EU Referendum – are you in or out?

thecaptain – Member
ROFL. It’s not just media stories, but direct from colleagues, I’ve heard of several european scientists based in the UK looking to leave.

I know some whove already left and several not bothereing to even try renewing funding

you only have to look at the sparkly new labs unfilled at the £1bn Crick centre to see that something is wrong

there are concerted efforts to ensure that our government will fund future work but theres no doubt that the UKs reputation and confidence has taken a hit
20 years in science working with the best researchers from all over europe and the rest of the world, even during the 2008 recession when a lot of funding dried up, it was never this uncertain.

3 Strengthen the Union between the four nations of the United Kingdom

I am an Englishman (of Indian birth), in Scotland, currently finishing a Welsh beer. I have done my duty as a citizen.

mrmo – i am confident that we will end up far closer to that situation that you might think now.

Excuse me as I am 100% ignorant on the Euratom (?) thing, not my bag. But could we move to between CU and EEA – yes, quite possibly.

IGM – you dont work in LDN near Vic Gardens do you?

Nope. Castleford. Small ex-mining town on the A1-M62 junction. With an indoor ski slope.
Live in York.
Scientists with good power systems innovation ideas can form an orderly queue, but I am off to talk to American universities too as part of a UK SIN thing. Was doings bit for the Dept Int Trade folk too.
All very minor you understand.

Actually living in York and working in Cas had been interesting during the whole preamble to the Brexit debate.
You definitely got both sides which I suspect many didn’t.
That said someone once said something about the greatest argument against democracy was meeting the average voter.

Got it.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Winston Churchill

Actually living in York and working in Cas had been interesting during the whole preamble to the Brexit debate.

Like anyone in Cas actually gives a shite?

THM, hopefully you are right, we will find out long before the two years is up IMO.

Like anyone in Cas actually gives a shite?

Well they used to care enough to put the BNP posters up in their windows, but not enough to pan those windows.

UKIP came second to Yvette Cooper

And 71% cared enough to vote leave.

Red liines on both sides will be pink before not too long

We correctly frame discussions around the four current frameworks for continuing “access to” the single market at fhe moment. But in reality, I think we WILL end up with a unique deal. We shall see!!!

I still can’t grasp the fact that we’ve been in the EU for X no of years but Her Majesty’s Prison Service aquires our uniforms from China. 😯

‘Cos you can do trade outside EU even when you’re in it innit?

Sorry

Popular sovereignty > Parliamentary sovereignty

Newsnight, Prof Bognador

teamhurtmore – Member
Popular sovereignty >

is that mob rule?

Or a massive gap between Parliament and those it’s is supposed to serve ?

I do fear for what is happening, who is in charge, how facts are becoming irrelevant, how people are behaving.

Don’t you include May in that?

Actually no. As I said before, I have been surprised at how she has handled this. I was not a fan before her election and think that her track record has been poor. But On Brexshit, so far, I have been surprised on the upside.

I appreciate that I will catch some cop for that, but that is my view. I actually think that she will steer us away from the more extreme positions – perhaps having two woman at centre stage “may” be a good thing. Their egos are smaller and they do not worry about the size of their dicks.

We shall see. I “may” be wrong and her histiory pre-all this suggests that this is likely. But there we go.

Don’t you include May in that?

I think she looked dangerously naive with trump

he absolutely hung her out to dry by signing his muslim ban as she flew to meet Erdogan, a few hours before patting her hand and being chummy it all seemed like she was handling him very well.

….she looked weak and indecisive at the press conference in Turkey, refusing to condemn that ban because she knows we are desperate for a trade deal

theres no way in a million years wed be inivting trump on a state visit if brexit hadnt made us so vulnerable.

Also she was outflanked by Farage who got there first and the Gove went behind her back for his interview (ask borris what gove will do to an exposed back)

Shes got a tough job + keeping some particularly nasty Tories in check she has her work cut out for her, appointments of Johnson & Fox and to a lesser extent Davies also pointing to some questionable decision making

@5nplus8 – my point on pensions is that you cannot fix the problem with more immigrants. It wasn’t an argument against immigration. I am pro immigration but against EU freedom of movement. We need to decide how many people we want, what skills they should have etc.

Listened to quite a lot of debate speeches .. used the mute today, Milliand (tick) Osbourne (tick) Salmond (mute)

Surpised to see no commentary on Sir Ivan. Clearly a bitter man and no surprise he was fired. He’s quite right about how grumpy the EU is going to be during the negotiations, they are facing the loss of a huge part of their budget unless they can pursude the other handful of net contributors to take up the slack. France and Germany have eections and another €6-8bn between them for the EU is not a vote winner.

“Populism”

there’s no way in a million years we’d be inivting trump on a state visit if brexit hadn’t made us so pliant

Trump’s win is a big boost to us, a strongly anti-Eu pro-UK President. He will put pressure onnthe European NATO members and the eurozone via the IMF. Germany has pointed out (admitted) that unless fhe IMF approves bailout oayments the deal has to go back to EU Parliaments – Merkel has given herself the rope to hang herself and the rest with. In that sense he’s a gift.

