[Closed] Foooooook! Why can't they name the fecker?!

Because of the society nowadays that protects the criminals rather than the victims.

I say bring back culling ... I mean brazen bull ... I mean just bring back hanging.

Why don't they name him - to protect him from vigilantes. He is a child in the eyes of the law

Chewkw - stop spouting hateful daily mail propaganda. That is simply untrue

Bring back hanging? How exactly will that help? 🙄

Well said TJ, you beat me to it!

Don't worry, he's clearly a poor misguided youth. Murdering children is ok, you can just talk to him and he will stop.

Because he hasn't been convicted of a crime and seemingly people like you would go and lynch him?

Innocent until proven guilty is a fairly important concept.

well you could try reading beyond the headline.

The boy, who cannot be named because of his age,...

Don't worry, he's clearly a poor misguided youth. Murdering children is ok, you can just talk to him and he will stop.

You should see if you can get a column in the Daily Mail with the way you can so spectacularly miss the point and twist people's words.

put a bounty on his head!

He's already in custody.

He hasn't been found guilty yet.

It's a bugger all this 'legal stuff' innit ?

Gawd I get so sick of you right wing fantasists on here. What earthly good does killing another child do?

We imprison more of our children than any comparable country, we criminalise them from an early age.

Don't worry, he's clearly a poor misguided youth. Murdering children is ok, you can just talk to him and he will stop.

Sounds more like he's seriously mentally disturbed.

ok the kid is a murderer.
but WTF is a mother doing leaving her child with someone like this.
who in their right mind would let any tom dick or harry look after theif child...

Innocent until proven guilty is a fairly important concept.

Unless children are involved, then people lose all logic or reason and demands someone, anyone; JUST ANYONE be killed for the offence.

Lets not let that little thing called "a trial" get in the way of things. 😐

but WTF is a mother doing leaving her child with someone like this.

She probably missed the label attached to his neck which said, "I am a murderer"

You will probably get your way. I bet he is both educationally subnormal - ie totally thick and emotionally retarded if not mentally ill.

However to satisfy the blood lust of scum like you will be tried in an adult court and sentenced as an adult.

And it is nothing to do with the human rights act - not naming children predates that act by far.

TJ: "Chewkw - stop spouting hateful daily mail propaganda. That is simply untrue."

I do not read newspapers except BBC "new media" ahemm ... Left or right I do not care as they are all evil.

Really just go medieval, as our American cousin would say, on them. Cull a few of the criminals to free up some space like they cull some of the animals at will.

Of course innocent until proven guilty then if found guilty hang them.

too many times things like this happen
i left my child with a friend/friends son/daughter/someone i met in the pub/ local uncle/paedo ect ect ect

get some ****ing responsibility in your lives.....

Wonder if it's the same people who were fantasizing about abusing kids in Hairychested's other thread that are expressing outrage about this?

chewk - but you are infected by their poison that has poisoned ourt society.

Innocent until proven guilty.

chewkw - Member

TJ: "Chewkw - stop spouting hateful daily mail propaganda. That is simply untrue."

I do not read newspapers except BBC "new media" ahemm ... Left or right I do not care as they are all evil.

Really just go medieval, as our American cousin would say, on them. Cull a few of the criminals to free up some space like they cull some of the animals at will.

Of course innocent until proven guilty then if found guilty hang them.

I really hope you read this again in the morning when your sober, as you are coming across as an idiot. 🙄

The defence will say he suffered an abnormality of mind which impaired his responsibility.

The toddler's mother, Ann Marie McDonald, told the jury she popped out to pick up her child benefit

So the boys maybe got some kind of mental problems and mummy left her precious little kid alone with him? Obviously not her fault then.
Why bother with trial by jury or innocent till proven guilty when all we really need are half a dozen paragraphs on the BBC new and a couple of knuckledraggers on a mountain bike website.

Well said that man.

I do not read newspapers .................. they are all evil.

Desperately tragic as this story is, these sort of threads do make me smile.

"[i]as our American cousin would say[/i]"

Yeah, cause of course the United States is crime free.

Yeah it's the namby pamby political correctness gone mad culture we have in this country now that means we can't go on a vigilante mission to abuse a mentally impaired child.

Violence breeds violence.

BigButSlimmerBloke
i meant that mate.....well put.

It's all part of the same problem, people deal with this sort of thing by lashing out, instead of behaving rationally and dispassionately.

Do you think people are born evil?

