He chose to carry 4kg of heroin into a country that carries the death penalty for that crime.

It really is that simple.

I know one thing. I would check ALL my pockets/luggage etc for traces of hashish before flying into Dubai and I havent smoked the bloody stuff for years!

(i.e Grooverider)

I may not be a real doctor……

Dr R Swank

You may not be a real doctor, but you are definately an R Swank 😉

Could someone explain Bi-Polar disorders more rather than giving children as a example?

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-disorder/Pages/Introduction.aspx?url=Pages/what-is-it.aspx

"During the manic phase, you may feel very creative and view mania as a positive experience. However, during the manic phase of bipolar disorder, you may also have symptoms of psychosis (where you see or hear things that are not there)."

The reason I used a child as an example is because if someone's having a severe episode, their reasoning and decision making abilities can be like that of a child's. Like a child, they can't be expected to be fully aware of the consequences of their actions, or to have a full understanding of the situation they're in.

GuitarHero – thank you – that's the biggest complement anyones paid to me lately 😉

DrRSwank – Member

Actually Rockitman makes a very valid point.

Something which have spectacularly failed to do, the last couple of days.

"Also no-one has produced a medical record showing he was – just a collection of random stories from his life."

In a civilised society I would expect the court to order a pre-sentencing report and where in doubt, for the convicted person's mental health to be medically assessed. I don't think China should be exempt from civilised behaviour because it happens to be China.

And btw, as I believe that there are provisions under Chinese law not to execute those who are mentally ill – were the authorities not determined to get things right ?

I suspect that this whole incident has far more to do with China wanting to throw it's weight around, and the Chinese being pissed off with the old colonial power Britain, rapping their knuckles at Copenhagen, than fighting drug crime.

And Mrs Toast – yes, I understand. BUT he was not medically certified as having bi-polar disorder.

It's like arguing he was a child as we've not seen his birth certificate.

He had no medically recorded mental problems. So the bi-polar argument is a non-argument.

Something which have spectacularly failed to do, the last couple of days.

Ah good, the Lynch mob is back….

Perhaps try constructing your opinions into sentences which make sense (remember – grammar isn't your grandfathers wife)?

Or at least offer an opinion instead of disagreeing with everyone elses.

This thread has, for me, run it's course.

I agree with China. He's dead. Whinging won't change that.

Just to add to the comment :

"Also no-one has produced a medical record showing he was – just a collection of random stories from his life."

It is perfectly normal for people to go for many years, sometimes throughout their lives, without being diagnosed with an existing mental health issue. Usually it is a fairly major crises which forces them to receive medical attention. People do not normally go to see their GPs because they think they might be mentally ill.

And Mrs Toast – yes, I understand. BUT he was not medically certified as having bi-polar disorder.

So people aren't bi-polar until they're medically certified? Excellent, if we stop branding people as being mentally ill, they're will be no mental illness. Does this go for all illnesses and conditions?

Ernie, as per my other reply:-

It's crisis not crises.

And your last sentence has words missing (again).

We know he was not medically certified but that does not mean he was not mentally ill does it.

does he appear sane to you?

Presumably those on the streets of Britain and neither alcoholic or mentally ill either then as they also dont have any certification to this?

more here

People do not normally go to see their GPs because they think they might be mentally ill.

What is so hard about this that you cannot grasp?
People who are mentally ill dont get help as they dont realise they are ill. It is why the state has the power to section and detain them against their will.

EDIT: Mrs Toast worse than that you are not actually dead untill a doctor has said so.

Ernie, as per my other reply:-

It's crisis not crises.

And your last sentence has words missing (again).

That is because my English and spelling is very poor. I believe I got about a grade 4 in CSE English – so hardly surprising really.

"Ah good, the Lynch mob is back" oh the delightfull hypocrasy.

Those who argue in favour of the execution apear to studiously ignore all the actual facts of the case and the typical patterns of bi polar disorder and it's diagnosis.

The man was dupped in to carrying a suitase by others he did not know what it contained. He was an innocent stooge. that is his defence if true he should not be guilty or if evading the prohibition on the importation of drugs is an absolute offence(ie one that does not require any criminal intent) then he should have those facts mitigate the sentence to something less than death.

I would hope that any inteligent reader who understands the above proposition would agree with it.

In which case the issue is credability do we believe his defence is true. everybody who has had the chance to assess the available evidence seems to believe that there is clear evidence of a significant mental health problem, Grandious beliefs flights of fancy and being generaly mad.

Bi Polar does fit the described behaviur and explains why the sufferer would innocently go along with the "just carry this bag on for me con."The fact it has not been previously diagnosed is meaningless we dont screen for bi polar so it is typically only diagnosed when the sufferers behavior has become sufficiently extreme to bring them to the attention of the authorities.

It is common for drugs rings to use witting and unwitting Mules to do this high risk (for the mule) tactic of sending Drugs through on flights with no particular attempt at subtlty . The high value of the Drugs is the total retail at street value , which in part reflects the cost of losses due to seizure. In effect they not only can afford to lose the odd load they budget for it and occasionally sacrifice a load either as a distraction or to deliberatly make a helpful law enforcement agency or agent look good.

So a credable case for innocence or at least leniency weighed against a 30 minute trial in a country with a truely appaling human rights reccord with a willfull refusal to consider the suspects medical condition.

Hard to see why anyone can argue in favour of the execution still less appear to relish it.

Hard to see why anyone can argue in favour of the execution still less appear to relish it.

Apart from all the people waiting for organs from excuted prisoners

I don't agree on revenge (death penalty).

Hard labour for murder? as long as it's not a psychological defect etc but I do think of the cost to look after such people.

Petty/stupid crime-hard labour and reskilled and re=educated.

Imagine being on death row and you're innocent??? horrible.

I don't know the full facts on the China/UK drug guy so can't comment.

I'm also fearing China as a superpower so can't comment on Chinese without being biased.

👿