Not sure why anyone would even mention driving a car when motorsports were mentioned.
Surely on a bike forum riding a bike would be a better comparison when motorsport were bought up.
Seems totally irrelevant to even mention driving a car.

talented couch potato.

I resemble this comment.

(I really do, my best race result was one where pedalling was banned, stainburn chainless challenge.)

Also aggressive? Really.

I dunno. It does feel a bit like ebike riders are taking offence when none is actually intended. I fully expect someone to jump down my throat for even suggesting this 😉

So, have we yet established that it takes zero fitness to ride a MTB at an uplift venue? I think that’s what everyone who hates ebikes is trying to say?

No, noone is saying that.

Not sure why anyone would even mention driving a car when motorsports were mentioned.

It’s not strange at all to mention driving a car when motorsports are mentioned. It was perhaps strange to bring up motorsports in the first place.

It does feel a bit like ebike riders are taking offence when none is actually intended.

Perhaps because they don’t get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way? :p

So, have we yet established that it takes zero fitness to ride a MTB at an uplift venue? I think that’s what everyone who hates ebikes is trying to say?

I did two days at BPW back in August, back to back, on my e-MTB.
Day one: E-MTB pass, six full runs and 3/4 smaller loops of the upper section red runs.
Day two: Uplift pass (on my e-mtb), eight runs, including two riding up (an early one and one at lunchtime) and six on the uplift bus.

I was more fatigued after day one, despite what I was expecting. The repeated climbs are not a rest section on the e-mtb like the queue and the bus journey are, i.e. it feels more like a long ride at a traditional trail centre, more constant effort through the whole day, with a really good choice of DH runs built in.

On another (not entirely unrelated) note, having only ever done BPW over the years on a standard MTB using the uplift, I was very surprised just how many people choose to ride there for the day and not use the uplift bus at all (both on e-MTBs and normal), many choosing shorter loops rather than top to bottom.

Chatting to people on the climb was also more sociable than on the bus.

These threads always go the same way.
Someone asks a reasonable question.
There’s about a page or so of reasonable answers.
Then theres some eeb trolling.
Then someone claims ebikers are aggressive then posts something like this.

Perhaps because they don’t get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way? :p

🙄

BTW I don’t class myself particularly as an ebiker.
I have a few bikes that all get ridden and one of them is an eeb.
I can’t see what all the negative fuss is about really.

I agree SSStu, It’s now becoming very tiresome, and not unique to this forum.

I’m in the same boat as you with a few bikes in the quiver… although admittedly it’s the Eeeb I ride most often these days, particularly through the summer.

Well, it was pretty obviously tongue-in-cheek.

But really – there’s not much e-bike trolling here. Noone’s saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard – but I can’t see that that’s really very controversial? While I’m sure some people do genuinely do as much, or more, than they would on a bike, I’m equally sure some people have them to make things easier for themselves.

Well, it was pretty obviously tongue-in-cheek tiresome and predictable.

“Noone’s saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard…”

That’s just your observer bias. On the thread, pretty much every time someone who actually rides an ebike dares to say that they haven’t lost fitness since owning one, someone has to leap up and say something like “but all ebikes wear too many clothes or, I’ve never seen an ebiker breathing hard, etc etc”. It’s boring – and wrong.

You know how drivers tend to treat cyclists on the road? That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers – like they have no right to be there, doing what they’re perfectly entitled to do. It’s the usual human tribalism but OMFG it is spectacularly tiresome.

As I said earlier, if singlespeed MTBs had been the norm, and then gears had been introduced, we’d be getting the same kind of behaviour. Would it make you all feel better if I got some stickers made that said “I’m a better human because I don’t like eMTBs”?

There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard

And by Christ don’t the commenters love to really ram it home.

“Noone’s saying that ebikes provide no exercise. There are some comments that some ebike riders work less hard…”

That’s just your observer bias. On the thread, pretty much every time someone who actually rides an ebike dares to say that they haven’t lost fitness since owning one, someone has to leap up and say something like “but all ebikes wear too many clothes or, I’ve never seen an ebiker breathing hard, etc etc”. It’s boring – and wrong.

You know how drivers tend to treat cyclists on the road? That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers – like they have no right to be there, doing what they’re perfectly entitled to do. It’s the usual human tribalism but OMFG it is spectacularly tiresome.

