2kg is a huge swing either way for me and requires a massive amount of riding and moderate dieting over 6 months to shift. I can’t diet hard and still ride to the degree I’m used to.

Just picking up on this, and being blunt, no wonder it’s a struggle for you then. As you put it, (massive) amounts of exercise, and only moderate diet changes doesn’t really work. It’s a classic confirmation of not being able to out exercise a bad diet. If it were me, I’d totally tip it on it’s head. You need a massive change in your diet & probably just worry about riding your bike (or whatever exercise you do) for fun.

Sure, that may be true, but by assuming that all fatties are simply in denial and if you just bucked your ideas up you’d be thin you are creating a highly damaging culture surrounding the issue.

So, what’s the answer then? Like a lot of things in life, if you put a half arsed effort in, you’re only ever going to get a half arsed effort out.

Take an average suggestion of losing 20% of your daily calorie intake to lose weight. That 4-500 calories is remarkably easy fritter way by not doing it properly & tracking everything you put into your mouth. It sounds harsh, but it is the reality.

Just picking up on this, and being blunt, no wonder it’s a struggle for you then. As you put it, (massive) amounts of exercise, and only moderate diet changes doesn’t really work.

I didn’t say moderate diet changes, I said moderately dieting, by which I mean moderate calorie restriction.

Believe me, I’ve tried every combination of exercise, duration, intensity, cardio, weights, calorie restriction (including food diaries and weighing food etc), low vs high GI etc etc. I have a very good understanding of how my own body responds. The issue has always been consistency for me – my lifestyle is not constant since my job sends me all over the place and sometimes I can get the riding in and sometimes I can’t. But what’s interesting is that some things that work once end up not working second or third time around, due to some kind of adaptation apparently.

If it were me, I’d totally tip it on it’s head. You need a massive change in your diet & probably just worry about riding your bike (or whatever exercise you do) for fun.

If I restrict calories too much, I can’t ride for shit and it stops being fun. If I eat to fuel my riding and not feel tired all the time, I don’t lose weight.

So, what’s the answer then? Like a lot of things in life, if you put a half arsed effort in, you’re only ever going to get a half arsed effort out.

The answer is to understand what’s happening and how YOUR OWN body responds, and not feeling defeated if you don’t get the same results as someone else. Or, crucially, not criticising other people for not getting the same results that you got. ‘Well I managed it, why can’t you?’ can be pretty damaging. Because there are people out there who do the right thing and still aren’t skinny.

As the expert said, we have less control than we might think. So you do your best, but don’t give up when you don’t get the results you thought you would.

If I restrict calories too much, I can’t ride for shit and it stops being fun. If I eat to fuel my riding and not feel tired all the time, I don’t lose weight.

here’s a suggestion. How about stopping riding and just dieting? Go on a strict calorie deficit and don’t exercise, then see what happens.

If I restrict calories too much, I can’t ride for shit and it stops being fun. If I eat to fuel my riding and not feel tired all the time, I don’t lose weight.

Give us some examples then – what is a ‘normal’ non diet day & what’s a calorie restricted diet look like to you, what sort of macro’s do you aim for? Do you eat back the calories you exercise?

What sort of riding/exercise are you doing with the dieting that’s becoming hard & meaning you can’t do it?

How about stopping riding and just dieting? Go on a strict calorie deficit and don’t exercise, then see what happens.

Thought about that, but it would frustrate me greatly. But it’s still an option.

Give us some examples then – what is a ‘normal’ non diet day & what’s a calorie restricted diet look like to you, what sort of macro’s do you aim for? Do you eat back the calories you exercise?

What sort of riding/exercise are you doing with the dieting that’s becoming hard & meaning you can’t do it?

Well, if you want to talk about me, I can oblige. I am not currently counting macros because most of the time I eat away from home so it’s too difficult to bother with. I’m currently following the iDiet plan which worked spectacularly the first time and seems to have less and less effect on my weight each time. However it has improved my fitness considerably. My current plan is to use my current work situation to increase the riding hours at lower intensity (currently done 21 hours this month about half road) and stick to the iDiet. Lost about 1.5kg since Christmas.

