We did try and get some additional maths tuition but every tutor worth anything is booked solid seemingly indefinitely.

Probably because middle class parents have the time and money to drive their kids across a city to get them into the so called best religious school. Whereas working class parents don’t have the time, money or can’t be arsed and just send their kids to the local school. I’m middle class but clearly put myself in the can’t be arsed camp, to be fair the schools are all quite good. If you are happy to drive you kids half way across a city to get them to school each day then you probably take their education very seriously and do a lot more out of school education and push your kids more academically. Other people probably push their kids in other ways that may not result in better exam results but their kids might be overall better rounded.

OP you have plenty of choices and have articulate them in your first post.

So you are anti the supernatural, That’s one choice made. THe easy one.

So grammar or comp? Second choice. Should be easy too.

If grammar, what’s the problem? Maths. So third choice – give in or do something about it?

As a parent you have your next choice – lead by example. Your daughter is bright but has an issue with maths. “Teach” her that life is all about overcoming challenges. This time it’s 11+ maths

Start

https://www.cgpbooks.co.uk/Parent/books_11Plus_maths

Puts some hours and graft in together and pass the maths, it’s not hard. No excuses, just a bit of effort. Early lesson in life passed and learned. SImple.

CGP really is your friend. All for the cost of an inner tube and a few hours of graft.

wow. Retrain people to not have faith. off to dprk for you

I didn’t say anything of the sort. They will be free to worship outside of the workplace just like everyone else.

No one is born any faith. You are made into one.

True I was going to write born into a familly of but couldnt be bothered.

Choice in state education in this country is pretty much just an illusion saying you have choice is a red herring used to gloss over the fact that lack of investment in education means many schools are shit. We could choose 3 or 4 schools for our son and got placed in one based on the fact it was the closest not sure how thats choice.

Selecting pupils based on faith shouldnt be legal within the state system imo. By all means have a school with Catholic values if you want just make them teach those who apply…but then if they didnt get to choose those with “invested”parents they might not look better!

Puts some hours and graft in together and pass the maths, it’s not hard. No excuses, just a bit of effort. Early lesson in life passed and learned. SImple.

So you are saying every single person in britain could pass the maths part if they just put in some personal effort? NO EXCUSES and of course every parent is capable of being a teacher as well.

Interesting view of education that “thick” people have just not put in enough effort and everyone can pass it if they try 😕

Is it because of additional structure and discipline?

Divine intervention? 😉

Loddrick, education is more than exams as is often repeated on here. So here is a chance to educate your bright daughter about three choices:

Give in
Run Away
Overcome

Which is the best option to take, now and in life?

Surely the point is that education is the only part of public life where religious discrimination is allowed. And it is supported through tax.

I only have experience of Catholic schools, but you would really struggle to get in without being Catholic as they will always take Catholic kids first, just check out the admissions policy of your local Catholic school, it will be on the website.

I have no problem with religion being taught in schools to the willing, but I do have a very big issue with discrimination on religious grounds in access to state funded education

Give in
Run Away
Overcome

Which is the best option to take, now and in life?
Go private?

Alternatively the state is providing a choice for those who would like to attend faith schools? And if that is the case, what is wrong with those who want to be their getting first dibs?

FWIW, Mrs THM teaches in a catholic school but is not a catholic nor are many of her pupils. She does rate the lunches very highly though it has to be said. Apparently the songs a quite fun to join in with too… 😉

Why should anyone get first dibs on anything because of religion? May as well just have white schools (you don’t have to be white, but whites will get first choice) if they performed well, would that justify their existence?
It’s discriminatory, and narrows choice. Religion should not be taught in school other than purely from an objective point of view.
I sympathise with Lodders here, I’d be nervous if I knew I was putting jnr in the hands of religious people for 30 odd hours a week.

Alternatively the state is providing a choice for those who would like to attend faith schools? And if that is the case, what is wrong with those who want to be their getting first dibs?

