Hat trick of good Brexit News

August Kicks Off With Brexit Good News Hat-Trick

Long queues at Passport Control are due to inadequate staffing following a tightening of EU rules.

Balanced and unbiased source there? “remainstream media” is another one for the dictionary.
That the best of the good news? Praise be its going to be a massive success.

That was rather amusing until I realised that it was trying to be serious and wasn’t something like The Mash…. How much Brexit cool-aid do you need to have drunk to read that without laughing out loud?

(Doesn’t help that it looks like the national enquirer either)

Don’t read the comments.

And may cut the border agency and passport service whilst HS resulting in delays etc.

If you want more security it means delays.

Post Brexit you can enjoy the non eu lanes at European immigration controls.

Well you are entitled to your opinion however ill-judged – would love to debate but would take too much time to pick through the flawed analogies (VZ are you kidding???) and muddled economics, so will pass instead.

But I take my hat off to your ability to completed ignore the role that the flawed fixed exchange rate had in creating the excess build up of leverage across the periphery, the inflation of bubble economies and the inability to deal with the consequences in a coherent and sensible manner. Triffling details, I know.

Do you talk to people like that in real life, THM ?

Perhaps he meant to post it in the bullshit bingo thread.

Edukator – remember several years ago THM was predicting the end of the euro and that Greece would be out of it.

Yes come and join us Ed. Real life is much better than the one you allude to.

Love LWers and pro-Europeans who are happy to ignore the loss of growth, wages, jobs, health, livelihoods that have resulted in the persistence with the flawed currency. Is this compassionate socialism or an “I’m alright jack” attitude? Either way pretty myopic and, dare I say it, distasteful. Still the Histrory of Europe is to put grand political projects ahead of the lives of – what’s the term? – real people. Who cares about the victims, eh?

Go back to what some of your heros say – Stiglitz (for our Scottish friends, remember him?) and Varoufakis for our S Euripeans – and then revert with a case for the success of the euro…Bon chance.

At least Macrom recognises the the euro is broken in its current form and is trying to do something about it. An inflexion point perhaps or merely a grand gesture. We shall see.

From the “real world”

the euro has failed to achieve either of its two principal goals of prosperity and political integration: these goals are now more distant than they were before the creation of the eurozone. Instead of peace and harmony, European countries now view each other with distrust and anger. Old stereotypes are being revived as northern Europe decries the south as lazy and unreliable, and memories of Germany’s behaviour in the world wars are invoked.

The eurozone was flawed at birth. The structure of the eurozone – the rules, regulations and institutions that govern it – is to blame for the poor performance of the region, including its multiple crises. The diversity of Europe had been its strength. But for a single currency to work over a region with enormous economic and political diversity is not easy. A single currency entails a fixed exchange rate among the countries, and a single interest rate. Even if these are set to reflect the circumstances in the majority of member countries, given the economic diversity, there needs to be an array of institutions that can help those nations for which the policies are not well suited. Europe failed to create these institutions.

Worse still, the structure of the eurozone built in certain ideas about what was required for economic success – for instance, that the central bank should focus on inflation, as opposed to the mandate of the Federal Reserve in the US, which incorporates unemployment, growth and stability. It was not simply that the eurozone was not structured to accommodate Europe’s economic diversity; it was that the structure of the eurozone, its rules and regulations, were not designed to promote growth, employment and stability…

It is perhaps natural that the eurozone’s leaders want to blame the victim – to blame the countries in recession or depression or reeling from a referendum result – for bringing about this state of affairs. They do not want to blame themselves and the great institutions that they have helped create, and which they now head. But blaming the victim will not solve the euro problem – and it is in large measure unfair.

Stiglitz 2017

THM – for the record, and I’m probably not telling you anything, LWer, pro-EU & European, but anti-euro here.

Would have loved the euro to have worked, but accept that it is flawed.

Happy with some of the integration that would make it work, but not desperate for it and also accept that certain elements oppose this and it’s unlikely to happen.

Please don’t lump all LWer, pro-EU & European types as pro-euro.