Incidentally I gained about 2kg when I started back in the gym lifting weights due to uncontrollable hunger which put me back to a long term 89kg or so – that was a shock. But it offset the 3kg I lost the summer holiday before last, where I did no exercise but spent a week floating in icy waters off Scotland with a snorkel on getting extremely cold. Yes, maybe calories in vs calories out, but I probably ended up developing some brown adipose tissue, so I lost 3kg in two weeks doing nothing but floating and eating biscuits, and it stayed off for about 6 months too.

Do you eat back the calories you exercise?

Yeah if the intensity is too high I end up getting hungrier and hungrier and I can’t function so I have to have some calories back in, at which point my weight stabilises. I feel as if the yoyo on-off cycle has strengthened the feedback cycle somehow.

How about stopping riding and just dieting? Go on a strict calorie deficit and don’t exercise, then see what happens.

**** that! Just stop weighing yourself and judge fitness on recovery time, speed, reps anything other than stopping riding. I’m around 12st 4kg (only weigh myself when setting suspension). Got hugely back in to exercise last year. Weigh pretty much the same, but I’m a totally different shape and feel better. Lose the scales 😀

If I restrict calories too much, I can’t ride for shit and it stops being fun. If I eat to fuel my riding and not feel tired all the time, I don’t lose weight.

I had that nightmare dilemma at the start, I think most people do. I also think it gets worse before it gets better.

The question is do you want to lose weight? If you do you need to give up some stuff you like. If Riding is stopping you lose weight then you need to can the riding, or ride less fun rides. The good news is in 2 months you’ll have so much spare energy you’ll be back riding with a vengence. The bad news is the other stuff you have to give up will need to stay off the menu forever (but you won’t miss them after a while).

If you don’t want to lose weight that’s great too, you might decide that leaving things as they are suits you better overall.

Recently we had a weight loss competition at work – I dropped 7.5Kg in 6 weeks through using the Wahoo Kickr trainer in the garage most nights and not eating much for an evening meal – mostly a nutty yoghurt and a few brazil nuts. Other than that I had my usual (weekday) crappy diet of a sandwich and a cappuccino for lunch, and a medium Caramel Latte in the morning – which in itself is a lot of calories.

The Kickr sessions were maybe 25 miles, maybe more sometimes, which isn’t too much of a push if you are watching a movie on Netflix.

I weigh myself everyday and therefore have a reasonable idea of what foods will pile the weight on, and the effect on me of eating late.

I’ve since put weight on, but that’s mainly laziness whilst I’ve had some patella tracking issues, which I seem to be getting to the end of – so will back on the trainer for some more weight loss, and then maybe some running as well.

I was the same weight before the competition when I was younger (26?) and dropped 2 1/4 stone through running and changing my diet only slightly – including eating more baked potatoes as I’ve found they help me loose weight, even if I pile the butter on to them…

This time I didn’t lose as much because the competition was shorter, but I could have kept on going. I am 55 in a months time.

Katie Hopkins has it.. 😆

As the expert said, we have less control than we might think.

So the expert knows what we think? The paper didnt say that by the way, but it did say its hard to extrapolate the findings to the general population.
You might have more control than you think.

I think the biggest problem people have when trying to lose weight is not treating it as a lifestyle choice but instead some task, chore or objective you have to grind through for 6 weeks and then, phew, you can sit back – you’ve done it. And if you didn’t – well just try again next Jan.

When you think of it as a lifestyle choice the strategy changes. Just as cycling is a ‘lifestyle’ hobby – if you started cycling tomorrow you wouldn’t go straight into a Tour De France – you’d fail miserably, right? Instead you practice, evaluate, improve over time until your capacity allows you to achieve your goals.

It’s the same with eating more or less. Don’t jump in to a 500cal deficit straight away. Of course that’s going to make you feel like shit. Drop 50cal first for a week or so. Then 100cal for a week or so. Evaluate how you feel, hows your insulin, how is your energy levels? Monitor and improve. You can’t fix X years of poor nutrition in 6 months. It’s a long game.

