Can’t figure out where a new, presumably tarmac, road will go to access the chalets.
Presumably the trails will be away from the chalets too.

From memory, it’s to be the same road to Buzzards, which will become the carpark for the site and no public access, with an access barrier just past the Go Ape cabin.

As for the trails, I asked the staff at the consultation event several years ago. They had no clue that there were even trails in that area, which speaks volumes. The maps being bandied about at the time suggested Blue Velvet, Berm Baby Berm and Zoom or Bust were all within the area being built upon.

I’d also hazard a guess that with no parking at the top, the Upper Green is unlikely to be restored, as who’s going to take kids from the bottom carpark all that way to ride a green?

I’d be interested to see how much of the existing network is being lost to this development, and how realistic the 16km figure for the new trails is.

and how realistic the 16km figure for the new trails is.

How long is it possible to make the climb up various fire roads that only need signage…

I imagine a big chunk of that 16km will be green trail(s) out of the bottom carpark because that’s what families want, and they’re what pay the bills. Pure guess work mind.

the Upper Green is unlikely to be restored, as who’s going to take kids from the bottom carpark all that way to ride a green?

Equally if that’s where I think it is, that’s exactly the sort of thing that attracts people to stay in the forest lodges so I can well imagine it being restored/new one built up near the lodges.

Which is sort of good, because if no one payed they’d probably take a much less enlightened attitude to the unofficial trail building.

There’s a map of the new trails in Masterplan doc, 16km is possibly rather more than optimistic. There was never any information about trails beyond the hill directly behind the Peel at any consultation or planning, so that would appear to be the sum total of new development.

The Upper Green is the one past the existing skills loop, heading for Peebles, and is currently well borked after Arwen. I hope it is repaired, but have my doubts.

The “new car park management” page with it’s spurious “benefits” suggests it’ll be some hateful app-based system.

Saying that, the machines in the current car park did seem a bit shonky when I was last there.

Riding traffic and chalet traffic will need to be separated

I wonder if there’s projections about the holiday makers at all? If it becomes a popular destination with non biking families, and I can’t see that it wouldn’t, then will it start to create conflict between non mountain biking holidaymakers? Who may see the trails and decide they’d make nice walking paths for instance, or just don’t want to be sharing their quiet forest holiday with “hooligan” bikers – you all know how this goes…The folks paying the most cash will get the biggest say.

Berm baby berm going? Do these people even ride bikes? That’s got to be one of the most fun and accessible trails in the whole of the UK. ****ing idiots…

mtnboarder Full Member
As for the trails, I asked the staff at the consultation event several years ago. They had no clue that there were even trails in that area, which speaks volumes. The maps being bandied about at the time suggested Blue Velvet, Berm Baby Berm and Zoom or Bust were all within the area being built upon.

That’s surprising, one of the MTB rangers for Glentress and the surrounding area has been very much up to speed about the plans when I’ve talked to him about them and the rangers seem to have been heavily involved in identifying what trails would be affected. As I mentioned earlier he was emphatic that any trails being decommissioned would get replacements and that the replacements would be in place before the old trails were removed. I hope that principle hasn’t changed over the past couple of years of delays.

mtnboarder Full Member

As for the trails, I asked the staff at the consultation event several years ago. They had no clue that there were even trails in that area, which speaks volumes. The maps being bandied about at the time suggested Blue Velvet

TBH the only volumes that speaks, is that they’d send someone to the consultation event who hadn’t a clue (I went to a careers event at Peebles High School and they sent people who could talk about forestry careers but had no idea that there were bike trails in the FC forests in the borders!).

the Upper Green is unlikely to be restored

Have you seen it lately? It’s absolutely destroyed. Probably the worst I’ve seen post Arwen. I don’t imagine they’ll ever ben able to bring it back

Cabin map in here

I really hope that everything is replaced, the consultations were 8 years ago! It would be great if the plans were published somewhere, anybody got a contact at the trailbuilding company?

Removing the heart around buzzards nest is a huge mistake. Plenty of room around. Commercialising / privatising even worse. It also means any trip has to start with that tedious slog up the hill.

The current facilities are nice buildings in the wrong place (cafe facing the side of hill? Well done) can’t see adding to it is going to create anything more than empty units.

If this is done well it could be a big positive for the widest range of user groups (many of whom are not, or not yet, bikers). Strength comes from quality and diversity of offer.

If it is done badly, it will rip the heart out of the place.

The main aims are to provide accessible facilities at the base of the forest, reduce vehicular traffic (& potential conflict) in the forest, and to diversify into accommodation.

In the UK we need to learn from places that do this well. cf. Whistler. Nevis is good, but essentially has no variety, and a pretty high competency bar to access the trails. It is orders of magnitude below Whistler. To generate multiple repeat visits there needs to be a variety of trails at all grades, retaining the ability to close some sections (repair, etc) without a significant detriment to the overall network.

An observation is that GT is very up-up-up, down-down-down, even the easier trails. It would benefit from some trails similar to the Minotaur trail at CyB, which is a stacked-loop Blue graded trail.

Removing the heart around buzzards nest

@munkyboy

What heart? There’s nothing there.

They’re selling a thing, what’s being bought at buzzards?

will it start to create conflict between non mountain biking holidaymakers?

Maybe. But let’s not look for the negatives, eh?

will it start to create conflict between non mountain biking holidaymakers?

Not on a cold Wednesday night in January.

Or alternatively, let’s plan things so that any conflict is minimised? I’m generally an optimist, but it’s an obvious failure point given the history in this country between groups who are forced to share leisure space; who see access to;and use of that space in wildly different ways.

