First car for a 31 year old IT nerd – something interesting a very bad idea??

He was an idiot then. To de-flood (is that a word?)

Hehe.. irony 🙂

The word is ‘drain’.

Word of caution regarding road tax for the RX8, post March 06 its in band M ie £460 for a year!

The OP’s an IT Nerd, not a hairdresser

Pipe down, the threads for people who know something about cars. 🙂

I’d go for a Golf GTi or GT TDi – comfy, interesting enough whilst you’re still a relative novice and insurance should be painful rather than crippling. Good resale and pretty safe. Useful for life in general. FWD – RWD is an acquired taste, I grew up in it so I prefer it but YMMV.

Leon Cupra might be a cheaper alternative, but I had the 180bhp variant a few years back and it’s a bit of a handful compared to the Golf (excluding the R32 ofc).

😆 @ molgrips

“Leon Cupra might be a cheaper alternative, but I had the 180bhp variant a few years back and it’s a bit of a handful compared to the Golf (excluding the R32 ofc).”

Serious question, how can one FWD be more of a handful than another? They either torque steer, or just cant put their power down IMO. OK Some are better than others, but at some point they all end up understeering out of corners.

OP – please ignore all the naysayers and buy something interesting.
You are not going to die, I promise*, certainly not in an MX-5, and there’s a 99.9999% chance you won’t die in an RX-8 either. You might run out of cash doing 18mpg, but you won’t die.
Life’s too short to be sensible ALL the time – if kids are on the horizon, enjoy a fun car now, while you can. Take it easy, don’t try to find your limits or the cars limits in the first 10 miles (do a track day or two to find them) and you’ll be fine.

*terms and conditions apply

Ford Puma?

What Rogg said.

You’ll never regret having interesting bikes/cars/etc. You may regret not doing it while you had the chance.

MR2/MX5/Boxter can all be made to work with bikes.

Some of the suggestions on here for ‘interesting’ cars are the least interesting cars you can think of. Anything from VAG (Audi,volkswagen,seat etc) will be tedious as hell to drive, even the fast ones , and I speak as an Audi S3 owner. And anyone who thinks any diesel version is interesting has clearly lead a very sheltered car life.

Any FWD hot hatch will be a bit uninteresting, I also speak as a civic type R owner.

The various people that have suggested the Mx5 are right on the money, it would be an ideal first interesting car, you’ll learn loads about how to drive without it being dangerous in inexperienced hands. Others to consider are the RX8, Honda s2000 ( a cracking choice, I used to have one), porsche boxster, maybe an Mr2.

Or you could go all silly and buy a caterham 7, but thats not really a sensible choice for a new driver.

I was in a very similar situation. Passed this year at 29, had a Fiat Cinquenceto to learn in a mate gave me, it broke after 6 weeks. Got an MG ZR 105+ off my sister in exhange for some furniture and a week of labour, that broke too (head gasket). Girlfriends mum lent me her MX5 in the summer for a weekend but I ended up only giving it back a few weeks ago. All I can say is as a ‘new’ driver the lack of visibility is an issue, especially with a passenger. You will find you stall more than you want to and will need to be 100% positive when exiting junctions, it was so easy at the start to stall it. So depends what you want, from a car. I’ve done my pass plus, drive and survive and some skid pan lessons since passing. I now have a Celica and I’m looking to buy an Elise in January. There’s no reason you need to get a typical 1st car, just be careful and be prepared to stall till your used to it. If you go for something a bit sporty get extra training as when it goes wrong it’s not as forgiving as a diesel fiesta, soon becomes second nature though.

Good luck and enjoy your driving.

I agree with an MX5 it’s a fun little car that at legal speeds is a laugh to drive, is reliable and cheap to maintain.

You really have to decide what you are going to use the car for and buy appropriately an MX5 isn’t the roomiest or most practical.

I’m an IT ‘nerd’ and just bought a mk1 Audi TT (04 reg).

Wahey! Pick up tonight…

And anyone who thinks any diesel version is interesting has clearly lead a very sheltered car life

I wish car snobs would just speak for themselves once in a while. It’d save a whole lot of stupid arguments.

Honda Civic Sport, older shape.

