There are a lot of tight turns on these trails. Often on a significant slope too, we’re talking lines through trees rather than built trails.

I might consider 27.5 just because I already have two 29ers.

Sorry I am not lucky in my attempts to help lol. I assumed the SLX chainset had the granny bolt holes like the XT, but clearly not the case…
I suppose I got away with 28t because I have switched to Sram 10-42…

Five for 27.5 or new, slacker Stage 5 if you decide to go 29. There was a very nice used Five in large on Bike Active the other day – great price, though the yellow is an acquired taste. Guy Kestevan has a 2020 Five review coming up soon.

Hmmm,
£1k for a used bike with ~120-150mm travel and more modern geometry?

I’ve grown to like 29ers (I took a while to try one TBH), but given budget is a constraint I’d be “Wheel size agnostic” (and probably axle standards too) and look more at geometry and layout…

From the fact that you can get along with the Patriot better for distance work in the higher BB (more upright seat angle) position that suggests you need to consider the frames layout for pedalling more i.e. ~73+* degree seat angle? and more reach…

Given you’ll be looking at used bikes a handful of years old so maybe not quite as bang up to the minute in Geometry terms I’d not get too hung up on Head angle, if it’s under 67ish that’ll probably compare OK with the Patriot and there’s always tweaking options like anglesets and offset bushes if you do want to adjust things. Perhaps look for an inch or so more reach than the patriot though, it’s really more of a 00’s DH layout so the front will be relatively compact… I reckon bikes made in about the last ~5 years will probably address some of the things you are looking for.

Having said that it seems you can pick up a new trail type bike for ~£1k easily enough:

On the front page today

And then there’s the Bossnut!
Pop on any nice bits from your patriot (like the hope brakes?), perhaps save up for posher forks and a dropper at a later date, but you could get rolling on a more up to date, budget friendly 27.5 trail bike tomorrow…

In terms of position then reach really is the issue. It handles better with a 35mm stem, and the bars aren’t too close, but the pedals are just too far forward when standing up. I have gone to a 50mm stem now to offset this, the steering’s a bit worse but still ok. If I go to 60mm then it’s just unpleasant, too flip-floppy.

It would actually be much better if I’d bought a large tbh. I’m in between M and L usually, and back then, we wanted short ‘flickable’ bikes so I went with M.

Definitely aware of the Bossnut also. Looks good.

I’m with Shortbread on this, my Solaris is spot on for what you do.
12 mile each way commutue, on tarmac, sometimes back the fun way, Yair Forest, Innerleithen occasionally, all day stuff on the moors, trail centres and EWS courses at Glentress, Golfie etc, it’s not perfect for any of it but is good for all. I suspect that the Patriot would be somewhat faster on the DH runs than the Solaris but it will do them. A Bfe might be more suited to the OP.

How tall are you I have a Trek remedy 29er that might fit what you’re after and budget. 140mm front and rear do everything. Chris

I’m 5’11. Not buying right now tho, will have to save up. And sell the Patriot obvs.

EDIT isn’t Remedy a little short at 460mm reach for a large?

Solaris is also 460mm reach and has a 68 degree HA, which doesn’t seem slack at all. Patriot has I think 65.5 when I measured it in slack mode.

If the Remedy and Solaris are considered ‘trail’ bikes maybe ‘enduro’ really is more what I’m after?

I sold a Banshee Spitfire frame and shock some months back for not a whole lot of money. That would descend just as well as the Patriot (it’s 140mm of very good rear suspension), takes a 160mm fork and 26″ or 27.5″ wheels. And pedals as well as my big forked hardtails. Most of the parts would swap across.

maybe ‘enduro’ really is more what I’m after?

like most of the last three pages have been telling you? 😉

like most of the last three pages have been telling you?

.. but then someone recommends a Solaris? Not really an Enduro bike is it?

ScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblemScottGeniuswithtwinlocksolvesyourproblem

.. but then someone recommends a Solaris? Not really an Enduro bike is it?

this is STW, i’m suprised that no-one has recommended a gravel bike and a skills course.

Kryton do you really think the suspension movement is what’s making me slow on fire road climbs?

^^^

nah, thats all the pies and cakes you eat 😉

Molgrips the reason I’m repeating myself about the Genius, is that its an Enduro bike that switches to a useable 85mm suspension, then a lockout.   In 85mm mode you steepen the HA a little also – a degree I think.

It seem to me that solves your issues – you have an Enduro bike for the downs, and XC platform for the ups and a lockout for the road.

If you haven’t ridden a bike with the current twin lock give it a try, it really works very well which is why its much lauded in its current guise.

I think your current issues are weight, angles, wallow and tyres btw.  The bike isn’t designed for fast XC loops.

I’m aware of this and I’m not trying to do ‘fast XC loops’ on it. I just want to cover ground so I can get out to the big hills in a sensible time frame. This is mostly road and fire road.

nah, thats all the pies and cakes you eat

They definitely don’t help, that’s true.

“.. but then someone recommends a Solaris? Not really an Enduro bike is it?”

Look at the geometry on a current Solaris – it’s long and slack, with short seat tubes so you can drop your saddle miles – I can’t see there being anything the Patriot can handle that the Solaris can’t.

“Solaris is also 460mm reach and has a 68 degree HA, which doesn’t seem slack at all. Patriot has I think 65.5 when I measured it in slack mode.”

No, the current Solaris has a 66 deg HA with a 120mm fork, slacker still with 130 or 140mm. And that’s on 29″ wheels, so more stable than with 26″ wheels.