Because its state sponsored faith based discrimination?

Also struggling to see how reducing choice for most improves choice

That’s a tough question. The state provides an option for people of certain faiths using scarce resources, Do they allocate/prioritise those resources to those who wish to use them and for who they are intended or to those who do not. Hmmmm…..

If you are nervous, the answer is simple. After all haven’t you heard all the stories…..

It’s discriminatory, and narrows choice. Religion should not be taught in school other than purely from an objective point of view.

Oh I see, we should discrimination against the religious and narrow their choice instead? Obvious really…..

I think people need to be more confident in their children’s ability to spot propaganda and ignore it. I did when at school, the posters moaning about faith schools did as well.

As I said – I have no problem about religion being taught in schools – but I do with faith based discrimination determining access to schools. As a society we have decided that faith based discrimination is illegal in pretty much all other contexts yet have a blind spot when it comes to something as fundamental as education.

The point is about now using scarce resources in support of a discriminatory approach to selection – it is perfectly possible to do away with that and still allow faith within education.

Basically it’s inclusive versus exclusive approach to education and faith

Oh I see, we should discrimination against the religious and narrow their choice instead? Obvious really…..

wouldn’t be any discrimination though would it?? equal for all.

I’m pretty sure that discriminating against discrimination isn’t discrimination – the legislation would be pretty pointless otherwise

That’s a tough question. The state provides an option for people of certain faiths using scarce resources, Do they allocate/prioritise those resources to those who wish to use them and for who they are intended or to those who do not. Hmmmm…..

The question is not should faith based school exist but should they be able to discriminate. Everyone wants an equal chance to access a good school surely. ( actually I suspect many dont guve a shit about their childs education but that another matter).

Indeed – take away all choice and we are all equal!! What colour would you like your model T?

any way back on topic

Loddrik – you could nail working with numbers this weekend. Simple techniques to make rounding questions a doddle (100% on those) – could be covered today. Addition and subtraction both on Sunday.

Nail those topics – a bright girl can do that – and confidence will grow quickly. Maths is often about keeping it simple and using specific techniques. THEY CAN BE LEARNED and without that much effort. Easy to incorporate into games too. Dare I say it, maths can be fun!

Click on the CGP link and read the first few pages. Notice what they do. Start with rounding up and down. V simple methods and steps (in green ink) to make it very easy. From this, they build into addition. How?

Two methods – (1) use what you have just learned (ie rounding up and down) and apply and/or (2) the trad way we all learned as kids ie use standard columns. Their jokes are bad by kids still love them!!

Give it a go. Its fun and will open up her choices. Good luck.

Indeed – take away all choice and we are all equal!! What colour would you like your model T?

The choice is still with the parents let their kids go to that school or not. What we have said removes the choice from the school.

THM – since when is choice about forced exclusion based on religious (or racial etc) difference?

Your argument is logically flawed, you seem to be saying it would be discrimination to stop people discriminating on religious (etc) grounds

You tell me – actually don’t bother as I don’t give a monkeys, frankly. Its a waste of time making excuses.

Roll your sleeves up and get on with some work. Then the world is your oyster.

Now ratio and proportion questions – a little trickier at first.

Indeed – take away all choice and we are all equal!!

A bit extreme. The only thing which is being suggested is that we don’t have schools based on religion. A workplace wouldn’t be allowed to discriminate against heathens or religious people, in fact nowhere would like schools do. Would it be OK for a non-denominational school to select atheist kids ahead of those with faith just to even it up?

A workplace wouldn’t be allowed to discriminate against heathens or religious people, in fact nowhere would like schools do.

What about churches?

I sympathise with Lodders here, I’d be nervous if I knew I was putting jnr in the hands of religious people for 30 odd hours a week.

I had the same concerns, and there is a bit of Jesus Jizz flying around since she started. As above though, I’m confident she’ll be her own person and will get my views for balance.