As I said earlier, if singlespeed MTBs had been the norm, and then gears had been introduced, we’d be getting the same kind of behaviour. Would it make you all feel better if I got some stickers made that said “I’m a better human because I don’t like eMTBs”?

Do you think maybe you’re over-reacting a little?

“Do you think maybe you’re over-reacting a little?”

I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.

I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.

Internet bike forums have been mostly folks saying “You’re doing it wrong” from about 2001 as far as I can tell. If it’s not e-MTB, it’s risers or disc brakes, or 29ers or SS or fixed, or 1-by. Meanwhile in the real world, no-one gives a hoot what bike you’re on or what gears it’s got or anything else.

I think, in fact, I’ve had one argument with another biker; about the fact that I had 100mm Manitou forks on my XC bike in 1998 or something he thought I was mad, didn’t need it, and it would rip the front of my bike off. Personally I think It made me into a riding God…so y’know…

That’s how too many MTBers like to treat eMTBers – like they have no right to be there

That’s like, just your opinion, man…

(this is a joke, just in case)

I’m just stating facts because I’m bored of prejudiced opinions.

It does become very wearing. Every time someone finds out you have an ebike, they need a full explanation.

In the interest of “science” I selflessly just went out on my analogue bike, a yt capra, and did one of my regular loops.

I haven’t ridden my analogue bike since February, and have been exclusively riding my ebike since then, and I haven’t been doing any other exercise.

There’s a longish tarmac climb at the start of the loop. The last time I did that climb on the capra in Feb it took 15 mins 6 seconds. Tonight it took 14 min 56 seconds.

So I have got fitter with an ebike!

Science bitches.

Other observations :-

– blimey the analogue bike can change direction quickly
– those climbs are tedious
– I prefer 27. 5 inch wheels
– sram axs gears are awesome

That’s just your observer bias.

That maybe works both ways.

It does become very wearing. Every time someone finds out you have an ebike, they need a full explanation.

While I agree with this it only seems to happen on here.
People like aidy seem a bit more reluctant to state their tongue in cheek opinions face to face.
I wander why…
Personally I speak to folks on here the same way I do while stood in front of them.

Back out on the trails i’ve had no face to face abuse while on my eeb.
Seems a bit daft doesn’t it.
I could be riding one bike and I’m an over dressed muppet that has no place on the trail then the next day I’m on a neeb in the same clothes and it’s perfectly legit on here.
While actually riding it’s all how’s it going pal and great here isn’t it.
maybe it’s folks that only ride in shit locations that have to prove how their tribe is better than what they view as another tribe.
Just all a bit odd to me.

People like aidy seem a bit more reluctant to state their tongue in cheek opinions face to face.

I’m quite happy to say anything I type online directly to people’s faces. Thanks all the same.

You wonder why I find this aggressive – singling people out and casting aspersions on them.

I bet when it comes down to it your quite as a mouse…
Are you really telling me you’ve told people on eebs that

because they don’t get enough of a workout on a bike, they need to blow off steam some other way?

You wonder why I find this aggressive – singling people out and casting aspersions on them.

Oh poor you the victim.
Try not casting aspersions in the first place if you don’t want to be picked up on them.
Think I’ll leave you to it . I’d rather think about the next few days riding and which trail to ride than all this negative shite.

What a bully you are.

What a bully you are.

Oh for god sake.

While I agree with this it only seems to happen on here.

Na, roadies really just can’t get it at all, it totally pickles their shammies.

What a bully you are.

Yep full on took your dinner money off you and everything.
Go and tell your mom or something. 😂

I haven’t lost fitness since getting my ebike. I only ride an ebike and mainly just ride in turbo but whereas I used to just ride up a fire road on an mtb, I now take the rooty, rocky singletrack on my emtb. There are quite big climbs where I live though. 1000m (height) climbing on a fireroad on an mtb is plodding dullness….a 1000m of hard rock steps and steep rooty climbs to navigate is a hard full body workout!

I do sometimes cruise up the fireroad on the emtb though and may even chat to friends with an extra layer on (if I’m on a social ride) as I ride past a non ebiker (though not often, as there are very few of those left round here) thinking ‘glad I’m not on one of those’.