Well most bikes ‘could handle’ the local riding, it’s a question of how good it feels and how much fun it is.

What reach do you consider ‘long’ ?

Canyon Spectral?

I can’t believe no one has suggested a rocket pack or a sky hook yet.

Is disappoint.

“What reach do you consider ‘long’ ?”

Obviously it depends on how tall you are!

Cheapest answer is get fitter. New tyres, I’d have something like Butcher/Slaughter or Minion dhf/Minion SS. If you’re thinking of a new bike eventually then I’ll recommend what I’ve got. I’ve done 40+km xc rides and Enduro trails on my Bird Zero 29. Does both really well, depends how much of a skills compensator you need.

Cheapest answer is get fitter.

It’s also the stupidest answer. What the jeff you do think I am trying to do every week?

depends how much of a skills compensator you need

Did you read the bit where I said I’ve done most of the same trails on my XC bike already? It’s not that I can’t do them on an XC bike, it’s just that I want to do them on a bigger bike.

Geex was right. Carry on. I don’t know what you’re doing every week, overthinking things on here?

The Bird Zero looks interesting though.

Mojo Geometron
G1
A fab all rounder designed in Wyastone near Monmouth. I bought a G16 4 years ago and haven’t ridden another bike since. Sold them all. Bought a G1 now. (27.5/29)
Yeah lighter tyres are good for long XC and soft rubber wears a lot on tarmac or very hard trails. Loses it’s edges

If you can get your hands on an Ibis Mojo HD3, there’s your bike. Mine is 160mm Lyriks front, 150mm rs piggyback rear, comes in at 12.4kg.
Went to Degla yesterday on it, a place I’ve been to many times on 3 different bikes and ended up with 50 achievements on it (while just having fun, I wasn’t trying for pb’s at all) and these were split between climbs and descents.
Seriously, a fast climber and still very capable on the steep stuff.

This is developing into a very Hora-esque thread.

As for too much metal – it’s ‘only’ about 31lbs.

Are you sure? That’s pretty lightweight, reckon my full sus built up light is around that (not that XC FS can’t be a lot lighter, but it does sound a bit “STW special scales”).

I would expect 35lb+ even with a fairly lightweight build (in line with its intended use)

Could you swap the pedals out, or are you just not comfortable riding steep stuff on spds?

Are you sure? That’s pretty lightweight

As far as I know it’s accurate. It’s 26er remember, and air sprung. And it’s medium. Might be wrong though it was a long time ago and it’s had some kit changes.

Could you swap the pedals out, or are you just not comfortable riding steep stuff on spds?

I used to ride it with SPDs and it was better on the ups. But a bike like that makes little sense with SPDs and I really should get used to flats. The reason I have the thing in the first place is diversity so it should be different.

I’m aware of this and I’m not trying to do ‘fast XC loops’ on it. I just want to cover ground so I can get out to the big hills in a sensible time frame. This is mostly road and fire road.

Really does sound like e-bike territory. Otherwise you are looking at the latest crop of trail/enduro bikes, accepting that you will still be carrying a lot of bike around for 90% of the ride.

Really does sound like e-bike territory.

Yes, but there’s no chance I can afford one of those.

I’m considering changing the bike, so what would be good for an hour of XC and road before some steep techy trails that I want to ride fast and confidently? A similar level of downhill capability to the Patriot would be good but just faster/easier on the XC.

I don’t think there’s a feasible solution here. Something like a long, slack, light-ish, aggressive ti or carbon hardtail with a burly semi-slick on the back would probably do it, but, just but.

Yes, but there’s no chance I can afford one of those.

Then it just comes down to making a compromise. As you well know, XC/road and steep rugged DH are at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of ideal bike. Despite all the marketing bs, there is no bike that will excel across such a wide spectrum of terrain. If it was me I would be looking at short or mid travel full suss 29ers depending on how tough those DH runs really are and how much you want to attack them. If you have the skill set, then something like a Scott Spark could be ideal. This lad looks like he’s having fun on the descents:-

But for me, I would need something a bit more forgiving for that sort of riding. Something with perhaps 130-140 mm travel. Anything bigger and you will be losing significant time on the uphill slogs, although your old Patriot is probably dog slow compared to even a modern full-on 170 mm enduro bike. The new 2020 Orbea Occam looks like a great all-round compromise to me and you can custom order with Fox 34 or 36 forks and a couple of tyre options for speed vs grip. I’ve just bought a new Canyon Neuron CF with 130 mm travel at both ends, which although I’ve yet to ride in anger, it climbs way faster than my 160 mm Enduro, which I considered to be a reasonable plodding climber in its own right. I have a feeling the Neuron is going to be almost as capable on the downhills too as the overall geometry is almost identical, but will find out later today!

Despite all the marketing bs, there is no bike that will excel across such a wide spectrum of terrain.

Of course, but that’s not what I’m looking for. The question is, what is the biggest hitting bike that’s not all that much slower at getting out to the trails.

If it was me I would be looking at short or mid travel full suss 29ers depending on how tough those DH runs really are and how much you want to attack them.

It’s more that they are steep in places. Here’s one of the big trails:

Obviously you’re all going to chime in and brag about how you could ride it on a penny farthing, and yes, I could ride it on my XC bike. But I would like to ride it on a long travel bike.

There are other much less well developed trails that are steeper and sketchier. I have ridden them on my XC bike too but on the really nadgery bits (not in this vid!) I got off.

More:

Hah, I had no idea there were so many vids on these trails 🙂

I think the bit from 2.00 is roughly the same trail I did on that one XC ride – up to the ‘f*******kin ell!’