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  • Help me explain why ” all lives matter” is not the same as BLM
  • Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Hi

    My mother does not understand why “all lives matter” is not acceptable to many of the BLM protesters

    I sort of get it but got tangled up trying to explain – anyone help me out? Simple clear explanation please

    sorry for the new thread – couldn’t find the old one

    Thanks

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    Wish I could suss images.

    “We said Black Lives Matter
    Never said Only Black Lives Matter
    We know All Lives Matter
    We just need your help with #blacklivesmatter
    Because black lives are in danger”

    Premier Icon stevious
    Subscriber

    Here’s a few explanations:

    https://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/12136140/black-all-lives-matter

    I think the comic strip works fairly well:

    Black Lives Matter

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    As a white person, my view is of course limited, but it seems to me that “all lives matter” is a cry that totally denies that there’s any difference between the lived experiences of people regardless of colour, and I do not believe that that’s true.

    Premier Icon simondbarnes
    Subscriber

    but it seems to me that “all lives matter” is a cry that totally denies that there’s any difference between the lived experiences of people regardless of colour

    This

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Shit, I wish I hadn’t looked on special media at this shit, seems there’s a wave of it at the mo.
    Best I read was:
    “WHERE THE **** ARE THE ALL LIVES MATTER PEOPLE? O wait… it’s not a real movement, it’s just a way for people to be rascist assholes and dehumanize black people fighting for their rights.”

    Premier Icon faerie
    Subscriber

    Black Lives Matter because they’re not valued as equal to white lives.
    For All Lives Matter to be true we need to end discrimination and recognise that being white gives us access to opportunities that are not available to those who experience racism.
    Feel free to ask more questions 😊

    Premier Icon chrismac
    Subscriber

    But all lives are different and colour is only one of many variables that make lives different. What about gender, wealth, family back ground to name just 3

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    You’ll find those bleating “all lives matter” tend not to want things to improve for people discriminated against because of their gender, wealth, family background etc either.

    But all lives are different

    Your life matters dude.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-amercian-riots/ FYI TJ, not sure why the url is different to the actual George Floyd title.

    What about gender, wealth, family back ground to name just 3

    Because that’s how ignorants and racsist (I’m not accusing you) water down or distract from what it means to be black.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Cheers folk – that helps me a lot.

    She just does not see it – not as an excuse to discriminate.

    Ta

    Premier Icon stevious
    Subscriber

    What about gender, wealth, family back ground to name just 3

    You’ve fallen into a ‘whataboutism’ logical fallacy there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Two people:
    One is starving.
    One is not.

    Do you give them both food?

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    I grew up piss poor on a shitty, rough council estate. Yet my life was (and is) relatively good on many levels. Black people from better socioeconomic backgrounds have had it tougher just because of their skin colour. Black people from the same sort of places I grew up in, I can’t even fathom what they’re up against.

    I’m not wording this very well and faerie is the best to answer TJ’s question tbh. I can’t imagine being scared of the police, or knowing that some people will judge me based on skin tone. It’s utterly **** up and that’s why BLM matters. At least to me any way.

    It’s a targeted rebuttal to racism past and present committed overwhelmingly against black people.

    It’s not a general platitude. It doesn’t negate that all lives matter. Although I can see why it’s confusing for certain people. I can also see that it ‘enrages’ some people. Don’t be those people.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    “Save the whales” did not mean “**** the other fish”

    (Yes, I know whales are technically mammals)

    Premier Icon Cougar
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    Basically they ****ed up their slogan.

    The movement is saying “black lives ALSO matter.” White lives already matter, these aren’t intended to be mutually exclusive concepts.

    Premier Icon tjagain
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    Again ta. MY mother is no racist in anyway but a very sharp and intolerant of waffle woman and I just could not find the right words to explain.