(Even if not having to change money as much is great)

Depends on your definition of left wing I guess, but please don’t lump all left wingers as being pro EU. As I said on the previous page there’s plenty of socialist MPs, Hopkins, Stringer, Hoey and even Corbyn and McDonnell who are not pro EU. Not to mention other left wing bodies, The Morning Star, British Communist Party and some of the more left wing unions including ASLEF and RMT.

Plenty of centre/left Blairite support for the EU I’m sure but it’s not a polarised left/right wing issue by any means.

I am not generalising tbc

There are LW/RW/centrists who are pro and against EU and/or pro and against the euro. That is a given. What is surprising is the number of LWers who are por a structure that in design and execution causes harm to those they claim to represent. Very odd indeed.

Nowt so queer as folk, eh?

Does it harm all/a majority/a minority? And is it actually due to the Euro or other factors such as poor government? Genuine question. My visits to Europe suggest it’s some way from collapse into total anarchy but I haven’t been to Greece in recent history…

I think you’d be hard pressed to convince a lot of those people that the EU doesn’t represent business above all else.

The outcome of the Laval Quartet cases at the ECJ has put up a serious barrier to collective bargaining and collective action.

https://www.elaweb.org.uk/resources/ela-briefing/laval-viking-line-and-limited-right-strike

I note also that London-dominated fiscal policy was widely criticised for crippling the Scottish economy back in the thatcher years but that doesn’t actually mean two currencies would have been a better solution.

Whattlier, viking & Laval were in 2007

There’s been plenty of collective bargaining & strikes since then

Unless you know of any where the ECJ has stopped them ?

The ECtHR balanced the ECJ ruling in 2010

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201107/20110718ATT24274/20110718ATT24274EN.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiuu-aj0LrVAhWpI8AKHTJ-CXwQFggqMAE&usg=AFQjCNHnlueHtxyKa9UpuCXTH9y5c9W-Aw

I’d read that report and wouldn’t say the paragraph on page 20 definitively balances the Laval case.

Besides my main point is the EU is pro business above all else including when workers disputes clash with one of the freedoms. Even one of the main directives aimed at workers has proven to be a ceiling rather than a starting point as mentioned in the report you linked.

All the things people stand up as benefits of the EU are were all intended to grease the wheels of business, free movement, the Euro even workers rights.

One of the more significant things the EU did for me – and all scientific researchers, whether they now know it or not – was abolish the repeated short-term contract situation that was commonplace in the 80s. Having also worked in a country where it was still legal (Japan) the difference in employee rights and treatment was striking.

Partridge to be the voice of Brexit

Should be excellent

I’d have thought parodying brexiteers could be quite a challenge.

Excellent!

I always thought that Farage might have been a parrody of Partridge tbh, sexist, ignorant, xenophobic, embittered, reject even has the blazer !

the problem is the brexit or nothing lot don’t get when they are the parody…

Depends on your definition of left wing I guess, but please don’t lump all left wingers as being pro EU. As I said on the previous page there’s plenty of socialist MPs, Hopkins, Stringer, Hoey and even Corbyn and McDonnell who are not pro EU. Not to mention other left wing bodies, The Morning Star, British Communist Party and some of the more left wing unions including ASLEF and RMT.

Point one:

I completely understand why right wingers would be anti-EU, after all those pesky rules and regulations stop them from selling the rest of us down the river, which is what will happen when we try and “negotiate”(it will be a bit of a one sided negotiation) with the US, China, and the EU for example.

Point two:

But while I do understand the Left wingers position, I find it bizarre. Now coming from a working class background, I do understand that they do have a bit of an issue with immigrants, and that a number of them not only want to maintain position, but drag others down to that position, but while accepting that globalisation has happened, and that by leaving the EU, you can simply just shut it away…or is it a possibility that the left hope that it will go so badly wrong that people will once again flock to their cause?

Out of both points, if we leave the EU, point one will happen.

Capitalism through globalisation is decades ahead of national Governments, and the mantra of “taking back control” is an ignorant falsehood that flies in the face of it. National Governments are no longer calling the shots, and the way to favour ourselves with globalisation, is global governance.

The EU is the beginning of such Governance. You can either be swallowed up by globalisation which is what point one will do, or continue in union with other countries to bargain collectively.

The EU is not perfect and needs reform, but it stops jamba and his kind from making a killing.