The cruel paradox being that atheism is a faith – in a contemporary context a faith in a technocratic era – libtarded …

Reading fail?

@Wrecker – yep. Sorry. Retain makes much more sense. Thanks Bazz

Roll your sleeves up and get on with some work. Then the world is your oyster.
Now ratio and proportion questions – a little trickier at first.

Unless you are excluded from a good school because your parents dont pray to the right sky fairy or indeed dont pray at all. I suppose in your world of private education or grammar school then hard work does pay off. In the rest of the world we lie to the kids and tell them if they work hard they can get where anyone can but actually they will find it far far harder if their parents are poor or uneducated or just a bit shite or in this case are not Catholic. If you think this is a good thing then you have my pity.

I’m a pretty committed atheist but my boys have gone to C of E schools. I’m surprised that you have faith based requirements for admission. I’ve just looked at their admissions policy and it has faith 6th on the list and only requires children adhere to christian principles. Siblings, disability and then area are the three top criteria.

As touched as I am by the generosity of your offer, save your pity for those who are lied to or who have people making excuses for them. They are the losers ultimately.

Anyway, given recent Towers correspondence I’m out of this debate before it goes further in the wrong direction.

Good luck with your choice loddrick. I hope you make the correct one. Maths is fun and really not that difficult. At least not below GCSE. And CGP books are a great help. Your daughter will be fine.

Anyway, given recent Towers correspondence I’m out of this debate before it goes further in the wrong direction.

I’m not sure you were in it in any meaningful manner, apart from to tell us GCSE maths is easy…..obviously all those that fail to get a C are lazy and spend too many fridays on the golf course with business leaders.

The cruel paradox being that atheism is a faith – in a contemporary context a faith in a technocratic era – libtarded …

Nobody said it was a faith but the views held and rights of those who choose not not worship are equal to those who do. The purpose of education is to educate, religion should be completely separate and if it were, it would not hinder the job at hand for anyone. Removing it is a no-lose AFAIAC.

The purpose of education is to educate, religion should be completely separate and if it were, it would not hinder the job at hand for anyone. Removing it is a no-lose AFAIAC.

I would not disagree with the first sentence. But I’d be surprised if the church would allow it’s land and buildings to be used if this benefit to them was removed. I know a big school around around here lay derelict and unused for a long time. My memory tells me Quakers invested in it to get it back up and running.

I think the OP has a very good case for kicking off as almost every bus in Liverpool has a poster stuck on the back for
“Our lady of pity school is better than the non faith place down the road”
“St Patrick’s academy kicks the arse of the other places”
“If your not RC your not going to get an education collage”

The cruel paradox being that atheism is a faith

Nonsense.

libtarded …

Is that a word?

Not really nonsense. You can’t say catagorically that there is no designer any more than you can say one exists without faith.
Agnostic is the only logical position that doesn’t require faith.

Not really nonsense. You can’t say catagorically that there is no designer any more than you can say one exists without faith.

Nope, it’s nonsense.

I’m surprised that you have faith based requirements for admission.

The RC school here does, but not all do. Catholic trumps active other faith, which trumps no faith. Distance is used within these groups.

‘We’ are in the second category. Three years ago our eldest wouldn’t have got in, but would have last year.

‘We’ being my wife. Me and the kids are burning in hell.

Not really nonsense. You can’t say catagorically that there is no designer any more than you can say one exists without faith.
Agnostic is the only logical position that doesn’t require faith.

You don’t know what the words atheist or agnostic mean.

You don’t have to believe in the supernatural to go to church, as OP is finding out the education and networking benefits are very real.

Or

Maths tutor

Having faith, or pretending to have faith, should not be any requirement to get a state-funded education and it is disgusting and immoral that it appears to be.

Even if there was a ‘designer’ there is no way they are any form of god-like thing that requires worship and controls our lives, and if they are then they don’t deserve worship anyway. Stephen Fry has it right.