Training with weighted packs/heavy bikes is likely to lead to one thing – a knackered back and/or joints.

For fitness boasts, get your V02Max figure tested – no arguing with that figure.

@ Flange; are you a regular rider at Thetford?

I am often found at weekends in the Brando area…..

LMTTM – I am mate, live just over near Ipswich. My Mrs is there this afternoon actually!

You're welcome to take the bike for a spin if you fancy, see how you get on with it

i still can't beleive your still all argueing over fact.
also i can bet that njee20 and me are some of the fitest(blazin saddles is more so) and still ride the lighttest bikes.
Don't throught the money card as i work and im a student.
also rigids are pointless for anything other than tarmac or cross bikes.
when you can get forks that weight 1200g's and turn rigid when you push a lever yet go down hill in the peaks or on a wc xc circuit without causing internal bleeding or fillings to fall out,what is the point.
as for to road and xc riders riding heavy bikes.If there any good they will ride there race bike or a bike of similar caliber because they will ride for a team and so doesnt matter about the bike.

sorry to rant.

"also i can bet that njee20 and me are some of the fitest"

bikerbruce – wow that's a bit of a sweeping statement! Mind you if your the same Bruce who races in the NDCXL then I must admit you are no slouch. 🙂

Well to start with I think the bike should be usable. So forget about njee build, it's only good for CX and mayhem.

If you want something that is good try to find spec on Schruter (spelling) build for last year transvésubienne.

So forget about njee build, it's only good for CX and mayhem.

And World Cup XC courses, it's never done any CX riding or Mayhem sadly… If I was heavier/clumsier/not racing I probably would have a burlier bike (albeit slightly, like I say, a Mojo SL or something), luckily, I'm not heavy or clumsy and I do race, so it's a horses for courses thing!

I don't really want to get into willy waving about fitness, I know I'm quicker than some on here, and can think of 5 members off the top of my head who are a lot quicker than me!

Anyway Juan, when you buy me a plane ticket down there we can ride together and you can show me how it's done, but I'll wager a fair bit that it'd be crap riding and not my bike which would hold me back!

also rigids are pointless for anything other than tarmac or cross bikes.

Wrong

I'm inclined to agree with you FRC, I think pointless is a bit strong! Whether the weight saved makes the bike quicker than just having a suspension fork is a different point all together. Then again I realise that's not really the sole appeal with rigid forks.

It's got nowt to do about your fitness or the weight of your bike (although I am dubious on the amount of 1m high drops it can sustain) but more to the fact that it is not appropriate to go up. You know you can get your own plane ticket too…

more to the fact that it is not appropriate to go up

What does that even mean? My bike is not suitable for riding uphill?

You're right, it probably wouldn't sustain lots of 1m drops, but it was never built with that in mind. Is that what all bikes should do, is that your yardstick!? You really do say some very odd things. I would love to see you at a World Cup XC race heckling Absalon because his bike wouldn't sustain 1m drops! I'm surprised you've not shown him how it's done frankly.

although I am dubious on the amount of 1m high drops it can sustain

How relevant is that though – given in the decade I've been mountain biking I've never ridden a 1m drop?

Sadly this is Juan's sole record, but he's French and unemployed, so it's ok to not like him!

there's alot of people with some quite skewed vision of how much their bikes weighs! Bathroom scales don't count!

My scandal is mostly "sensible" kit, and comes in at 10.5kg. I've realised i've massively over built the wheels on it considering my weight of 64kg.

I'm going to build a light bike for my massively over weight arse, the only thing i have not decided on is the frame though it will probably be a tranny so i can ss it during the winter.

Think the spec will be 20mm reba teams, tune hubs cx ray spokes and 355 rims, full xx drive train, thompson masterpeice seatpost, then other leightweight bits. I'm thinking about sub 23 lbs.

Whilst I'm sure most people reading this already think I'm a sanctimonious prick, I'm afraid it'll be far heavier than that. Never done the spreadsheet thing personally, don't really see the point for that reason.

Njee – sorry to come back to you a bit late on this, but yeah I think you're right and it will come out more than the spreadsheet says. However…

The spreadsheet offers a good starting point and I think that you're wrong to say it'll be 'far heavier', after all you don't know what it is or what the kit is?!