We are not being plaint but it would be naive to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Trump’s win is a big boost to us, a strongly anti-Eu pro-UK President.

You say that because you, like post brexit britain, desperately need it to be true to justify your position

Why would a man who has built his entire campaign on putting america first suddenly be nice to us?

he played May for a fool once already, he will continue to use her to further his own position
As if the world werent already laughung at us, still it serves a s awarning to the EU 27 – if you eave youll have to deal with the likes of Trump
Not to mention the PR disaster of his Muslim visaclusterfk with Jihadis celebrating the ‘blessed ban’

Putins puppet (thats Trump not LePen or Farage) will not be good for the UK

Trump’s win is a big boost to us

You’ve got to be **** kidding.

A dangerous petulant child in charge of the US? You think that’s a good idea?

You ever think that maybe, just maybe, not everyone on the right is brilliant?

You say that because you, like post brexit britain, desperately need it to be true to justify your position

Why would a man who has built his entire campaign on putting america first suddenly be nice to us?

No need to justify anything, most things seem to have worked out “my way” in the past few years with Brexit being the most significant.

We like the US support reform of the UN and NATO members paying their 2/20. Doing bilateral trade deals with countries of similar Economic standing is a win-win and Trump sees that. He’s ok with Canada in NAFTA, its Mexico which is the issue for US jobs.

most things seem to have worked out “my way” in the past few years

Yeah, homelessness up, inequality up, NHS funding crisis, you’re **** thrilled to bits aren’t you? I cannot possibly understand how you could be so thoughtless to be pleased with how things are turning out.

inequality up

Nope

Doing bilateral trade deals with countries of similar Economic standing

Who would that be then. Not basket case Britain and the US – May begging the UK to become the 51st state of the US? You said before we don’t need trade deals – your own interests being served by going straight to WTO.

Homelessness up – well huge net migration every year is helping there I bet
NHS massively underfunded, we won’t as a country vote to fix that (note also Labour’s extra £2bn vs Tory £8bn). Also see chart I have posted before re NHS spending and fact to “standstill” it needs 4% extra pa, that’s nearly 22% each Parliament
Inequality isn’t up, its down. Also measures distorted by house prices and don’t take into account value of nhs and welfare available

My God.. no wonder you’re such a Tory. You’ve got the bluest tinted glasses in existence.

It’s all going SWIMMINGLY! YAY TORIES!

Persistantjambafact!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8bn-nhs-funding-claim-misleading-wc8sz6wls

Stop with this blatant and discredited lie. It’s even beneath you.

As if the world werent already laughung at us,

Who’s laughing at us? Not America, not China, not Russia, not any of the EU. Who’s laughing? I’m calling bullshit on that statement.

I cannot possibly understand how you could be so thoughtless to be pleased with how things are turning out.

It is down to genetics. Some people just don’t have empathy and those people would lean towards the right. Some people have stronger competition (win at all costs) and those people would lean towards the right.
This characteristics are difficult to change as they as what you are.

Probably why it is so difficult for those people that care about equality and fairness above success (whose success is again mostly gene based luck) find it impossible to work out what is going through their heads.

TJ – hate to say this but Jamba’s doing a bus on you and you’ve bitten. You can’t fight BS with facts.

Who’s laughing at us? Not America, not China, not Russia, not any of the EU. Who’s laughing? I’m calling bullshit on that statement.

And I’m calling bullshit on your bullshit. I work with people from most of those countries. If not outright laughter there’s certainly a bemused smirk whenever UK politics and Brexit is mentioned.

Who’s laughing at us? Not America, not China, not Russia, not any of the EU. Who’s laughing? I’m calling bullshit on that statement.

Most of the Europeans I work with think we are now a joke, having cut our selves off from a huge chunk of science funding,
There’s a Turkish Dr who thinks we are idiots, A Sri lankan who can’t believe we’ve done this, some poles who are quite worried more than anything else.
the American in my lab is too worried that her husband won’t be able to get medical insurance coz of his pre-exisyimg condition under trump-care when they go back.
1 ukranian who thinks we’ve been played by Putin
Chinese woman sits behind me, thinks that we are mad to throw it away
A couple of Aussies and kiwis who thought that Britain was a more tolerant place than its turned out to be…..

In my department of about 100 out of maybe 50 I know theres 1 scientist and 1 security guard who voted for Brexit.

The americans I work with laugh at us for Brexit just as we laugh at them for Trump.

jambalaya – Member
@5nplus8 – my point on pensions is that you cannot fix the problem with more immigrants. It wasn’t an argument against immigration. I am pro immigration but against EU freedom of movement. We need to decide how many people we want, what skills they should have etc.

Yes I understood what you meant, I just don’t see the logic or any evidence. Why can’t you fix it by increasing popluation? You haven’t explained it.
The way I understood it was that there is a population hole due to reduced birth rate, which is going to mean less people paying in. Either increase birth birth rate or immigration to fill it. Why doesn’t this work?

eg read this from the FT https://www.ft.com/content/49b3fcd4-63f9-11e6-a08a-c7ac04ef00aa

I am sure you have a good reason, I just want to get to the bottom of why this brexit idea works?