EU Referendum – are you in or out?

No, in my example there is no additional cost or red tape when two countries mutually waive import duties.

What about the cost of making a product to a different standard, and the cost of inspection to ensure the product meets the other countries standard? How is that paid for? And it is extra red tape in that now we have to understand a different set of rules for each target export country?
We may have to invest in additional equipment/manufacturing methods for each market place we sell in to?

Regardless of whether we’re in the EU or not, the UK has chronically poor productivity compared to other western economies as well as an acute shortage of technical skills, dominated by an ageing workforce demographic and dependence on imported skills. In many technical skills we have a structural deficit in the region of 50,000 jobs/year that can’t be filled – half of the skilled workforce in some sectors will retire in the next 10 years. We no longer have the capability to manage our own major infrastructure projects without significant numbers of highly skilled Poles, Slovaks etc. Any notion that we can simply grow our economy into highly competitive export markets is a fallacy when you don’t have the workforce to deliver it – something sadly those in Government are ignoring.

And now we’re discovering dependence, independence and interdependence.
Bit late but that’s life.

You give up your control/elements of control over the issue

Control over what issue? There’s no control given up at all.

What abiut the cost of making a product to a different standard, and the cost of inspection to ensure the product meets the other countries standard?

That’s not changed by mutually waiving tariffs.

Control over what issue? There’s no control given up at all.

Well if there is no tariff you cannot control how much comes n, it is free trade right, so they might be cheaper and sell much more into our market place than we sell out?

Control over what issue? There’s no control given up at all.

Please give us some examples then of product standards that don’t require surrendering some control.

That’s not changed by mutually waiving tariffs.

Of course it is, in the EU there is one standard, one manufacturing method for any particular product – if I am making products for many markets, just because there is no import tariff doesn’t mean I can suddenly waive the extra manufacturing cost and red tape of making a diff product and inspecting it?

FYI outofbreath, I am neutral, I just want to understand the issues, so appreciate your effort in explaining them.

Hes not explaining them, hes just saying you dont give up control with no examples

WTO ‘rules require minimum standards on labour laws
patent protection
environmental standards etc etc

Any disputes have be settled under the WTOs own set of regulations

Oh god, what have i started????

Kimbers and 5plus8, I don’t think either of you have understood my example. It was the simplest deal I could think of so I can’t make it any simpler and since I only offered it to explore if Sovereignty always had to be traded away in a trade deal, and that question has been answered to my satisfaction, there’s not much benefit in continuing down this rat hole. Sorry!

Kimbers and 5plus8, I don’t think either of you have understood my example. It was the simplest deal I could think of so I can’t make it any simpler and since I only offered it to explore if Sovereignty always had to be traded away in a trade deal, and that question has been answered to my satisfaction, there’s not much benefit in continuing down this rat hole. Sorry!

Listen I think we agree about sovereignty, I dont see the loss of sov in a trade deal either way, but I just want you to explain how making products to different standards to suit diff markets doesn’t cost more than only having to make it to a single standard. I am sure you have an explanation. Please don’t give up.

We don’t “lose” sovereignty by being in the EU, we *share* sovereignty.

To follow my marriage analogy, that is wonderfully romantic captain… 😉

Of course it costs more to produce products for different markets with different standards.
Just think of electrical products, they need different plugs, and you also need to have your instructions translated etc…

Of course it costs more to produce products for different markets with different standards.
Just think of electrical products, they need different plugs, and you also need to have your instructions translated etc…

Indeed, although the translation thing is a one off, I can see you would need an importer or agent in the target country to handle warranties etc. Many EU companies doing all that direct now. (Eg YT, Canyon etc)

Still might not be the end of the world, I just want to know why doing trade this way is better than harmonised standards, either way according to outofbreath there is no loss of sovereignty so that’s not the issue. For example he said zero tarrif = no loss of sov, that by his definition is the same as the current EU arrangement.

teamhurtmore – Member
Oh god, what have i started????

You are David Cameron and I claim my £5 €5

That’s not changed by mutually waiving tariffs.

Mutual? If you’re trading with economies much larger than yours, you take what you’re given to a large extent. Seen the tariff arrangement Switzerland negotiated with China? That’s hardly mutual, is it?