Just so you do know, it's a Kinesis KM-210 frame, Sids, mini pros with wee rotors, AC hubs on Alpine rims, tubeless with light tires, rest of kit is ritchey carbon, XTR and KCNC (but with XT cranks and cassette), so I'd be VERY surprised if the spreadsheet is more than a couple of pounds out. 21 lbs is very do-able I reckon, especially as it's a small frame.

What do you say to that then 😉

(Btw, thanks for the advice on wheels a while back, I hope you approve of my choice!)

This was my Merlin Oreas – 21.3lb and all without any bits that are suspect. Could have knocked a bit more off I wanted but it was a brilliant ride as it was so left it at that.

21 lbs is very do-able I reckon, especially as it's a small frame.

21lbs is perfectly do-able with a light frame, forks, wheels and tyres. I got my Dave Hinde M3 down to 22.3lbs (on the scales not a spreadsheet) with SID Race forks, American Classic wheels and Speed King Supersonics, some XTR bits (chainset and rear mech), Hayes Carbon brakes but still some heavyish bits on (alloy bars and seatpost, heavy pedals etc.). I've got some carbon bars and seatpost and with those and a few other bits I had lying around (XTR shifters, Twister Supersonic tyres, Litespeed saddle etc) it'd have been down into the 21lb range. Getting down to 20lb or below with front suspension was looking to be quite expensive though, as it'd need lighter wheels than my 1500g American Classics and some very light pedals. In the 22.3lb build it actually rode quite well and wasn't too flightly:

I took it apart shortly after though as I still much prefered my Epic or Zion, both of which were build up to be around 3lb heavier. It was a usefull exercise though, if only to have me question the claimed weights of other builds I see on here. For example I'd guess that my M3 frame (sub 3lb) and SID Race forks between them might be a 1lb lighter than the frame and forks on that 21.3lb Merlin above. That means for it to be 1lb lighter than my M3 it'd need to save 2lb on the rest of the components which is entirely possible but expensive, especially as it's got heavier tyres (I've got a set of Ralphs myself and the Speed King Supersonics are slightly lighter) and a similar chainset. The pedals it has are going to be getting on for 1/2lb lighter than the M520's I was using and if it has a carbon post and bars then that's another 1/2lb perhaps. Not sure where the other 1lb would come from though.

has anyone seen the wolfen drop on the offenburg course ? thats near enough 1m drop and absalon and co seeem to cope pretty well.
What i meant about rigids is what logic behind it if you can save weight in other ways.They make for a more comfortable effiecient and thus faster ride.
Allways rememeber for anybuild light wheels,frame forks and tyres.
I like the build you've chosen btw mountain monkey.

How relevant is that though

Well given we are asking about moutain bike it has to be able to sustain mountain biking maybe? Don't know just a though.

I would love to see you at a World Cup XC race heckling Absalon because his bike wouldn't sustain 1m drops

Well the on he used last year at the tranv did (well actually not as he ripped a tyre). But to be honest I am more fond of his brothers work. He's truly good.

but he's French and unemployed, so it's ok to not like him!

Nice xenophobic content mate, very nice, but that is another proof of your intelligence and your fantastic open mind.

Cheers Evipsteve – glad you agree (definitely sounds like you know what you're talking about too!)

Thanks bikerbruce – I'm looking forward to getting it built up! Just waiting on the crankset and cassette to arrive and for my mate (who's a very good wheelbuilder) to build up the wheels! Really looking forward to taking it for its first spin! …Though having had a baby 11 weeks ago, I won't be doing it any kind of justice for a while! 🙄

Well given we are asking about moutain bike it has to be able to sustain mountain biking maybe?

Well if in 10 years of mountain bike riding I've never had to do it and my bikes have never had to do it then what's the problem? If I was riding 1m drops regularily I'd put together a bike that could cope with doing that regularily (in fact I do have one – my 32.8lb coil-spring Enduro). Same is true if I decided I wanted to ride in the Alps – I'd put together a bike appropriate for that. Such a bike wouldn't be particularily great on my local trails and trail centres though.