It’s the same on the opposite. If you’re underweight and only eating 1400cals a day, if you suddenly scoff 2400cals in a day every day you’re going to feel like utter arse and probably put on fat surplus. You tickle yourself up, give your body chance to adjust. You increase by 200cals a week.

Fitness = training. When you train, you approach things differently.

Just stop weighing yourself and judge fitness on recovery time, speed, reps anything

The problem is that with an extra 10kg over the racing snakes I’ll never be good at MTB racing. To compensate for that I’d need to gain an extra 50W or so of threshold power. But then, if that’s possible, and I lost weight as well, I’d be even faster.

This summer I gave up trying to lose weight and ate to recover well. I smashed my PB on my test climb by 50 seconds in 5 minutes and got the KOM. Possibly aided by how dry it was, but still!

Winter is for dieting, summer is for eating and smashing it.

Ah it’s a bit difficult.

That’s a bit different fromnimngenitically disposed to not lose weight.

I’m pretty sure I’m genetically predisposed to relatively stable weight.

SaxonRider reckons he’s gained 7kg whilst being off the bike injured. That just wouldn’t happen to me in that amount of time.

Winter is for dieting, summer is for eating and smashing it.

5 pages in and I think we’re getting there. 😀

What is the best exercise for Fat Loss?

Posted by James Smith on Wednesday, January 30, 2019

James Smith calls it.

Looking at photos of the inhabitants of the concentration camps. Were all the people with the genetic predisposition to be fat screened out from the jews, gypseys, homosexuals, disabled and various others the nazis didn’t like? Just wondering as very few of them came out of there looking fat. Diet or genetics?

There can only be a limited number of scientific explanations here and the report does not identify them

1: Appetite control
2: Expelling undigested calories down the toilet
3: Producing body heat
4: Higher activity levels

In the unlikely event that you have a problem with number 2, pun intended, then you are just going to have to work against those genes 1 & 4 and turn the heating down and wear less clothes 3

Have I missed anything?

Were all the people with the genetic predisposition to be fat screened out from the jews, gypseys, homosexuals, disabled and various others the nazis didn’t like?

If there were no people with a genetic predisposition to be fat in concentration camps, the only logical conclusion is that anyone with a BMI over 24.9 is a Nazi. 🙂

Have only skim read so apologies if said elsewhere…djglover gets quite close I think.

Calories in vs calories out is too simplistic, because it’s not what goes in but what you do with them. Extreme example but bowel cancer sufferers suddenly and rapidly lose weight because the disease affects the way / efficiency of extracting calories from the food they ingest.  Likewise thyroidism.

I do subscribe to the empirical approach that if you are losing weight then your expenditure is higher than your effective intake (or the opposite) and I agree you should then gain a sense of where your balance point is, and that most people are increasingly on the wrong side of that point…. but simply saying that someone gains or loses weight because their intake is higher than <insert number> when that number is individual to everyone is simplistic.

It is entirely possible for two people to have the same intake and expenditure numbers, but it to be too much for one and not enough for the other based on other factors and I’m perfectly prepared to believe that genetics could be one of those factors. That’s not the same as saying someone is fat because of their genetics though – in the end they’re fat because they still eat too much for the amount they expend.

you only have yourselves to blame in an age where all the nutritional/health information is at your fingertips, thats if you can wipe the grease off them and take your eyes away from the idiot box in the corner of the room.

Expelling undigested calories down the toilet

I poop at least twice a day, sometimes 3 or 4 times. How often do fatties poop?

100pc agree with the point, but those projections are total fiction! Assuming BMI will rise when it’s fallen on occasions in the past and is currently falling in Spain is dicey. Would have been better to have stopped the graph at the point where the data stopped. The trend is still clear!

1: Appetite control
2: Expelling undigested calories down the toilet
3: Producing body heat
4: Higher activity levels

And what affects all those things?

Were all the people with the genetic predisposition to be fat screened out from the jews, gypseys, homosexuals, disabled and various others the nazis didn’t like?

What about people with a genetic disposition to post stupid things on the internet?

*And what affects all those things?*

Well apart from two which is generally illness.

The rest are conscious decisions made by the mind…..