Saying that, the machines in the current car park did seem a bit shonky when I was last there.

Haven’t worked for the best part of 2 years, probably more.

Berm baby berm going? Do these people even ride bikes? That’s got to be one of the most fun and accessible trails in the whole of the UK. ****ing idiots…

My thoughts too, my missus and daughter loved Berm Baby Berm.

What heart? There’s nothing there.

Except all the riders that congregate there. You know, the natural centre and meeting point rather than the soulless Crieff Hydro franchise with great views of **** all and something that looks like a horror set behind it.

https://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/20134675.peebles-glentress-masterplan-works-set-begin-next-week/

dangeourbrain
Full Member

What heart? There’s nothing there.

Except people, and the start and end and middle of rides. It’s not by design and it’s not really exploited but the buzzard’s nest is a natural hub. I mean, it doesn’t even need to be a car park, what really matters is having a centre that you can build varied rides out of. A hub, dare I say it. It’s a huge strength of GT.

https://forestryandland.gov.scot/news-releases/help-shape-the-vision-for-7stanes-revamp

I suppose this is for the oldies.
Way back in the mists of time. I seem to remember the trails coming down from what is now the black to what would be the car park.
Instead of cutting right off the boundary for deliverance etc you went straight on to the next hill top. Am I misremembering? Maybe 1990s.

IIRC. the only trail that’s going to be lost is Zoom Or Bust. Although there may be a way to divert or rework it. Berm Baby Berm should be ok although there was talk about moving the start point closer to Cool Runnings.

Car park to go to make room for more building.

Actually the more I look at the master plan the more issues I see. I have no idea how it got through planning and can guarantee that it’ll neither look nor operate as promised.

Except people, and the start and end and middle of rides.

Except all the riders that congregate there.

I dare say a lot of that is because that’s where they park, the middle of rides might stay there but start and end won’t. GT might be an exception but the car parks in most places are full of people meeting at the start and end of rides, walks, sitting in cars reading their phones whilst their dog is ignored for half an hour etc.

The bike park area helps but if I’m not mistaken, that’s moving to another [same] location (with a car park) anyway.

Move the carpark, you’ll move the people and that “heart” will move just fine.

It sounds like the 2023 World Champs XC is going to be at Glentress and will probably be using some of these new trails. The press release hinted at this too. I assumed it would be at Cathkin but sounds like its not. Will look forward to that! At least it should ensure some interesting features get built if its to be worthy of the World Champs.

I would expect champs-only sections and features to be build then taken down again. Still cool to have the race there though

I would expect champs-only sections and features to be build then taken down again. Still cool to have the race there though

The stuff at Dalby stayed for years, shame a lot of it like the board walk fell out of use.

I would expect champs-only sections and features to be build then taken down again.

Why?

I dare say a lot of that is because that’s where they park, the middle of rides might stay there but start and end won’t.

Buzzards Nest is a good start because that’s where all the trails are, barring a blast down to Peel at the end of the day on whatever trail takes your fancy there is no real reason to be there barring the cludgies. The trails up are a non-event (unless you really want that extra climb with no technical merit) and are only a feeder to Buzzards. Just look at a trail map, it’s the natural centre, Peel is the equivalent of parking up at Torlundy for Nevis (measure it) and just as sensible.

Bring back the log skinnies on the climb!

Why?

Because they can put in any features they want without fear of some mincer nailing themselves and trying to sue (MVdP excluded)

As far as I remember, the worlds xc was planned for Cathkin with the xc marathon at gt..

dangeourbrain
Full Member

Move the carpark, you’ll move the people and that “heart” will move just fine.

Maybe we’re not explaining it well- the buzzard’s nest is in the middle. The bottom car park is on the edge. Being able to drive into the heart of the trails and then choose rides around it is way more useful than driving to the edge and ending at the edge. The way you can mix up GT trails is one of the things that’s kept it popular despite the low level of new trails.

Hubs work better when they’re not on the rim

Agree with the thinking but I never do that as it means ending with a climb back there…so I get the climb out the way first (but can’t see anything by the time I get to Buzzards so no idea if I’m alone of surrounding by riders!

Buzzards nest is also perfect for kids to start at. loads of stuff around that they can ride without having to climb too much

You lot should try to see the bright side here. Think how awesome it’ll be for little Tarquin and Jocasta when they’re staying at the luxury lodges that are going to be built there.

Having the kids/skills/free ride area in the middle of the trail network brings everything together. The new layout almost completely separates them from the trails, brining with it a barrier of sorts between the learning/play areas and the riding areas.

But all this discussion is years too late, hopefully things will be better than I expect and we don’t lose too many trails in the process

I’m pretty sure all this discussion was had way back when first talked about and also during the consultation that was held at Glentress…none of this is new, but it doesn’t appear to have altered any considerations – so either they know they are on to an absolute winner; they are hoping this is a winner; or they really don’t care what the public that use the area already think as it had already been decided and the public consultation was simple a box ticking exercise.

GT confirmed as location for both XCO and Marathon XC World Champs!

https://dmbins.com/blog/mountain-bike-cross-country-marathon-2023-uci-cycling-world-championships-venue-announcement-glentress-to-host/

“The new developments will include a new skills area, new trails and trail features, and are all being taken forward as part of our Glentress Masterplan, bringing 45 miles of mountain bike trails up to national and international race specifications.”

Whatever that entails!

I emailed FLS asking for some concrete info on what’s actually being built and what’s being lost to the development but have been studiously ignored so far.

Good to see ESO are in there in some capacity though!