I'd be VERY surprised if the spreadsheet is more than a couple of pounds out

Within a couple of pounds seems about right, but that's 10%, do you quote your body weight +/- a stone 😉

Nice build though, good choice of wheels, and whatever it weighs it'll be nice. I'll be the first to admit that people worry too much about what things weigh, if you like it, what does the actual number matter!

if only to have me question the claimed weights of other builds I see on here. For example I'd guess that my M3 frame (sub 3lb) and SID Race forks between them might be a 1lb lighter than the frame and forks on that 21.3lb Merlin above

Nah, Hadge's bike is a very realistic 21.3, there's some pretty light kit on there, Xpedo ti/ti pedals, EC90 post, SLR saddle etc and those XLM frames were only about 2.75lbs. It's only really the fork where you've saving any weight over it.

Nah, Hadge's bike is a very realistic 21.3, there's some pretty light kit on there,

I think I've just become about as cynical as you are about claimed bike weights, now that I know what mine actually weigh and the difference between spreadsheet and reality!

I just know people have disputed it before, but having spoken to him about it, and knowing the full spec it's lighter than it may appear to be!

There are some serious optimists on here though! 😉

Right weighed my XC build properly (was weighed rough at work on body scales and came up with about 9Kg) and is 11Kg 😳 .

But it won't ride any differently to when you thought it was lighter! You could borrow some scales off here and be under the impression that it's 6kg 🙂

LOL – Nah – been out on my Five today and missed my XCPro3 actually 🙂

I was out on the Fuel and it was lovely! Could've probably done with a grippier rear tyre mind, it's quite loose out there now!

Yeh def njee – very dry and very loose – was on Dartmoor, descended Smallacombe rocks etc – soooooo dry today

It's even dry and loose up here in Scotland at the moment – quite sketchy in some of the faster places on my Soul today.

Getting quite overgrown on the Surrey Hills too, I think a dry spring is actually better than proper summer!

Good response Njee! 😀 You're right, a couple of pounds is quite a lot given the weight weenie context! And no, although I don't quote my body weight +/- a stone, when I was preganant it was tempting! 😆

Glad you approve of the wheels and general build, I really hope it rides well! As for the weight; as it'll the bike I give my first go at racing on (and am still very much recovering from being pregnant/the birth) the lighter it is the better as I'm going to need all the help I can get re weight / power ratio! But agree, if I like it (and don't have any more money to spend on it anyway!) then, it'll be great whatever!

Just in case anyone is interested, I'll post a couple of pics (with actual weight!) on here once it's built!

MM – great to see such enthusiasm soon after having a little one. My wife was keen to get back on her bike soon after she had our little one and soon shed those few extra pounds. She's a proper nutter on it – absolutely flies down hills!

the lighter it is the better as I'm going to need all the help I can get re weight / power ratio

As XC races are often won on the climbs that stands at virtually any level!

Agree with that. Though I only race a few XCs the only place you/I can make a decisive move is on the climbs. Singletrack can be won and lost.

Edit; By the way I really hate my heavyweight Crossrides, they're playing on my mind now. My lad has a tempory cheapo rear wheel with wire Vapours and LX cassette and Deore disc and it's heavier than my Crossride with Racing Ralphs, XT cassette and Mini disc.

My lad has a tempory cheapo rear wheel with wire Vapours and LX cassette and Deore disc and it's heavier than my Crossride with Racing Ralphs, XT cassette and Mini disc.

I would expect it to be heavier… do you mean lighter?

ZTR hubs on Alpines are nice and light without being crazy expensive!

Doh! yes I mean lighter.

Thanks Surf-Mat, yeah I've really missed riding so was back on the bike after a month and off-road at 6 weeks. I was actually back to my pre-prganancy weight within a week of the birth (much to my surprise!), the problem has just been a real lack of fitness and leg strength and my core stability has taken an absolute hammering too. (I don't know why I'm surprised about that though? 🙄 )

Still, it's great getting back on the bike again (among other things I'm sure its good for my mental health!), only downside was that until last week both my bikes (road and mtb) were single speed, which wasn't a very forgiving re-introduction!

Still, that was a good excuse for a new road bike 8) (managed to get a bargain Boardman Pro off ebay!) and I'm now desperate to get this xc race bike done – after only managing one lap of my local trails at the weekend I'm desperate for some gears! 😀