Quick, fun, roomy enough for kit, FWD and fun, but not as GRRRRR as a Type-R.

Serious question, how can one FWD be more of a handful than another? They either torque steer, or just cant put their power down IMO. OK Some are better than others, but at some point they all end up understeering out of corners.

I more or less agree with you, so I guess it comes down to a count back on how many times the Cupra tried to kill me with understeer vs the Golf, and the Cupra has it 🙂 The Cupra was putting down a lot more power than equivalent Golfs at the time, so it felt more twitchy – sort of like the difference between XT and Hope brakes.

To be fair it was the first FWD I’d driven for a few years, so it was probably my problem at least 80% of the time.

Honda Civic Sport, older shape.

Quick, fun, roomy enough for kit, FWD and fun, but not as GRRRRR as a Type-R.

Good call that

I do worry about some of the things I read on hear about driving.

Modern FWD hatches are pretty darn easy to drive. Its not like the good old days of 305’s with big lift off oversteer.

Pretty much any car built in the last 10 years will understeer at the limit and tuck in if you lift off a bit. This includes rear wheel drive cars. They design them so if you panic you don’t crash. You have to make a gross error to loose control of a modern car, they practically drive themselves.

I’ve not read all this but the IT nerds with self awareness at my place buy TT’s because it makes them different and cool and provides a possible means of attracting the opposite sex.

The full blown nerds, the one’s with model planes on their desks and their weekends at re-enactment groups, drive their mum’s old micras.

Car snob? me? – Yes, I probably am.

but I’m not one of these who discounts something purely based on its cost/monetary value .

If you dont need the physical space , then something like an mx5 will be great and way more interesting than any hatch back of equivalent value. I’d rather spend 5k on an old s2000 than 20k on a diesel golf.

Diesels also have many plus points, but being ‘interesting’ isnt one of them – Assuming interesting means engaging and entertaining to drive. I guess its all relative, i can see how a diesel manual golf would be more interesting than a 1.2 petrol automatic corsa, but interesting in the absolute sense in terms of comparison with other cars of similar value? not a chance.

Ford Puma?

Ooh, that’s a great shout. Quick, handles fantastically, looks good and is something a bit different to a hot hatch (although clearly it is one but in a coupe shell). If you can find one of the limited Racing Pumas then even better (bit more grunt, taughter suspension etc). Think they are around £2-3000 for a good one now and insurance wouldn’t be crazy either.

“Modern FWD hatches are pretty darn easy to drive”

Never said they were not easy to drive, they are just dull…. the only way you have fun in them is left foot braking or lift off oversteer.

“Pretty much any car built in the last 10 years will understeer at the limit and tuck in if you lift off a bit.”

Nope decent RWD chassis do not understeer at the limit.

“I’m an IT ‘nerd’ and just bought a mk1 Audi TT (04 reg).”

Its still not too late is it? They are renound for being an incredibly dull ‘sports’ car to drive.

Sorry if this is a mini hijack, but I’m in a similar boat, I’ll be 28 by the time I’ll get my license.

However I need something that can carry all my tri stuff and the Mrs to events (which may including camping stuff also. Which is actually the sole reason for need to get my license, though also work work like me to drive etc, but I’ve lasted 8yrs without a license.

I was looking at something like an older Multipla, though I know I’ll probably end up with a Fiesta and a bike rack.

You have to make a gross error to loose control of a modern car, they practically drive themselves.

If you’re talking about a modern car being something built in the last 10 years (as you refer to) then I think this is dangerous talk. The OP can afford and wants something fun. That could include a Lotus Elise well under 10 years old, for example. As someone who has written off an Elise I know all too well how far removed the handling and (lack of forgiveness) is compared to the kind of car I think a beginner should be learning in. Remember you don’t learn to drive to pass your test, all you do is learn to pass your test. The real learning then starts, and you don’t want to be learning in something that is going to bite if you make a mistake…which you will.

OP, sorry for being a boring old nannying drag, but if you really want a proper sports car please make sure you take it to a track day or airfield to learn how to drive it. I wish I had.

I drove a TT for a weekend. Couldn’t wait to get back in my Puma.