It's society's failings that lead to this kind of tragedy.

The teenager's clearly mentally/emotionally damaged and the mother showed very poor parental judgement - why not take your little girl with you to the post office or wherever.

How does hanging him help exactly?

How does hanging him help exactly?

It helps those who are unable to deal with the horror that a 15 year old could do such a thing, it's simple, like them.

[url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6555741.ece ]here[/url] is a better report

she had know him for four years and he had baby sat before.

TandemJeremy:"chewk - but you are infected by their poison that has poisoned ourt society."

Whose poison? I make up my own mind.

So if hanging is not an option then at least jail them criminals / muderers for at least 3/4 to life... and FFS! Do not give them the luxury in jail like watching TV, pool etc. Cramp 10 to a cell and let them go dog eat dog. FFS! Tax payers money is not here to reward criminals. But them to hard labour as well in chain gang.

Innocent until proven guilty but if found guilty the criminal should go into a shock when hearing the sentence. Obviously, they have the right to appeal etc ... blah blah blah!

A teenage boy beat to death a two- year-old girl while her mother went shopping for a card to mark his 15th birthday.

When her mother, Sindy McDonald, returned she pulled back the quilt to find her daughter’s face swollen with bruises.

The way they report these things doesn't help stupid people not to jump to conclusions - if you just read the first two paragraphs you wouldn't notice it says:

Demi Leigh Mahon received such extensive injuries that a pathologist identified 68 separate punches, kicks or bite marks, [b]Manchester Crown Court heard.[/b]

Violence is never the long term answer.
When will people realise?

sofatester: "I really hope you read this again in the morning when your sober, as you are coming across as an idiot."

So are you saying those countries that impose death penalty are idiots too?

Or do you not like our American cousin?

Yup - countries that impose the death penalties are idiots.

It is no coincidence that countries with punitive judicial systems such as ours and the USA have higher crime rates.

What do you want - vengeance? Or reduction in crime. You cannot have both ( to oversimplify a very complex situation)

ernie_lynch: "Yeah, cause of course the United States is crime free."

No, but at least they cull a few with 200 million plus population.

he is a child FFS and probbaly a sick one atthat from a deprived background.
I am not really sure how hatred/hanging /lynching like Chewkw will make this scenario better or prevent another in the future.

Are you claiming that those countries WITH the death penalty have lower crime rates or murders ?

Really just go medieval, as our American cousin would say, on them. Cull a few of the criminals to free up some space like they cull some of the animals at will.

TJ: "What do you want - vengeance? Or reduction in crime. You cannot have both ( to oversimplify a very complex situation)"

Reduction in head count of criminals.

Well is crime in the increase or decrease in general?

If in the increase the present system is not working so what is the next way? Let it be?

So are you saying those countries that impose death penalty are idiots too?

LOL ! Sorry to laugh on this thread but chewkw gets funnier with every post.

Yeah right, China and Iran are great role models for justice.

Why did I read this thread?

Junkyard: "I am not really sure how hatred/hanging /lynching like Chewkw will make this scenario better or prevent another in the future."

Innocent until proven guilty do you get it? But if proven guilty then the punishment must be severe ... very severe in the case of murder.

ernie_lynch: "LOL ! Sorry to laugh on this thread but chewkw gets funnier with every post.

Yeah right, China and Iran are great role models for justice."

WTF! Are you laughing at me? 😆

Check this ... When China or Iran execute their human stock the West go ape shite about human rights etc ... but yet when those people escape to claim asylum in the West none would offer them a hand. FFS! They are human after all and where is the compassion from the West?

I mean if all the Iranians and Chinese that fear prosecution or are in the process of being prosecuted go to the West to seek asylum would the West lend a hand to let them in?

I bet the West must be thinking "Insane in the main brain" to take all of them in but yet West want to preach their ways to others ... WTF! Please open the door to those that want to settle in the West and I bet China would willingly comply by giving them to the west.

yes and your explanation is what exactly?
you have just explained your position again and again and again

any chance you can explain how this will make things better or prevent another case that is what my question is

Junkyard: "I am not really sure how hatred/hanging /lynching like Chewkw [b]will make this scenario better or prevent another in the future.[/b]"

I assume |(you seem wise ) that you realise that the worst murderers in the UK of children was commited when the death penalty was still applicable. If it did not prevent/stop people /monster like brady and hyndley how will it prevent others?
Perhaps you are saying that if we had killed them that no child would have been harmed since?
perhaps you are just full of vengenge and just want revenge even though no real good will come of it
Any chance of a further explanation of WHY YOU THINK THIS WILL ACHEIVE ANYTHING POSITIVE rather than just a repeat of your position?

ps your post above barely makes sense I hope you are drunk I really do.