    Ta muchly

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    gah… Cougar’s image was redex up when I went to post mine

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Three words are enough. The “also” isn’t required. That, in many situations, in many countries, black lives clearly do not matter to those with the power to take lives… that is the point. That there are people who act as if black lives do not matter… that is what is being brought to our attention, and what campaigners want to change.

    grum
    Member

    Michael Holding on a Sky cricket mini doc, I’m paraphrasing but ‘we are saying black lives matter because we have been taught all our lives that only white guys matter’

    Tell ya ma to read ‘why I stopped talking to white people about race’.

    There’s a good explanation in there of why this kind of ‘I don’t see race’ view isn’t actually helpful or fair.

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    intolerant of waffle

    Well thats a whole different debate.

    Premier Icon pondo
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    Tell ya ma to read ‘why I stopped talking to white people about race’.

    Totally agree. But better yet, “White Fragility” by Robin DiAngelo.

    She just does not see it – not as an excuse to discriminate.

    That’s kind of the thing, I think a few years ago, I’d have been saying “all lives matter” too – it’s not, I don’t think, to castigate white people, more that we need to be more considerate, I think.

    tinribz
    Member

    That, in many situations, in many countries, black lives clearly do not matter to those with the power to take lives

    What situations in what countries?

    Hopk1ns
    Member

    When we say ‘Save the Rain Forest’….people dont say what about all trees? Dont all trees matter?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    Intolerant of waffle meaning if I gave her a waffle explanation I would be shot down in flames hence wanting something clear and concise which you guys have given me

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    What situations in what countries?

    Well, start with police using lethal force in many USA states. It’s much wider than that, but have a read about that first.

    Edit: having just read your posts in other similar threads, that question clearly wasn’t asked in good faith. Apologies to others for replying to you.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Three words are enough. The “also” isn’t required.

    The “also” shouldn’t be required. But it demonstrably is in certain circumstances or this thread wouldn’t exist.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    A slogan doesn’t need to be an essay.

    ‘Black Lives Matter’ is all that is needed. Those who don’t think Black Lives Matter know exactly what the phrase means. Those that genuinely have to ask what it means will learn from asking questions.

    Premier Icon faerie
    Subscriber

    Tj, it’s good to hear that these discussions are being had, thank you.

    Premier Icon RichPenny
    Subscriber

    Yes, the Michael Holding piece said it for me. IIRC he said OF COURSE White Lives Matter, that has never been in doubt. No one has ever questioned it, because it’s so obvious and it’s taken for granted. That really resonated for me, that not once in my life had I considered the value of my life as being remotely connected to my skin colour.

    poah
    Member

    BLM isn’t even all black lives either – BLM is only about those people killed by police

    If they want to save black lives they should be trying to sort out the actual issue not one that just gets sound bites and hashtags.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    If you were say of Pakistani heritage right now having also felt totally marginalised most of your life looking on what would you be thinking?…

    I’m with you – black lives do matter?
    I’m with you – and this is about my life too, kind of?
    Good on you, we’ll have our turn next?
    Could you not have tweaked the slogan a bit and made me part of the gang?

    grum
    Member

    BLM isn’t even all black lives either – BLM is only about those people killed by police

    If they want to save black lives they should be trying to sort out the actual issue not one that just gets sound bites and hashtags

    FFS. Such ignorance has to be wilful.

    poah
    Member

    FFS. Such ignorance has to be wilful.

    You didn’t watch the video or read what BLM actually stands for (They have a radical Marxist agenda BTW). It is only about police brutality.

    soobalias
    Member

    i thought, all lives matter was the vegetarian thing.

    this is as bad as the nhs stealing the pride rainbow.

    winkysmiley

    grum
    Member

    They have a radical Marxist agenda BTW

    Good.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    If you were say of Pakistani heritage right now having also felt totally marginalised most of your life looking on what would you be thinking?…

    Well for a start this is born of the US which has a very different demographic to here.

    Second, my honky ass assumed that “black” meant BAME people generally. Like, you want a definitive list for your placard?

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