Forgive me…we haven't done Middle Lane Hoggers for a while have we?

Normally my driving is mainly between Brizzle, Bath and surrounding countryside so I don’t do much motorway miles. For the last six months I’ve been involved with some projects, all of which seemed to involve me driving M4 from Bristol to Swindon and then heading off in different directions from J15. I’m sure it’s a stretch of busy motorway with which many STWers are familiar or a similar length to that which many of us “have” to commute during the working week.

Through a combination of necessity and desire, I’ve been sticking fairly rigidly between 70-75 (indicated) and doing my best to keep good lane discipline. I’m far from a driving god and yes, occasionally I’ll find myself passing a second vehicle in the left lane while thinking “I really could have pulled back there…” Dunno, we’ve all done it i guess. We have haven’t we? 🙂

But holy shit! WTF is going on with middle lane driving? Is it more prevalent or is it a function of the ever increasing number of vehicles on the road? I realise confirmation bias will lead some of us to think it’s always doddery old men/women, van drivers, young women/men, reps, Audi/BMW/SUVers or whichever group with which we most object to sharing the road. But let’s be honest, it’s every type isn’t it? Apart from HGVs who kinda have to pull back in. Now, not all of them are boorish selfish shits, as demonstrated by them often flashing to let you out when indicating. Which implies at least some level of observation of other vehicles and a willingness to make room for others. But as they pass in the outside, it’s then back into middle lane and no further left than that.

So what makes people do it? We all learn the rules when learning to drive. They’re pretty bloody clear. So what makes people ignore them when they start using motorways? Is it lack of compulsory motorway lessons after passing the test? Is it a “Well, it’s only me that’s afraid to pull back in; hopefully everyone else will do it and not notice me.”? Has the ship sailed and will we never see proper lane discipline on the motorways again? Is it not really much of a problem and only something you notice when you’re attempting to do it properly?

This:

Through a combination of necessity and desire, I’ve been sticking fairly rigidly between 70-75 (indicated) and doing my best to keep good lane discipline. I’m far from a driving god and yes, occasionally I’ll find myself passing a second vehicle in the left lane while thinking “I really could have pulled back there…”

Plus this:

is it a function of the ever increasing number of vehicles on the road?

After a point, even if you’re not going 10% faster (or whatever the socially acceptable amount is) than the ‘slow’ lane you just look at the gaps and they’re all about what you should leave to t he car in front. Then either pull in, slow down to increase the gap to the car in front again and the car behind then overtakes, pulls in and you end up leap frogging down the motorway.

Or you’re just sat in the middle lane doing 70.

If everyone did stick to the letter of the law, we’d not need lanes through the 50mph speed limits (the camera’d ones anyway), because you can’t overtake, so why would you need to be in the outside lane?

Only daft/dangerous when the roads quieter and you get a stream of cars coming up the ‘slow’ lane and having to pull out 2 lanes to overtake a car doing well under the speed limit.

I think it’s a combination of things that cause it – fear of shifting lanes for some people, ‘I’m going faster than the speed limit or at the speed limit so don’t need to pull in as no one should be going faster than me’ for some people, ‘don’t give a shit’ for some people, don’t want other people to get past for some people, ignorance/lack of awareness for some people…..

It drives me mad.

What I have noticed is an increase in people who rather than moving over when the lane is clear, they speed up to justify not having to move over.
For example – I catch someone up while doing 70mph. They are overtaking an HGV. When they clear the HGV, rather than pull in so I can pass, they speed up to 70 mph or more and stay in that lane. A bit further along, they slow back down to their previous speed. I catch up again and rather than move over, they notice me behind them again and speed up again for a bit, but do not move over – repeat for ages.

Then there’s the people who let you past, but speed up as you overtake, so while you were catching them doing a steady 70mph, you get along side them and are now doing 80mph but no longer passing them.

The M5 north of Bristol is terrible for middle lane hogging – especially on a Sunday afternoon!

tl:dr
But bastards.