 

ernie_lynch: "LOL ! Sorry to laugh on this thread but chewkw gets funnier with every post.

LOL - Mr Pot, meet Mr Kettle and do feel free to comment on the darkness of his colouration

You find my posts amusing BigButSlimmerBloke ? Excellent !

*sings*

[i] Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life... [/i]

Junkyard: "Perhaps you are saying that if we had killed them that no child would have been harmed since?"

[b]No revenge intended[/b] but merely stating the system does not work. Those that deserve to take on the most severe form punishment should simply just that. Severe ... and not some "rehabilitation" sort of "holiday camp", where they spend their lives in "luxury" for few months or short period of time.

Death penalty is nothing but reducing the head count of the criminals that deserve them. The rest that are consider conducting crime such as murder should simply think twice.

Prevent or not the present system does not work.

Prevent or not the present system does not work.

I haven't murdered anyone this week.

So yes, the 'system seems to be working'.

Although hang on ..................

[i]"holiday camp", where they spend their lives in "luxury" for few months or short period of time[/i] - you say ?

Mmmm ........*scratches chin*

Chewkw - clasic daily wailism.

and not some "rehabilitation" sort of "holiday camp", where they spend their lives in "luxury" for few months or short period of time.

Rehabilitation reduces crime. Vengeance does not. Which do you want? Yes our judicial system is not what it might be - simply because we lock up too many people for too long without enough rehabilitation. Re offending rates are very high - because of the lack of rehabilitation.

I ask you again - which do you want - long punitive sentences that are hard labour or a reduction in crime. You cannot have both.

Go and do some reading. I suggest the Writings of Jonathon Aitken or Erwin James for starters. Then a bit of Durkheim on crime and punishment.

The vast majority of criminals are ill educated and often illiterate, frequently mentally ill and so on. Punitive sentencing makes it more likely they will reoffend and increase the severity of their crimes

You are ignorant and stupid and have no conception of reality on this. Have you ever been in a prison?

ernie_lynch: " I haven't murdered anyone this week.

So yes, the 'system seems to be working'."

LOL! Yes, in that case the system works for you in preventing you from murdering others.

"I suggest the Writings of Jonathon Aitken or Erwin James for starters. Then a bit of Durkheim on crime and punishment."

Jesus!!! TJ. I am not interested in reading or knowing what they said but my opinion there should be an ultimate punishment. I am not interested in whether criminals are illiterate (bet some are even more educated then I am) or not.

I just want them [b]take out of society for good[/b]. Cramp them into 10 per cell is good enough for me or if space is a limitation then perhaps you should "free up some space".

There are many uneducated people but I doubt all of them are murders.

Reduction in head count of criminals.

Per capita (that means per person) the equivalent system would see about 9 people in the UK executed, that means under you model one cell would be freed up.

Well is crime in the increase or decrease in general?

If in the increase the present system is not working so what is the next way? Let it be?

CaptJon:"Given, in general, it is working, yeah, let it be."

Not massaging the statistic or playing with the classification or definition of crime I hope ... 😆

CaptJon: "Per capita (that means per person) the equivalent system would see about 9 people in the UK executed, that means under you model one cell would be freed up."

Why not give it a try and see what happens? See if it deters others more as I think criminals have forgotten the good old days of being hang.

Official stats. If you want to deny all facts presented then you're a numpty.

Any better chewkwisms?

Those that deserve to take on the most severe form punishment should simply just that.

There are many uneducated people but I doubt all of them are murders

just cant keep up

See if it deters others more as I think criminals have forgotten the good old days of being hang.

I did find something you posted I could agree with

some [criminals]are even more educated then I am

Why not give it a try and see what happens? See if it deters others more as I think criminals have forgotten the good old days of being hang.

Most aren't old enough. I don't think understand the implecations of what you're arguing for. Go and read some stuff on the topic. Seriously; it is an interesting debate.

So chewkw - lock up all criminals for ever. It costs around £30 000 a yeaar IIRC to lockup a criminal.
How are you going to pay for this?
Are you ever going to release them?
If you do release them how are you going to stop them reoffending?