Yas! Scotland doesn’t even make it onto the chart! *detours to McDonalds on the way home*

Ha mashr need to zoom out. We are off the top of the chart !

Yas! Scotland doesn’t even make it onto the chart! *detours to McDonalds on the way home*

Drive-Thru I hope? Wouldn’t want to risk burning calories by walking to the counter to get your “food”.

*winking emoji*

It is entirely possible for two people to have the same intake and expenditure numbers, but it to be too much for one and not enough for the other based on other factors and I’m perfectly prepared to believe that genetics could be one of those factors. That’s not the same as saying someone is fat because of their genetics though – in the end they’re fat because they still eat too much for the amount they expend.

100% agree.

The logical bit from that would be, if it were me, wanting to lose some weight & eating a balanced diet (nothing faddy/odd):

Am I losing weight?

Yes? Ok good, keep going & review weight loss & calorie intake every few weeks. As long as there is a downward trend, happy days.

No? Eat less.

It is entirely possible for two people to have the same intake and expenditure numbers, but it to be too much for one and not enough for the other based on other factors and I’m perfectly prepared to believe that genetics could be one of those factors. That’s not the same as saying someone is fat because of their genetics though – in the end they’re fat because they still eat too much for the amount they expend.

Some evidence emerging that obesity is contagious, jv – based on the gut microbiome. Most cited report I know of is one which took a fat and lean pair of human twins and tranplanted their fecal microbiota [ie shite] into pairs of normal mice. The mice receiving the fat poo then became obese!
Moreover, and encouragingly, the lean mice microbiota could invade that of the obese mice when they were co-housed, leading to weight loss. But the reverse was not observed.

Powerful stuff, poo transplanting.

Summary here:
http://science.sciencemag.org/content/341/6150/1069

*And what affects all those things?*

Well apart from two which is generally illness.

The rest are conscious decisions made by the mind…..

Are you suggesting that, for the typical person, fatness/thinness is in some way related to the choices the person makes regarding exercise and diet?

Don’t be so stupid, it’s all genetics.

I’d just like to congratulate myself for successfully predicting this thread and 50% of the content after reading the original BBC piece the other day. Go me 🙂

The rest are conscious decisions made by the mind…..

And what affects the mind?

Don’t be so stupid, it’s all genetics.

No-one’s saying that food intake makes no difference. For ****’s sake, you bloody idiot.

My coment was a bit tongue in cheek molgrips, but serious point, fat people are rare in places where there is little food, ultimately eating less makes you less fat.
If it was purely genetic then that graph of Mr Smith’s would be pretty much flat, but it isn’t, so we , the population as a whole, must be doing something to make ourselves fat. Or somewhow selectivley breeding for the fat genes, maybe fatties are suddenly sexy…

No-one’s saying that food intake makes no difference. For ****’s sake, you bloody idiot.

I’d never claim to be particularly clever, but I’ll rest happy in the knowledge that I’m sufficiently intelligent to regulate my calorie intake according to my body’s needs.

So fat people are stupid now are they? Including the leading academic who did the study?

You’re re right, you aren’t very clever! Nor are you nice.

If it was purely genetic then that graph of Mr Smith’s would be pretty much flat,

No-one nisnclaiming that. The point is that your response to food is genetic to a significant extent.

No I believe he was mocking you after YOU called him an idiot rather than being general abuse of fat people.

But he’s wrong. It’s genetics it’s nothing to do with him being intelligent.

Take an average suggestion of losing 20% of your daily calorie intake to lose weight. That 4-500 calories is remarkably easy fritter way by not doing it properly & tracking everything you put into your mouth. It sounds harsh, but it is the reality.

Agree. I am sticking to 1700 calories a day so still eating well and doesn’t really feel like I am on a diet. It just means that I watch what I eat so ‘wasting’ 300 calories on some chocolate or cheese means I have less to go for the rest of the day.
On days I cycle I just have a few more calories to play with (roughly 400 for each hour of cycling)

I wasn’t really fat to start with (75kg at 1.78) but I had a bit of fat around waste and I am 4 kg heavier than a few years back so getting back to 71kg over a few months.

Takes a bit of self control but it is an easy enough approach for me.