I think Cicero complained about oxcart lane discipline 2000 years ago.

Depends on traffic levels. I use the left lane rarely because in the left lane you either have to move out to let people in all the time, or to overtake a slow person, and you can’t because of the constant stream of cars in the middle lane. Only makes sense to use the left lane if you drive slowly, or if traffic is so light that moving from left to middle is easy.

As above – if you pull into slow lane yourself you can’t get back out again because of constant stream in the middle even though they can see you want to get out and lane 3 is empty. Blood pressure rising just typing this! Exits thread

Tragedy of the commons, innit.

I am finding if I stay in the left lane on the M62 going west on the way home I go a lot faster than anyone else and no one bats an eyelid about the undertaking. Quite happy doing 60mph in the inside lane while the rest are doing 50!!!

On cold winter mornings, some people find it hard to see behind them in their wing mirrors when pulling back in.

😉

That aside, it’s a particularly bad stretch in my experience. In fact, the M4 between Reading and the Bridge is all bad most of the time.

Doesn’t bother me, pointless legislation brought in to win votes from to people who get vexed by such nonsense.

If there was more consideration on the part of faster drivers to help lane 1 and 2 drivers pull out when it’s obviously needed, there would be a lot fewer who say ‘bollocks to it, I’m just staying out here then’.

The problem is generally pisspoor motorway etiquette, particularly at peak Audi/BMW times.

Give and take, innit?

doesnt bother me

Ah, we’ve got one. 😀

Its laziness combined with selfishness and a lack basic driving ability. That there are people like this on the road is disappointing but not news.

If there was more consideration on the part of faster drivers

Thats generally a problem everywhere, lots of roundabouts near me are getting lights as people where trying to get around at maximum speed meaning no gaps for others to get on the roundabout or peds to cross the road at exits and hence traffic lights needed.

What I have noticed is an increase in people who rather than moving over when the lane is clear, they speed up to justify not having to move over.

A variation is the people who drive at the same speed as the car in front, and if it’s clear they just boot it until they reach more traffic. But they don’t change lane.

So if I’ve pulled out of lane 1 and into lane 2 they come flying up behind, sit behind me at 70, ignoring the empty lane 3. And when I pull back into lane 1 they accelerate away. That’s not really a problem, just odd.

It’s more annoying when you come up behind them, move out to lane 3 to overtake, as you’re passing the car in front of them it pulls in, which frees the idiot up to accelerate. So you find yourself being undertaken (or just no longer overtaking) while Mr SuperRep flashes his Audi’s lights at you because it now looks like you’re in the outside lane for no good reason!

I don’t think it’s an education thing, certainly not for any recently passed drivers. Everyone I’ve spoken to about driving tests has driven on dual carriageways whilst learning, and the principle is the same. There are plenty of three lane (in each direction) dual carriageways with hard shoulders and slip roads that are perfect practice for motorways.

I think that licenses should be graduated, and that people should have to take a separate motorway test.

That would solve a good number of ills. Seriously.

M40 has gone from being a joy to drive on to a PITA recently. Lots of middle and outside lane hoggers involved in a never-ending chain of brake/accelerate/brake

Coming S on Sunday. I just sat in LH lane travelling at constant speed (70-75!) with pretty constant spacing between cars in front and behind. It was raining quite hard.

The other two lanes were involved in the antics described above meaning that the no one progressed faster than anyone else – apart for the off particularly aggressive *****

On the one hand I was relaxed, but felt conscious that when the other lanes braked hard and stopped I was effectively undertaking, which I is not safe and possibly (?) illegal.

Just lazy or stupid drivers. When you come across them no doubt the traffic will have slowed down as three lanes try to squeeze into the third to pass them. Although I have more and more people undertaking lane hoggers now whilst dangerous I can see why they are doing it.

Then there’s the people who let you past, but speed up as you overtake, so while you were catching them doing a steady 70mph, you get along side them and are now doing 80mph but no longer passing them.

HATE that!

A lot of people just switch off in their easy to drive ‘cocoons’..