The TT is one of the best looking cars of all time though*. Just a shame it was mostly bought and driven by people I didn’t have any affinity for.

(* unlike the current TT which is very forgettable).

Never said they were not easy to drive, they are just dull…. the only way you have fun in them is left foot braking or lift oversteer.

Neither did I and you can’t left foot brake in VAG cars as they cut the power so making them even more dull 🙂

Nope not decent RWD chassis

Like what ? Even the latest Elsie will tend to tighten its line if you lift off. I agree an old Mk2 MR2 or such like won’t like you lifting off mid bend but you will get away with it on anything modern. All modern BMW’s are set up like this.

I am currently looking for a Z4M Couple but I want one in Blue with black leather and as there are only about 500 in the country its proving hard 🙂

Edit to add

Just saw your post stilltortoise and to be honest the Elise wast the only car I could think of that was remotely still like this, but the later cars with narrower front tyres are a lot more forgiving, they also softened the rear suspension to make them easier to drive.

Which Elise did you have and what did you do ?

FunkyDunc – Member

“Leon Cupra might be a cheaper alternative, but I had the 180bhp variant a few years back and it’s a bit of a handful compared to the Golf (excluding the R32 ofc).”

Serious question, how can one FWD be more of a handful than another? They either torque steer, or just cant put their power down IMO. OK Some are better than others, but at some point they all end up understeering out of corners.

FWD cars can handle very differently depending on suspension geometry/setup/roll stiffness etc.

Unless you get a bit silly with the throttle my Clio 172 Cup doesn’t understeer, it will however pick up the inside rear wheel and adopt mild oversteer, and if you’re foolish enough to lift off the throttle while doing this, the it’s going to send you backwards throught the nearest hedge/wall/lampost.

The cup also feels completely different to the standard 172 I’ve just sold on because it’s slightly lower and stiffer (10mm lower and 10%stiffer iirc), has solid topmounts on the front suspension turrets, runs more negative camber (-2 against -1.5) and a little more toe out on the front wheels (1.5mm vs 1mm).

So no not all FWD cars are the same.

I’m an IT nerd and I’d not swap my Civic Type-R (EP-3 for the purists) for anything else at the moment. Only got it recently though it’s still got that ‘new’ feel for me – despite being 10 years old!

Only 3k and you could stick a baby seat in the back if you really felt the need.

Speaking with some experience of an RX-8. (working in a joint franchise dealer, one of which is Mazda)
The RX-8 is a not as fast as it looks, thirsty, mildly unreliable car, that when (not if) it breaks down gets very expensive to repair quite quickly.

For the OP however, how about a 306 GTi-6? Comfy ish. Can cruise easily and relatively frugally, 6 speed box. Makes an awesome noise when you boot it. Has plenty of toys. Bike’ll go on roof bars or a towbar no problem.

I agree with the un interseting diesels to a point.
They’re fun, at first, but you soon get bored of not being able to chase the revs and wring the performance out of them. A modern turbo petrol tends to be the same though.

For truly interesting it needs to be no younger than about 10 years old, high revving naturally aspirated and ideally rwd.
Honda S2000 springs to mind. As does an Elise.

Modern ‘Hot hatches’ tend to just be lukewarm now.
No real driver involvement, they just feel a bit detached.

I must admit I am a fan of RWD cars but I would not rule out some of the really modern FWD stuff.

The Clio Cup car momo mentions as well as the Megane look to be awesome cars.

Question momo have they not just bolted on suspension suited for a race track and thus make them not so much fun on the road. Running all the negative camber does that not make it a bit nervous on the road ?

I had a Westfield with a turbo busa engine in it and I loved it on track and it made so much sense on track. But it was truly terrible on the road and didnt really enjoy driving it as it followed all the cambers etc and was really nervous due to the amount of -ve camber I was running. Great at turning in on track though 🙂

Momo I appreciate what your saying and to some extent it comes down to personal preference on what style of handling you like.

Any FWD push it to its limit and no matter what, you end up just scrubbing out the front tyres, unless you stay on the edge of grip like you state above. In RWD you have more to play with, you can go beyond the limit of grip and balance the car still on the power out of the corner in a way that is just so satisfying and just not possible in a FWD.

