So Australia is the bastion of multiculturalism? You learn something new every day!

At this point it’s kids views without being poisoned by stereotypes. It’s a reasonably multicultural place and things are changing, if you mean kids were asked to draw pics to put in a welcome pack for refugees etc. then yes they were commissioned.

Sometimes it’s worth remembering that kids often see things differently and it may offer some more hope for the future.

It is probably the only hope for the future. The old racist bigots need to die off and let open minded people have the say.

People in their 20’s have maintained an open mind so they are not all getting poisoned. In my own poll asking my son, niece/nephew and many apprentices at work I just get blank looks if I ask them if they think immigration is a problem. For once, a blank look is good….

In my own poll asking my son, niece/nephew and many apprentices at work I just get blank looks if I ask them if they think immigration is a problem

Lovely stuff, can I ask the ethnic original and religion of your niece/nephew and apprentices?
Also, do they get upset about cartoons?

There a lot of people in denial here.

kerley

Sometimes it’s worth remembering that kids often see things differently and it may offer some more hope for the future.

It is probably the only hope for the future. The old racist bigots need to die off and let open minded people have the say.

People in their 20’s have maintained an open mind so they are not all getting poisoned. [/quote]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi0RpNSELas[/video]

…meanwhile

Sometimes it’s worth remembering that kids often see things differently and it may offer some more hope for the future.

It is probably the only hope for the future. The old racist bigots need to die off and let open minded people have the say.

Wouldn’t this be fantastic? The old racist ideas that have formed over years and years get thrown out with the rubbish and new young ideas of actually living together peacefully take their place.

Of course it needs to apply to all of mankind, whatever your colour/creed/race/religion may be . . . . .

He was referring to this guy jimjam

@Captain I hope it is a Merry Christmas as ISIS have been calling for attacks on this period and it’s symbols for months. The attack in Berlin was very well flagged and Brirish police have uncovered a plot to attack shopping centres.

Now you’re just scaring me. Fortunately I’m off until after the New Year, so I’ll not be seeing any Muslims there. There’s a few who live around here. Do you think any of them have got it in for me? I’m also on the flight path for Liverpool airports and I’m concerned that a plane might come down.
On the positive, the Christams market was taken down last week and traffic is so slow that an articulated wagon would only get enogh speed to nudge me in an aggressive way.
I just don’t know which of these Mislims is the next terrorist.
Best I steer clear of all of them.
Perhaps I could organise someway of keeping them sperate. Maybe I could get them to wear speacial clothes, or even get them to live in another country.
I really don’t know what tp do, I’ve only recently just started to speak to Catholics. 😐
Peace and Love Jamba, even you ( you have my sympathy).

Even Nigel Farage thinks the middle window blind is too long.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2016-12-23/berlin-attack-suspect-who-filmed-pledge-to-is-shot-dead-in-milan/

Ah, warms the cockles of your heart…i know i’ll be chomping down into my Christmas dinner knowing there’s at least one less religious nutter in the world.

For those for whom the link doesnt work it shows the Berlin terrorist has be thankfully shot in Italy on the run, the poor soul was armed with a handgun and they’ve also found a video of him proclaiming his allegiance to Allah before carrying out said attacks….

….but please continue to debate about whatever other nonsense may have made him carry out these attacks.

Too blind to see it.

Too blind to see it.

What? That God made him do it?

Too blind to see it.

Too blind to see what?

but please continue to debate about whatever other nonsense may have made him carry out these attacks.

Too blind to see it.

Yeah, shoot them all after they have killed innocents and be happy. No point trying to think about what led them to their action that I can think of.

.but please continue to debate about whatever other nonsense may have made him carry out these attacks.

Too blind to see it.
Given how many people have deeply held religious beliefs and don’t go on to commit crimes like this maybe tells us that there is more to it.
There are a number of people who are using peoples faith as a tool to manipulate them and to convince them to do something.
Not being too blind to see, just accepting it’s not simple

Too blind to see it.

That one extremist does not represent millions of Muslims.

Or do we need crappy memes like jimjam?

Obviously it was western imperialism, global warming, bigotry and Israel that drove him to do it.

Drac

Or do we need crappy memes like jimjam?

What is that supposed to mean?

….but please continue to debate about whatever other nonsense may have made him carry out these attacks.

What was it that made him commit crimes before he found religion?