Other times I’ll be sprinting up the fireroad as I have limited time, or there’s no alternative singletrack, or I just want to get done with the fireroad as quickly as possible, or cause I just like sprinting.

The best thing about the emtb (if you are not riding with non ebikers) is the flexibility that you have to be able to do the kind of ride you want to do.

People buy eBikes because they want to make the riding easier, that is the primary reason for an eBike for someone that already rides a bike and has a decent level of fitness.

Yes they can go further in the same time (easier), yes they can use less energy on the climbs (easier), yes they can also put in the same effort (equal)
They don’t buy an eBike because it will be harder work and make them fitter and for some the balance of easier with equal is going to be on the side of easier and they may become less fit.

I don’t care what anyone else does, what sort of bike they ride and if they get more or less fit, people just need to look at the question objectively.

People buy eBikes because they want to make riding easier more fun

Absolutely this^^^.
I can ride up hills… I just don’t find them fun…. in fact I hate them.
Will be buying an ebike next year to max the enjoyment of rides.

@kerley

I’m actually looking to buy an ebike to increase my fitness, not “pedal” fitness but the type of fitness that’ll let me get in more laps and longer tracks on an uplift day before blowing. Also to maintain the kind of strength that’s useful on a pump track or at the dirt jumps, am I doing it wrong?

Let’s flip around the prejudice that ebiking requires no fitness, I see plenty of “fit” riders on a pedal bike, but can’t keep their arse off the saddle for more than 10s without their legs buckling under their own weight, are they really “fit”? Also get one of those pedal fit people on a pump track, probably ruined in a couple of laps.

So what’s my point? Maybe metrics for fitness include more than what you can churn out twiddling the pedals. Prejudice against ebiking not requiring fitness doesn’t make sense.

Though I can’t disagree you can be lazy on a ebike, but the same person would likely be lazy on a normal bike, just people isn’t it, not the equipment.

Again this is where this thread is so irritating:

“People buy eBikes because they want to make the riding easier, that is the primary reason for an eBike for someone that already rides a bike and has a decent level of fitness.”

I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier. We’ve all done it to get more riding into less time, be it lapping somewhere there’s usually a push-up, extending a commute via some trails, etc. My cardio fitness is as good as when I bought the Levo three years ago and my strength is greater.

Repeating your opinion doesn’t make it correct. I’d love to know what data you base this opinion on as you’ve frequently stated that you avoid riding with anyone and you live in the New Forest. Where exactly are all these keen MTBers you know that have bought ebikes to make it easier?

I ride with people on ebike and their reasons are vey different .
Some of them have no time to train , back from injury , some of them dont enjoy going up .

In my view , access and damage to trails are going to be issues in the future with ebikes .

I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier. We’ve all done it to get more riding into less time, be it lapping somewhere there’s usually a push-up, extending a commute via some trails, etc.

You can ride more in less time BECAUSE it is easier
You can ride more uphills BECAUSE it is easier
You can extend a commute BECAUSE it is easier

An eBike is easier to ride at the same speed as a pedal bike, fact (you have 250W).
What you do with that, take it easy up hills, ride further and faster etc,. is up to you and I couldn’t care less about whether you are more or less fit because of it.

Try and not be so touchy about it, I am not saying anything personal about anyone and how they ride.

In my view , access and damage to trails are going to be issues in the future with ebikes .

Keen to know your thoughts about damage.

I don’t know anyone who’s a keen MTBer without a health problem who’s bought an ebike to make it easier.

Last time I was at Glentress I was nattering to a guy on his (new to him) pretty tricked out SC Heckler, he caught me up and we chatted on the last bit of the first climb just before you get to the the Eagle? Buzzard? Nest CP (or whatever it’s called) He bought one ’cause he hates climbing, and the e-bike made that easy, and that’s cool, it’s not a character flaw or wrong or lame, or bad…It’s irrelevant to everyone else.

You can’t know why everyone has bought the bike they have. There’s only one metric that counts. Are you having fun? and that’s pretty much the start middle and finish of the conversation.

“You can ride more in less time BECAUSE it is easier
You can ride more uphills BECAUSE it is easier
You can extend a commute BECAUSE it is easier”

Again, you are missing the point or don’t appear to understand what the word “easier” means. If you are putting in equal effort it is no easier.