And what are we likely to get from the US? Cheap, shitty meat, whether we like it or not, and a farming industry with options: a) reduce standards or b) suffer. Hooray for control, hooray for sovereignty.

Bob Young, chief economist at the American Farm Bureau Federation, made it crystal clear that any US trade deal struck by Theresa May would be contingent on the UK public stomaching imports of US foods that it has previously rejected: beef from cattle implanted with growth hormones, chlorine-washed chicken, and unlabelled genetically modified (GM) foods.

We’ll be calling the shots alright, we’re the 7th largest economy in the world…

Whatever the arguments about health and standards, it must be noted that US meat is actually delicious.

unlike their chocolate

“Mutual? If you’re trading with economies much larger than yours, you take what you’re given to a large extent.”

See my reply to Kimbers and 5plus8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38819185

Great…………

Mutual? If you’re trading with economies much larger than yours, you take what you’re given to a large extent.”

See my reply to Kimbers and 5plus8.

What did they say about this I am confused again?

“Mutual? If you’re trading with economies much larger than yours, you take what you’re given to a large extent.”

See my reply to Kimbers and 5plus8.

Which reply about this? I cam confused.

ummm sorry…

You are David Cameron and I claim my £5 €5

I’ve already tried that, THM is a bad payer.

Nah, you just couldn’t afford my rate of interest.

Whatever the arguments about health and standards, it must be noted that US meat is actually delicious. [/I]

A bit like much processed food, just don’t look at the ingredients now method to ‘create’ it…

“Whatever the arguments about health and standards, it must be noted that US meat is actually delicious.”

The only US foodstuff I regularly buy in the UK is Californian Merlot or Cab Sauv. Seems OK to me.

teamhurtmore – Member
Nah, you just couldn’t afford my rate of interest.

Depends on the currencies involved and how fast the exchange rates move.

US cheese and butter is pretty disappointing.

Never yet seen any convincing sausages for sale.

The conditions that cattle are reared in are pretty grim.

Forget about lamb.

Anyone else seen the “he’s lying to you footage”?

😀

At what point will it dawn on Corbyn what he’s done – when the Speaker says “it’s a Govt win” maybe?

So are UKIP going to be done for fraud? Suspect it’s not a criminal charge in that sense but it would be nice to see Farage in an EU jail.

milleboy – Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38819185

Great…………

I refer you to my prediction a few pages back where I called this 🙂

the economy etc is just a smokescreen- we’re debating it here endlessly but HMG aren’t fussed- the objectives are:

-keep UKIP in check by changes to immigration
-get us out of the ECJ

….and of the two, the latter is the most important to them.

I’ve no idea

You’ve convinced me of that.

….and of the two, the latter is the most important to them.

Most important to her. Many Tory MPs have other priorities, hence May keeping them at a distance.

At what point will it dawn on Corbyn what he’s done – when the Speaker says “it’s a Govt win” maybe?

The minor parties are the opposition now.

During the debate earlier, former Chancellor George Osborne said the government had chosen “not to make the economy the priority in this negotiation, they have prioritised immigration control”, while the EU’s priority would be to “maintain the integrity of the remaining 27 members of the European Union”.

He predicted the talks with the EU would be bitter, and a trade-off between “access and money”.

Mr Osborne said he had “passionately” campaigned for a Remain vote in the EU referendum and had sacrificed his position in government for the cause.

But he said for Parliament not to allow Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to be invoked would “alienate people who already feel alienated” and could cause a “deep constitutional crisis”.

What this misses is, that parliament will “alienate people who already feel alienated” either way. The idea that all the Remain voters somehow feel they have economic stability, and control over the industries and cultures around them, is fantasy. Once A50 is triggered, a lot of alienated people will feel even more alienated, facing a future with fewer freedoms, fewer rights, and less control over their own lives.

Anyone else seen the “he’s lying to you” footage?

He’s a proper pillock. Same age as me, you’d never know by looking at us. 😛

As we’re going to be shafted by the politicians.

The SO needs a new passport, odds on it being junk in circa two years and her having to pay for a replacement. How about my driving licence, i guess that will be junk as well and i will have to pay for a new one! Couldn’t expect the Brexiters to stump up the costs for their actions.