Jesus!!! TJ. I am not interested in reading or knowing what they said but my opinion there should be an ultimate punishment. I am not interested in whether criminals are illiterate (bet some are even more educated then I am) or not.

And I am suggesting that if you had a little grounding in reality, learnt a little bit of the truth and took some notice of the opinions of those in a position to know then you might not utter such stupidities as you have been doing on this thread.

You are ignorant and unwilling to do anything to dissipate that ignorance. That is stupidity.

Jonathon Aitken I gave you as an example as he is a right winger. He used to be in favour of the sort of judicial system you envisage - until he went to jail himself and learnt the reality of the situation.

CaptJon: "Official stats. If you want to deny all facts presented then you're a numpty."

As long as they keep the ultimate penalty I have no question.

"Most aren't old enough. I don't think understand the implecations of what you're arguing for. Go and read some stuff on the topic. Seriously; it is an interesting debate."

Unfortunately that means perhaps a change of trend might be called for.

Junkyard : "Any better chewkwisms?"

You are too generous.

Can you answer the point.

Which do you want - punitive sentencing or reduction in crime? You can only have one or the other. this is a well proven fact.

In fact can you answer any points anyone has made on this thread?

TJ : "Jonathon Aitken I gave you as an example as he is a right winger. He used to be in favour of the sort of judicial system you envisage - until he went to jail himself and learnt the reality of the situation."

I am not a right nor a left winger as I think both are simple nutters loving themselves big time.

But take this ... if you need to understand life by going to jail then there is fundamentally wrong with the society or the system in the society.

"So chewkw - lock up all criminals for ever. It costs around £30 000 a yeaar IIRC to lockup a criminal."

Cramp them together and feed them less.

"How are you going to pay for this?"

Hard labour so they have to work to pay for their stay in there.

Are you ever going to release them?

Not until they serve their full sentence whatever length that is.

If you do release them how are you going to stop them reoffending?

Harder labour, feed them even less, cramp them in a even smaller cell and lengthier sentence.

There's this old book I read once. IIRC, there was a line in there that said 'An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth'. Now, what was the book called again? Oh yeah, the Bible. I expect the Q'ran has something to say on the matter, too.
There's a Buddhist saying, also: 'The life of a being wishing to harm the innocent can be taken without harm reflecting on the taker'
While I'm not what you could call religeous, I'm with the Buddhists on this one.

TandemJeremy - Member

Can you answer the point.

Which do you want - punitive sentencing or reduction in crime? You can only have one or the other. this is a well proven fact.

Whats that wooshing noise - the truth escaping right over your head

Count - an eye for an eye makes us all blind - Ghandi

TandemJeremy : "Which do you want - punitive sentencing or reduction in crime? You can only have one or the other. this is a well proven fact."

Jesuss (spanish please)! You call capital punishment punitive?

I want a reduction in crime via capital punishment for the most severe crimes. Henry VIII style if possible.

TJ your must be devilshy annoyed at always being right!

As it stands my personal opinion is that anyone the murders a child and is proven 100% (not without reasonable doubt) should be put to death.
If someone asked me to vote on it I would. Your musings about such and such writer hold no sway. I dont care about other peoples opinions, even if they have been to jail. Personal choice is just that.
In this case I really couldnt care whether the alleged murder has had a tough life, maybe not been able to get the grades he wanted or even coulndn't read or write. He is alleged to have killed a very young and defenceless child and having read some of the reports it appears that he is going to get convicted of that. He is of no use to society now. Unless you want to donate him to Medical science or something like that.
I happen to know a couple of jailbirds coming from a less than salubrious background myself and they do happen to view being sent down for a stretch as a break from reality.
My opinion is that the reason that society is going down that pan quickly is that there are two many bleeding heart liberals looking out for the criminals rather than looking out for the victims.

Shands - crime is down over the last ten years significantly so our society is not "going down the pan". This is a moral panic cooked up by the press to sell newspapers.

The fact of the matter is our judicial system does nothing to reduce crime - it perpetuates it by its very nature as you would know if you had any knowledge of the subject.

We don't know the full facts of this case and I am not attempting any defence apart from saying that I bet he is both mentally ill and not "maybe not been able to get the grades he wanted or even couldn't read or write. " but educationally subnormal. There is a significant difference. I might be right I might be wrong. My guess. The thread quickly diverged into a more general case.

You don't care about other peoples opinions or writings. You prefer to make your opinions in ignorance?