The security services must have a good idea who the extremists are amongst us….would it really be such an undertaking using the SAS, SBS, select Marines and Paras and have all radical extremists eliminated’ in the space of 24 hours?

No explanation, no comment from the government, just a proper cloak and dagger operation that makes the world a better place.

Here’s hoping Trump thinks the same thing.

The security services must have a good idea who the extremists are amongst us.

How?

have them all ‘eliminated’ in the space of 24 hours?

Well I guess anyone in the body bag becomes and extremist

No explanation, no comment from the government, just a proper cloak and dagger operation that makes the world a better place.

Worked well in Russia and Nazi Germany

Here’s hoping Trump thinks the same thing.

Really hope he doesn’t

Then there is the other part, once you have all the extremists (cause they were born like that or something) do you think that will stop people?

I think someone has been watching too much Bourne.

Out of curiosity, can you define “radical extremist”…?

I’m comfortable entertaining ideas with which I feel an intrinsic disagreement. If I pretend that it would be possible to come up with a list of people to kill in order to solve a problem, it occurs to me that upon ‘satisfaction’ of the list, one would immediately need to draw up a second, even longer list…

Out of curiosity, can you define “radical extremist”…?

Someone with totally awesome mountain biking skills.

The security services must have a good idea who the extremists are amongst us

AAMOI, how much of a “good idea” do they need before going in for extrajudicial execution? Some actual proof? A vague suspicion? A general notion? Or is just “looking a bit foreign” enough?

Peace and Love to you Captain. I have plenty of both in my life, given amd received. By the way I don’t feel any of my Muslim colleages, clients or riding buddies are about to cut my throat either.

Mike, yup 100% in favour of Australian approach to immigration and refugees.

As I posted on the EU thread not surprising that Shengen is being raised as a major weakness in European security and a threat to the UK with terrorists and their infrastructure able to move freely right to our border. Terrorist able to travel freely from Germany to France and on into Italy all whilst being Europe’s most wanted man. Links in the other thread.

yeah they were pretty good

beyond the usual binary BS

Yay. 🙂

Similar concepts can be used to explain white extremism, Trumps election and Brexit.

Read “The True Believer” by Eric Hoffer at somepoint – then you start picking up on these central themes whether the writer of an article is talking about far right fascists or Islamic terrorists.

..would it really be such an undertaking using SAS, SBS, select Marines and Paras and have all radical extremists eliminated’ in the space of 24 hours?

Might not be that straightforward getting the armed forces on board with this scheme. Even if any legal grounds could be produced what is held to be lawful killing of a terrorist now might result in you facing murder charges 44 years later.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/23/ex-soldier-says-feels-betrayed-ira-murder-probe/

Mike, yup 100% in favour of Australian approach to immigration and refugees.

The one that is being hauled up for basic human rights abuses, the one which has led to rape, abuse and beatings. The one that has driven people to set themselves on fire.
It’s a great system. The only reason the boat operations work to an extent is that Australia is a very very long way into the ocean. With thousands of miles of borders and coastlines numerous mountain ranges etc. the practicalities of stopping people entering the country where you can sail over in a rubber dingy etc.

Here’s hoping Trump thinks the same thing

I doubt he’s keen to execute the people who voted him in and make up his advisors…

Trump doesn’t think.

The one that is being hauled up for basic human rights abuses, the one which has led to rape, abuse and beatings. The one that has driven people to set themselves on fire.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/24/sudanese-refugee-dies-in-brisbane-hospital-after-medivac-from-manus

Yep – I imagine this is the sort of situation alt-jamba is yearning for.

deviant – Member

Ah, warms the cockles of your heart…i know i’ll be chomping down into my Christmas dinner knowing there’s at least one less religious nutter in the world.

According to those who knew him Anis Amri wasn’t religious. The Italian authorities who held him prisoner between 2012 and 2015 claim to have seen no signs religious fundamentalism, they haven’t claimed that religion was behind his involvement in an arson attack on migrant centre.

His lifelong criminal career appears not to have been motivated by religion. There is no evidence that he was a devote Muslim.

But don’t let those awkward facts stop the popular and predictable knee-jerk reactions. I’m sure you won’t.

and those are only the bits you hear about as the workers all have no talk clauses and they refuse to let outside agencies (and Opposition MP’s visit)

True Extremism

While this is a complex area, I do think this rings true.