Yep I see the left position as very much wond the clocks back to when it was all great. Get rid of the multinationals and global companies and we can have it all again. Forget it the genie is out the bottle. It goes with the What has the EU ever done for us line, you know like emplyee rights, safety and the environment. Problem with that is people live too long and cause problems in health and pensions.

Hoey is not a leftie. She is another tory in the wrong party

The EU is the beginning of such Governance. You can either be swallowed up by globalisation which is what point one will do, or continue in union with other countries to bargain collectively.

The EU and its regulatory environment favours large companies, because the regulatory cost represents a high barrier to entry so the established players’ position is protected from competition. It is no surprise that organisations representing big businesses like the CBI are very pro EU whereas organisations which have a broader membership have a much more mixed position.

Likewise the smartest financiers are keen on regulation as it often generates arbitrage opportunities from which they can profit.

Nonsense, it is small and medium sized companies that don’t have the scale to satisfy 30+ different sets of standards and regulations to sell across Europe… Harmanisation of such things allows the smaller companies to sell internationally in a way they couldn’t dream of without the EU.

El bent – you completely miss the lefts dislike of the EU – is because EU positions on state subsidy and similar things would stop a left wing government from having a left wing economic and industrial strategy by nationalising industry and providing state aid to key industries

I see brexidiocy shows no signs of abating

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/leave-voters-ready-pay-to-keep-eu-citizenship-brexit-poll-lse-opinium-a7819001.html

but this is the funniest

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/03/eu-fishing-boats-can-still-operate-in-uk-waters-after-brexit-says-gove?CMP=share_btn_tw

Gove dashing around Europe offering sweeteners, because we have no leverage & desperately need a transition deal
Its almost as if the Brexiters have been bullshitting all along…

I liked this bit
“But the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the plan had always been to allow other nations some access to UK territorial waters after Brexit, and that the extent of this could now be decided by the UK.”

Kimbers – the first one, the average is 3-4 times what we were (still are) paying per head for full EU isn’t it?

this article sums up brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/b3d62bcc-7713-11e7-90c0-90a9d1bc9691

This generation of mostly former public schoolboys didn’t want Brussels running Britain. That was their caste’s prerogative.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCwcTu9U6U[/video]

Trouble is it’s not the three Muppets above chucking coal in the runaway trains boiler – it’s the Brexit voters because they “believe”

This gets funnier by the day and David Davies looks like someone picking up dog shit up with his bare hands.. I am loving it

El bent – you completely miss the lefts dislike of the EU – is because EU positions on state subsidy and similar things would stop a left wing government from having a left wing economic and industrial strategy by nationalising industry and providing state aid to key industries

How much of that is actually the EU though. Look at the development of the EU over the last couple of decades and notice how much has been the UK pushing a direction of travel. Further it has been in the interest of the UK to blame the EU.

Why are UK trains run by DB or SNCF for instance, why aren’t German railways run by virgin etc. Why is a large part of the UKs bus network also run by DB. This also applies to most of the Tory privatisations, who actually gained and what was the point.

Well yes, obviously the Tories were keen to privatise everything in sight. The red tories were obviously not intent on re-nationalisation when they scrapped clause 4 . So the direction of travel has been towards more privatisation and PFI.

What I think tjagain is referring to is any future re-nationalisation would be hampered by the EUs unfair competition regulations if and when a socialist Labour party ever gets to form a government, hence Corbyn and McDonnells anti EU position.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/rail/market_en

re-nationalisation

I wonder if it would be though, saying you can’t do something that is already replicated by others.

Unless of course Corbyn is proposing a full re-nationalisation of everything, back to the days of British Leyland and British Steel.

In which case he is an idiot.

I have sympathy with the idea of roads, rail, telecoms held within the public sector as they are core infrastructure, but commercial industries?

I think he does only mean core infrastucture. I’m pretty sure he’s not planning on going the full socialist planned economy route.

Edit – And I think the reasons for doing it would be ideological above all else.

Edit – And I think the reasons for doing it would be ideological above all else.

That is my concern, ideology has a place, so to does pragmatism.

Venezuela is not a role model for the way forward, neither is the US.