A few years ago I had to drive around the southern stretch of the M25 early on Christmas Day morning – the road was virtually deserted but still there were numerous people who were just cruising along in lanes 2 and 3 in a world of their own.

in lanes 2 and 3 in a world of their own.

Still pissed from Christmas Eve parties.

What about the trend for single speed drivers? You know, the ones who drive at 40 mph on national speed limit roads and carry on through 30 mph limits at the same speed?
Childish I know, but I like to go through a 30 limit at spot on 30 with a big queue of Audis and VWs behind me …..

nickewen – Member

As above – if you pull into slow lane yourself you can’t get back out again because of constant stream in the middle even though they can see you want to get out and lane 3 is empty

I think this is a big part of the problem and is self-perpetuating. People don’t pull in when really there is plenty of space to, as they think that pulling in will mean they get boxed in just at the point that they need to get back out again. So, everyone just sits in lane 2, refusing to pull in when it would be sensible to do so.
This is exacerbated by the people who refuse to pull in driving too close together, so there are no gaps to pull back out into (they don’t want to lose ‘their space’) and also a refusal to move into lane 3 if they see a car in lane 1 catching a slower vehicle but having nowhere to go.

I drive down a fairly long 4 lane stretch of the A1 everyday and you get the same problem, just shifted over to lanes 3 & 4.
Lane 1 is ‘the slow lane’ occupied by HGVs. Lane 2 is for people who don’t want to be in the ‘slow lane’ even though they are going slowly or middle management salesman on the phone in their BMW/Audi’s who have gradually slowed down due to lack of concentration.
Lane 3 & 4 is where the alpha males tussle for domination and would never entertain the idea of moving over because that’s where the plebs drive.
It is these same people who are physically incapable of getting into the inside lane for the slip road they require any earlier than 20yds before the slip road starts even if this means cutting in front of the plebs and slamming their brakes on at the last minute.

I actually asked someone who admitted to this what their reasoning was. They said they didn’t know that it pissed people off and the reason behind it was that everyone else does it. He thought that the lanes were actually slow, medium, and fast lanes.

Not that a simple read of the highway code would educate that the lanes are overtaking lanes only and that you should keep left unless overtaking…

Of course, what constitutes overtaking distance? Personally anyone more than 10 seconds away doesn’t warrant moving to overtake.

you just look at the gaps and they’re all about what you should leave to t he car in front.

That I can understand but you get plenty of it on quiet stretches too.

Its laziness combined with selfishness and a lack basic driving ability. That there are people like this on the road is disappointing but not news.

If you frequently cycle on the road you know there are some arseholes driving around who really should not be behind a wheel. So yeah I guess we shouldn’t be surprised to fall foul of their ****ery on the motorway aswell.

People don’t pull in when really there is plenty of space to, as they think that pulling in will mean they get boxed in just at the point that they need to get back out again.

but a lot won’t pull out into the third lane either, they will slow down and speed up depending on what is in front of them but seemingly they will.not.change.lanes, they only do that on entering and exiting the motorway, normally two lane changes at once with nary a glance in their mirrors/blind spots.

M6 past Keele and Stoke, lane 1 generally the easiest place to be.

i live in deepest darkest devon. we don’t have middle lanes round here.

I’ll happily pass on the left, or go round them in circles until they pull in, which makes me worse than them, but hey they started it 🙂

It’s the newer 4 lane sections that really annoy me – why do so many have such a fear of using the new slowest lane? Looking ahead and seeing a mile of relatively congested lanes 2,3&4 with bugger all in lane 1. If you do the ‘right’ thing and use it you find yourself compelled to go out to lane 3 and back in again to overtake someone dawdling along in lane 2. I’ve started just undertaking them now – it’s wrong I know – shoot me.

craigxxl – Member

Just lazy or stupid drivers. When you come across them no doubt the traffic will have slowed down as three lanes try to squeeze into the third to pass them. Although I have more and more people undertaking lane hoggers now whilst dangerous I can see why they are doing it.