Chewkw -

I want a reduction in crime via capital punishment for the most severe crimes. Henry VIII style if possible.

and explain to me how this works? The experience from worldwide is that it does not. The threat of capital punishment would not have deterred this boy from killing

Ts! Ts! Ts! TJ ...

I have given you some good suggestions above.

So what you say?

CountZero: "There's a Buddhist saying, also: 'The life of a being wishing to harm the innocent can be taken without harm reflecting on the taker'"

Count ... hold the horse there.

[b]Need to define "wishing to harm" carefully as your sentence above might be misinterpreted as allowing to kill so long as there is someone trying to harm you.[/b]

There is a delicate debate on this but ultimately the act of defending oneself by killing the assailant(s) can only be last resort. One wrong move and the negative karma accumulation is severe for the person that kills.

chewkw - Member

Ts! Ts! Ts! TJ ...

I have given you some good suggestions above.

So what you say?

I say stupid unworkable suggestions without any thought or idea of reality.

Shands

I happen to know a couple of jailbirds coming from a less than salubrious background myself and they do happen to view being sent down for a stretch as a break from reality.

any how awful must their reality be if prison is preferable. Have you been inside prisons? I have

TJ: "...and explain to me how this works? The experience from worldwide is that it does not. The threat of capital punishment would not have deterred this boy from killing."

Ts! Ts! Ts! But your present system does not deter too ... so what you say? We are in a dead lock here so it boils down to cost of "rehabilitation" but I have given my suggestions above.

Also ...

If this boy is mentally ill that is different story but if he is sane than another story. It is up to the lawyers now.

My opinion is that the reason that society is going down that pan quickly is that there are two many bleeding heart liberals looking out for the criminals rather than looking out for the victims.

You should write a book.

TJ : "I say stupid unworkable suggestions without any thought or idea of reality."

Never try never know.

Give it a go and see how it works.

Chewkw - rehabilitation that prevents crime saves more money than it costs

I would say a child that kills is mentally ill by definition. a very arguable point I agree.

However - enough - please have a read of Aitkens stuff - it really is very worthwhile.

[img] [/img]

Crime might be down in general but levels of violent crime have risen expotentially. As for the authors you suggest one has become a born again christian whilst serving a stretch and the other is also a convicted criminal who now happens to write for that bastion of all things good (ha) the guardian.
So your advocatating that we should put our criminal justice system into the hands of convicted criminals and that would make a better socitey. What utter nonsense you spout!
I feel the youth of today (may I feel old sometimes)have little or no respect for peoples or property and maybe a system like they have Maricopa County might help to avert us from the slippery slope we are on. Maybe we are to late.

Shands - violent crime has not risen exponentially - you are simply wrong on that. There have been rises and falls over the last ten years.

I think aitken has something to add to the debate. His conversion from hanger and flogger to a believer in rehabilitaion is quite fascinating. Have you read his writings? I have.

I am interested in what works, not pandering to the knee jerk desire for vengeance.

Punitive systems are in action in the states and China as well as here- they simply do not work. Proven.

TandemJeremy: " Chewkw - rehabilitation that prevents crime saves more money than it costs.

It costs even less by my method above by putting 10 to a cell and by feeding them less and on hard labour.

"However - enough - please have a read of Aitkens stuff - it really is very worthwhile."

Like I said before if one needs to understand how to differentiate right from wrong by going to jail then there is a fundamentally wrong with the society. i.e. insane in the main brain.

Jail is hell. People go there to regret or in some cases not. People suffer in there no doubt about it and compassion is extended to those that are willing to help themselves first by completely undergoing whatever sentence given to them may it be capital.

TJ ... you may have contracted Stockholm syndrome?

There is compassion for those that kills but what they deserve is what the society gives. That is their karma. No matter how severe the sentence given and if one understand that one has committed heinous crime and accept the punishment fully there is help but if one reoffends then they deserve all that are given to them.

"Executing a murderer is not justified, but it is sometimes necessary for the public good. Even a pack of wolves will drive off a mad dog. If he cannot be driven away, and find his death elsewhere, then they will kill it. The rat does not steal, the cat does not murder. Each acts according to his nature. So too, it is with Man."

Ashida Kim on War

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8113182.stm ]BBC News - Boy 'tried to eat toy sandwiches'[/url]

Rehabilitation for the parents? I rather like to put them to hard labour, feed them less and cramp them into a 10 person cell.

chewkw - Member

"Insane in the main brain"

😯