I’m not being touchy, I’m being precise because I’m tired of ill-informed, ill-considered opinions based on incorrect facts and anecdotal evidence.

Someone else said something equally clueless earlier about using electric assistance in the gym and I responded with a reference to equipped powerlifting – this variant of the sport uses bench shirts and squat suits to hugely increase the weight you can lift by using the elasticity of the gear to support the load like a spring. It makes it much easier to lift the same weight – so people lift more weight, so it isn’t any easier.

Those of us who choose to do sports often do them because one of the aspects we enjoy is the physical challenge of them. That doesn’t necessarily change if you happen to buy a eMTB, just as it didn’t have to change if you bought a bike with suspension or more gears.

The last group ride I did, I had the power off for 99% of the ride. I turned it on for one steep climb, max assistance, and then pedalled like a lunatic trying to win an XC race for the sheer amusement of going up a rough climb that fast. By the top my heart rate was as high as it can go and I had that delightful feeling of being on the verge of throwing up, like when I used to race cross-country in the school running team. So the one time on that group ride I used the power I pushed myself far harder than when I had the power off.

On the way to that group ride I was running late so was pedalling as hard as I could for a longer period, again with max assistance, but pushing myself harder than I did unpowered with the group. On the way home I turned the power right up and let the bike do more of the work because I was tired after the ride but I was still pedalling as hard as when I ride home on my normal bike, I just got home faster.

It is all about your individual choices as a human. If you like working hard in your sport or pastime of choice, then changing the equipment won’t change that.

I’m not being touchy, I’m being precise because I’m tired of ill-informed, ill-considered opinions based on incorrect facts and anecdotal evidence.

He says, before embarking on a lengthy anecdote about his personal experience. People are entitled to have opinions even if they’re different from yours. For example, my opinion, as I mentioned earlier in the thread and based on personal experience is that it’s quite difficult and awkward to lift a 50lb plus emtb over a stile. Your opinion, I think, was that it’s no more difficult than lifting an unloaded barbell or a six-year-old child over a stile and therefore quite easy. I disagree with you, but clearly you’re stronger than me and have a different experience. Neither of these opinions is a ‘fact’, they are just personal experience and as valid as each other.

My take would be that my experience is possibly more typical than yours, which is why I see very few ebikes riding footpaths round here- that’s anecdotal, but I’ve not seen any studies on the numbers of ebikes on footpaths – but equally I get that you’re probably stronger and fitter than me and for you lifting emtbs over stiles isn’t an issue. Where we differ is that you seem exasperated that anyone has an opinion that’s not the same as yours. Could we all not just agree that opinions are often shades of grey and rarely exclusively correct because hey, the world is nuanced and we are not always right.

You should give MX a go. How hard can it be, you don’t even have to pedal.

Or trials. Very low distance, very low average speed. Still a bike.

There’s only one metric that counts. Are you having fun?

Disagree, difficult things aren’t always fun.

The best thing about the emtb (if you are not riding with non ebikers) is the flexibility that you have to be able to do the kind of ride you want to do.

Eh. This is pure genius. I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to. I can’t see how having an eeb is going to improve that. In fact I’m pretty sure it’ll have the opposite effect.

Eh. This is pure genius. I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to. I can’t see how having an eeb is going to improve that. In fact I’m pretty sure it’ll have the opposite effect.

As ever, there’s different ways of looking at it. My first eeb ride was riding the rhinns of Kells, straight up coran of portmark from Carsphairn. No one on here is climbing that on a push bike.

I love the exploring on mine, going places I wouldn’t ordinarily have gone.

The only limitations are hike a bike carries (**** that) and big huge days, in which case I’ll take the Bronson.

“Where we differ is that you seem exasperated that anyone has an opinion that’s not the same as yours.”

My opinion, as I’ve repeatedly stated, is that it comes down to the individual, which is why I’ve provided my own experiences as an example of one individual who’s been riding an eMTB a lot for a few years. The opinions that I keep disagreeing with are the ones making sweeping generalisations which I know are inaccurate based on actual experience.

“I have a bike and already have the flexibility to do the kind if ride I want to do. I set off pedalling, go where I want, and end the ride approximately when I want to.”

How nice for you. I have three small children, so my biking flexibility is more limited because I don’t get many hours in the year to dedicate to myself. The eMTB helps because it saves time.