I don’t undertake them as such, I just ignore them with the brake covered in case they suddenly awake from their coma.

Especially on the M25 sometimes when it’s like this:

Me | EMPTY LANE | occasional car | nose to tail traffic

convert – Member
why do so many have such a fear of using the new slowest lane?

first, it’s not ‘fear’.

it’s because lane 1of4 often becomes an exit lane – and i don’t want to go to Peterborough.

(i have a slow car, i’m usually in the slow lane. If there are 4 lanes, it’s only a matter of minutes until it’s an exit lane. I don’t mind changing lanes as it helps break up the boredom, but i can understand the reluctance by some people)

just look at the gaps and they’re all about what you should leave to t he car in front.

I think this is a good point. People have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what the correct gap is supposed to be.

So they think if you don’t pull into a 100 metre gap then you must be “lane hogging”, when (if you consider stopping distances) that’s actually perfectly reasonable.

Just as bad in my book are the people obsessed with being in the left lane at all costs, who will pull into it just to leave it again within a couple of seconds.

I’m never sure if they are demonstrating their amazing knowledge of lane discipline or just their complete inability to read the road ahead.

Ah, we’ve got one.

Possibly…last year I was in the middle lane, car in front of me doing a similar speed, trucks on the inside maybe 300m apart(could be more or less) and the third lane clear.

I probably had cruise on which is usually about 75mph, when a idiot highway maintenance knuckle dragger flew up behind me flashing his lights and driving 2ft of my bumper.

I suspect he thought I should move into the gaps between trucks, I disagreed. and still do.

Whats more his driving was way more dangerous and unnecessary as the outside lane was empty but I imagine he was still propping up the bar(or metaphorical forum bar) that night going on about middle lane drivers in between all the other bollocks people like that go on about.

Middle lane fines my arse, they can’t catch and prosecute people who smear folk all over the road, who’s going to give a f about someone not pulling left as quickly as you would like!

Undertaking

No such thing. You are referring to overtaking on the left which is the conscious changing of lands to pass on the left and illegal, which itself is different from what you actually describe, which is just lane traffic moving at different speeds and NOT illegal.

British people are mostly arseholes who watch Strictly and vote Tory. Doesn’t surprise me that their driving behaviour is crap too 🙂

Anyone hear that supposed driving “expert” on Breakfast TV the other week. Northern bloke used to be on Fifth Gear or something, actually said “Changing lanes is the most dangerous thing you can do on a motorway” !! On TV!!

peterfile – Member
I’ll happily pass on the left, or go round them in circles until they pull in, which makes me worse than them, but hey they started it

😀

See, I had this on the way to London on Saturday morning where I realised I was helicoptering a car. Wondered how I was overtaking this guy on the outside then seeing him passing me in the middle. Turned out that instead of my speed being all over the place as I’d originally suspected, he was staying steadfastly in the middle and just driving between 60ish and 80ish depending on what was in front of him. 😐

Anyone hear that supposed driving “expert” on Breakfast TV the other week. Northern bloke used to be on Fifth Gear or something, actually said “Changing lanes is the most dangerous thing you can do on a motorway” !! On TV!!

More dangerous than closing your eyes? Using reverse gear/the handbrake? Parking up in lane 3? Giving/receiving oral sex?

I SO nearly came a croper of this on Saturday. M11, 3 lanes nothing in any lanes ahead of me of all of the visible road, so close to a mile.

BWM X5 and another vehicle both sat in the middle lane reasonable close to each other.

I was in the left lane and opted to stay there as there really was nothing ahead of me.

About 200m from the undertake of the X5 I realise my eyes have dialled into the tiny side repeater flashing, he finally decided to move lane but the rear inidicator isn’t functioning.

I was very grateful of my recently replaced brakes. I pretty much sacked off freeway driving after that for the rest of the journey.

I know I was in the wrong, but please check your indicator lamps everybody!

60mph westbound on the M62? Where were you, Hull?