I have two formal (black tie) dinners in a row at the end of this week, so, as I have not yet rented/purchased what I need, I have a few questions:

1. I have a nice black suit, but the fabric is lightly textured as opposed to being smooth wool. Could I get away with wearing this together with a black tie and more formal waistcoat? Or would the lack of satin stripe on the trouser and the nature of the fabric give me away?

2. If I do rent a tuxedo, can I get away with wearing my own ‘normal’ (read: nice quality) white shirt and a black tie, together with my own waistcoat, if it was formal enough?

3. If yes to 2, should the collar be any particular type?

Just trying to save money, so I can spend it on nice wine… 😀

Depends on the functions and you really. If they are high social then it might be frowned upon, but most people are accepting that not everyone has eveningwear.

Why a waistcoat? Never worn one myself. For the love of all things please wear a ‘normal’ collar. Wing collars are for white tie and gits.

For male eveningwear, the question should always be ‘What would James Bond wear’? Black, proper collar.

Shoes need to be black and well polished. Crap shoes will always drag a man down.

When in doubt – kilt.

Agree with what you say, TooTall. The reason I would wear a waistcoat is just to add something to the black suit. I have worn cumberbunds before, but they look and feel awkward, and well…just generally unflattering.

As for the events, one is a fundraising dinner for a cancer hospital, and the other is a university Christmas dinner.

I am afraid I outgrew my kilt a few years ago. 😳

As TT says, it really depends on the function. A genuine ‘black-tie’ do and most men will have a tux. You’ve maybe not got the time now, but you can often get a tux off ebay for not much money. Totally agree about good shoes; you can always tell a gentleman by his shoes (so I’m told)

Check out charity shops for the real thing.

I also have the same quandary. Mrs works Christmas do says black tie. I have a dinner suit but don’t know if I’m gonna wear it as its at the cricket club in derby and open to other companies/individuals as well.
Next have tuxes in, which are actually a decent fit. You’ll pick one up for less than two seperate hires I reckon.

Please don’t wear a “tuxedo” unless you are American. A gentleman should wear a dinner suit.

Waistcoat with white tie, not black.

TooTall is also right about proper collars and good shoes. A proper bow tie is desirable. Also, if you wear a comedy tie or silly coloured cummerbund, I will find you and kill you.

Better to do it properly.
I sometimes cheat on the shirt but a dress shirt does look betterer.
If you have some decent black shoes just polish them to within an inch of their life with proper polish.
Novelty bow ties look silly.
You can’t in my view tell a gentleman by his shoes any more only by his conduct.

You can’t in my view tell a gentleman by his shoes any more only by his conduct.

Illusions. Shattered. 🙁

I tend to have crap but well polished shoes. So maybe it’s wishful thinking…

Also as above, the details matter. Good shoes, correct shirt (don’t forget cuff-links), and a real bow tie.

If you’re doing to do it, do it properly I’d say; poor black tie looks worse than a smart lounge suit.

Black Tie:

Single-breasted (more formal) or double-breasted (less formal) Black jacket with silk/satin/grosgrain facings

Peak lapel (more formal) or shawl lapel (slightly less formal). Notched lapel is naff.

White pique marcella shirt with studs or concealed buttons with a regular collar (Wing collars are for white tie only in the UK; don’t be a pleb)

Cufflinks to match your studs if you have them, preferably gold colour.

Cuffs should not be visible from under your jacket.

Waistcoat (U-shape or backless) or cummerbund. Neither worn with a double breasted jacket.

Patent leather balmoral, oxford or court pump/shoe.

And for heaven’s sake don’t call it a “Tux” or even Tuxedo.

Dress appropriately for the season IMO

So it’s entirely wrong to wear a quality but fitted (to my honed builder physique) white shirt and thin black tie?

Yes

Here you go

There was a feature on the radio last week about it. Officially it’s DJ, black bow tie, proper shirt with collar. However, if you can carry it off a(thin) black tie is being seen more and more, and even dinner suit with a proper shirt worn open necked.

Question is whether it’s the sort of do where you want to blend in, or stand out (in the right sort of way).

And yes, cummerbunds are a capital offence nowadays.

I bought a formal dinner suit (for going to company awards dos / corporate Galas etc), only to find that 80% of the attendees just wore a darkish suit, white shirt and a thin black tie. Standards in Gala evenings in the Telecoms industry are not what they once were….

Black bow tie . Dress shirt with ” normal ” collar and concealed buttons. No need for cummerbund or waistcoat , either of which can make one look a complete berk. Keep it simple without comedy adornments. So if can be kept for future use.
Bought my dinner suit from M and S about 15 years ago, it’s been fine for the dozen or so times I’ve needed it and two dry cleanings it’s had. Looks new still.

Peasant question – what’s the difference between a dinner suit and a tuxedo?

Nomenclature

I disagree with flashy. a dark coloured waistcoat or a cummerbund is the correct attire with black tie. its purpose is to hide the belly bulge, make legs look longer and a waistcoat highlights/accentuates your shoulders. Dark as in the dim light of evening functions the black/white contrast wit hthe shirt is most striking. Don’t wear a waistcoat with a doublebreasted dinner jacket though, wear a cummerbund. If you go for a waist coat, they should be the U shaped front style, to show more of the pleated front of the dress shirt.
if you go for a cummerbund, the folds point upwards when its on.
this is different from white tie were the waist coat is marcella white, v-fronted and with lapels. I’ve no idea why that is the case, but it seems to be.
If you are slim a double breast jacket looks good but they don’t flatter the more portly gent. if you wear one, keep it buttoned, they hang badly when undone.