Bazzer – All cars tuck in if you lift off its just physics, always have done always will do. I was refer to RWD chassis that don’t understeer on the limit.

To me RWD isn’t about getting from A-B as fast as possible, but about getting there using skill and finesse and having a great big grin on your face that FWD just can’t give.

“I had a Westfield with a turbo busa engine in it and I loved it on track and it made so much sense on track. But it was truly terrible on the road and didnt really enjoy driving it as it followed all the cambers etc and was really nervous due to the amount of -ve camber I was running. Great at turning in on track though”

Well why didn’t you just set it up more for the road?

I left my company car scheme about 3 months ago because I fancied the cash and the options for company cars were pretty limited.

I bought an MX5 (no sniggering at the back) because after a couple of test drives I can honestly say they are the most fun little car I have ever encountered. It is not that quick but for 3k got Bilstein suspension, 6spd gearbox, LSD, 80k on the clock, 03 plate 2.5 facelift model. Absolutely cracking car and very easy to live with, runs like a little sewing machine, corners like a roller coaster, easy to catch if you are a little over exuberant and cheap to run. you will always get home with a smile and might get to keep your license!

Do it!

Bazzer – All cars tuck in if you lift off its just physics, always have done always will do. I was refer to RWD chassis that don’t understeer on the limit.

Very few do this though these days and its common practice to set RWD race cars up to do this as it makes it easier to drive them on the limit. This does not mean you can’t provoke a bit of oversteer with your right foot 🙂

What I was trying to say was gone are the days that lifting totally off the gas mid bend will give you big lift off oversteer, like early Elise’s, 911’s and older BMW’s etc. Obviously there will be exceptions at the extremes but 99% of cars are pretty idiot proof these days.

What do you drive FunkyDunc ?

To me RWD isn’t about getting from A-B as fast as possible, but about getting there using skill and finesse and having a great big grin on your face that FWD just can’t give.

Well said, and exactly why a beginner should steer clear of RWD. They don’t have the experience to read the road nor anticipate problems and don’t have the skill nor finesse to get themselves out of the trouble they will get in to.

OP, if you really REALLY want a fun car, try it out on a wet and slippy track day. If you can handle it that’s one box ticked, but remember there’s still a lot of experience you need to gain to transfer car handling skills to a public road.

Well why didn’t you just set it up more for the road?

Because I was doing about 15 trackdays a year and that’s what I built it for and didn’t want to compromise it. Totally mental on track so much fun 🙂

“What do you drive FunkyDunc ?”

As stated for reasons above I currently drive a Ford Mondeo 2.0 diesel 😈

When Jnr FD is older and I have a decent garage, I think a nice weekend Caterham/Westfield/Atom may have to be purchased…

When Jnr FD is older and I have a decent garage, I think a nice weekend Caterham/Westfield/Atom may have to be purchased…

Have you had one before ?

For pure driving pleasure I don’t think you can better a Seven of some description.

I tried a Radical SR3 and it was just too good, where the 7 is your friend and encourages you the SR3 just laughs and says is that all that you have 🙂 I decided it would demand so much of me as a driver to get a thrill out of it, I kept the Westifield.

Nope not had one before, but driven a couple, one on a track and one a friend of a friends. I was expecting both to be really twitchy and quite a handful but both were just beautifully balanced. The one on the road to be honest I didnt really push. On the track though I instantly felt comfortable with it and could push it. I guess exactly the point you make above.

Never been near an Atom but the whole lunacy of the thing appeals, not sure if it would actually be as nice to drive though as a slower 7 type thing..

I have never driven an Atom either but love the looks and the madness of it al.

I have a friend who is a suspension expert and he reckons there are some issues the design of the Atom. That said though there is with Westfields and Caterham’s

If I was going to go for a track biased Westfield again I would go for a fairly bog standard Megablade Chassis with an R1 engine fitted. Not as expensive as my old car ended up and with 95% of the fun for 505 of the cost.

I’m in a similar situation, at 28. Bear in mind what you can afford to insure – we’re well over the 25yo ‘young male driver’ group, but you’re still a first time driver.