“If I pretend that it would be possible to come up with a list of people to kill in order to solve a problem, it occurs to me that upon ‘satisfaction’ of the list, one would immediately need to draw up a second, even longer list…”

If middle lane hoggers are on that second list, I’m in.

ernie_lynch

According to those who knew him Anis Amri wasn’t religious. The Italian authorities who held him prisoner between 2012 and 2015 claim to have seen no signs religious fundamentalism, they haven’t claimed that religion was behind his involvement in an arson attack on migrant centre.

His lifelong criminal career appears not to have been motivated by religion. There is no evidence that he was a devote Muslim.

All well and good except that he was on a terrorist watch list for over a year as he was known to be in communication with ISIS and a radical cleric who was under observation. But that probably had nothing to do with Islam.

There is no evidence that he was a devote Muslim.

ISIS were calling out for attacks on infidels over christmas and an attack on the symbols of christmas. He drove a lorry into a christmas market, an attack which he dedicated to ISIS in a video. In the video he states that the attack is revenge on “crusader pigs” who are bombing muslims.

But don’t let those awkward facts sway you from claiming he was mentally unstable/criminal/not a muslim etc.

True Extremism

While this is a complex area, I do think this rings true.

The thing is, it is more likely to the frustrated and weak who turn to god in the first place, the writer fails to understand that those who are confident in themselves and accept their own failures, often do not need faith in the first place. The idea that what we need is more “faith” scares me, that is what has happened in the Muslim world as the previous writer I quoted has pointed out. That faith, in that god has a plan for you, leads to massive amounts of cognitive dissonance when things don’t go well for you. And who is the writer to equate “true faith”, with love? There is no central “true” orthodoxy within Islam – that is a typical wishy washy piece by some softheaded CofE cockwomble.

People whose lives are barren and insecure seem to show a greater willingness to obey than people who are self-sufficient and self-confident. To the frustrated, freedom from responsibility is more attractive than freedom from restraint. They are eager to barter their independence for relief of the burdens of willing, deciding and being responsible for inevitable failure. They willingly abdicate the directing of their lives to those who want to plan, command and shoulder all responsibility. – Eric Hoffer

Also, this pisses me the **** off.

“The great aim of all true religion,” wrote William Temple, “is to transfer the centre of interest from self to God.”

If people were to transfer their centre of interest from god, to themselves – like Buddhists or Psychologists encourage – there would be a lot less violence in this world.

Hoffer recognised that belief is often used to mask deeper agsnt 60 years before Jessica Stern did, but he never once suggested that the cure is greater faith. The cure is more awareness of your own self, not more theological nonsense.

All well and good except the fact that he was on a terrorist watch list for over a year as he was known to be in communication with ISIS and radical clerics who were under observation.

Well that doesn’t make him a devout Muslim. Not unless all devout Muslims are on this terrorist watch list.

His criminality went much further back than a year, most of his life in fact, apparently.

Muslim terrorists pose a threat to our society, so too do bigots who choose to demonise a religion with their divisive and predictable knee-jerk reactions.

People like jambalaya, Tom_W and Nigel Farage are part of the problem, not the solution.

We can quite easily talk about white/christian/european born murderers/terrorists without demonising an entire religion/culture/people, there is no reason to behave any differently towards people who happen to be Muslim.

Ernie, if you’ve noticed – I’ve repeatedly tarnished Brexiteers like yourself with the same brush. And no, we were all quite good at demonising vast swathes of people when we were disccusing Brexit as well.

You’re incapable of thinking outside of your own stereotypical Guardianista echo chamber.

Pan-Arab Nationalism failed, and the void was filled with increased religious ferverance, which is driving many of the issues in the middle east – what the hell is racist about that?

Ernie, if you’ve noticed

To be honest I rarely read much of what you post. I see little point in reading the musings of an obvious Islamophobe.

Hahah.

I’m about as Islamaphobic as you are an anti-semite Ernie. Your inability to articulate why some of the writers that I have quoted on previous pages – are wrong – just strengthens my suspicions that you don’t care for getting to the heart of an issue, what you care about is your side being right, you can’t bear the thought of your political opponents actually having one up on you.

I certainly would not call radical Islamists “devout”. They have a twisted narrow interpretation of the religion. Or am I demonising all Muslims the vast majority of which wish to live side by side with others. (Note vast majority might be 70% or 80% globally, certainly not 99.9%)