Do not wear a belt, even under a cummerbund, wear braces if you need to.

shirts – you should wear a dress shirt, ideally with pleats but flat fronted is okay. the buttons on a normal white shirt are what would look naff as these should be either studs, or covered. I prefer a wing collar but, or so I read just the other day, wing collar is more often reserved for white tie these days. Any collar is okay though, except a button down. The shirt shold have double cuffs too, and make sure the arms are long enough that you get some cuff protruding from the jacket.

you will be wearing a self tie bow tie I hope, clip ons can be spotted a mile off.

Most people probably won’t spot a black suit with no satin strip over the trouser seam, and no shiny lapels, nor will they object to a decent, standard white shirt (please make it a decent cotton one with double cuffs though, not a ploy-cotton one from George by Asda. You will look smarter in the proper attire though.

apparently, or so I read, velvet dinner jackets are in again – its the retro look. I blame Beckham and that Haig club advert. Personally I’ll stick to black wollen and smooth.

a tuxedo is simple american for black tie dinner suit.

http://www.houseofbruar.com/h.-moser-mens-moser-velvet-double-breasted-jacket-prodtr91167/

You know you want to really and the bike can wait!!!!

think I must have read the same gq article as mafiafish 😆

oh and shoes – any proper black well polished shoes ar fine. patent leather is good but definitely not essential.

I prefer a wing collar but

No buts. Your advice has just been negated by this quite unacceptable personal crossing of a line.

Wing collar has always been white tie and gits only.

no, wing collar used to be black tie too, its just one of those things that has been dropped more recently. remember, black tie is a dumbed down white tie, and the ‘rules’ never stay exactly the same. what is ‘proper’ and what is acceptable both evolve.
I will admit…wing collar and run the risk of looking too much like the waiter these days 😳 perhaps its time I bought a new dress shirt.

Personally I’ve never worn a waist coat or cummerbund with my dinner suit either. But since waist coats are back in for lounge suits, and I like them, I was considering a purchase the other day (hence why I read up on the current advice). when you look into the reasoning for the tailoring/garment, and don’t just consider it as part of ‘the uniform’ it makes sense, especially if your physique can benefit from these cheats the tailor offers us 😉

Of course you could follow Rhi-Rhi’s example, she obviously decided that the trousers had to have the satin strip, and the shirt HAD to be right…or not at all

Keep it simple …

Have you ever considered the multitasking suit for various occasions?

😛

wing collar used to be black tie too

Never, ever.

what is ‘proper’ and what is acceptable both evolve.

Nope.

Get yourself a copy of Debrett’s from any era and you’ll see wing collar is for white tie only. It always has been. I suppose you think it’s OK to wear your honours and awards anywhere you so desire!

This is a nice article on shirt collars for black tie

http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Classic_Shirts.htm

looks like wing collar has been in and out a couple of times, although if we rule out the american influenced trends….it has been out for some time.

As for the events, one is a fundraising dinner for a cancer hospital, and the other is a university Christmas dinner.

On the basis of the above…. just wear what you’ve got. Unless the events are seriously nobby, nobody is going to notice/give a sh*t. there will probably be people there in lounge suits anyway.

Black jacket/trousers, white shirt (normal collar) and black bow-tie (real, not a clip-on).

If you want to push the boat out, go and buy a “formal” white shirt with pleats, studs, concealed buttons or whatever.

On the wing-collar debate: I love them, easily identifies the people to avoid.

Some random website reference that can’t even make up it’s own mind? You may as well give me a Wiki reference!

http://www.debretts.com/british-etiquette/british-behaviour/h/dress-codes/black-tie

Debrett’s. British. Correct.

In case you were not sure this is what you are aiming for





Double points for ordering a Vodka Martini and having an argument about it being better shaken.
Further bonus points for waking up in the morning with an empty bottle of Dom Perignon, 3 glamorous assistants and a corporate card bill that will be hard to explain.

Bow tie can be undone at the end of the evening if the henchmen are proving difficult to finish off.

^ his dinner suit isn’t even black apparently, it’s midnight blue. If you disagree with that choice I’ll let you take it up directly with him.

At some point in life most blokes get to a point where they either need to buy a DJ as they’ll wear one at least yearly if not more, or not.

If you’ve reached this time, buy one and stop wasting money on renting and/or having to work out what to wear,

Otherwise, go through this charade every time an event comes up where you think you should/shouldn’t wear one.

I bought one about 10 years ago – and because once you own one you can wear it when/where you want to, I’ll be wearing it for our New Year party 🙂

I wear either a double breasted black dinner suit or a dark blue velvet single breast dinner jacket with brocade lapels… (given to me by an actor friend as he couldn’t fit into it any more, but worn by him in a film he was in with David Niven).
Always tied bow tie, usually a straight style, although I have some Dunford Wood hand painted silk ties.

b r – Member

At some point in life most blokes get to a point where they either need to buy a DJ as they’ll wear one at least yearly if not more, or not

I’m made it 43 years without reaching this point.

I’m hoping to make the next 43 without it too 🙂

At some point in life most blokes get to a point where they either need to buy a DJ as they’ll wear one at least yearly if not more, or not.

If you’ve reached this time, buy one and stop wasting money on renting and/or having to work out what to wear,

The problem comes when you make an early impulse decision to buy one, then hardly ever need to wear it so don’t want to ever buy a new one but the one you have is awful. I bought an ex hire one from Moss Bros one as a student or early graduate years ago for about £20. It’s tatty as hell but as it’s in my wardrobe and only comes out every 3 or 4 years max I’m too tight to get new one but know I look like a tramp when I do put it on, rather defeating the point of owning it. The only benefit of an increasing waistline is with luck I won’t be able to fit in the damn thing soon and I’ll be forced into action.