EU Referendum – are you in or out?

I don’t think anyone is moving into your house.
Still, if that person was a surgeon, and you needed an op, you might mind less.
If your roof was falling in, and that person was a roofer, you might mind less.
The idea that “extra people” just take up room, rather than improving the country, is a popular viewpoint, for sure.

Just an anology, not against immigration whatsoever. But rather just throwing houses up wherever a green/brown site may appear, proper infrastructure needs to be factored in too. The fault of local government/planning I might add, not people wanting to move to a particular area.

because housing benefit was paying his rent.

and boom he drops the other BS line…..

But rather just throwing houses up wherever a green/brown site may appear, proper infrastructure needs to be factored in too. The fault of local government/planning I might add, not people wanting to move to a particular area.

A little common sense might be returning.

and boom he drops the other BS line…..

My sister in law works in the housing benefit department of Lincolnshire county Council, she’d open your eyes..

because housing benefit was paying his rent.
and boom he drops the other BS line…..

No, an EU worker arriving in the UK would be fully eligible for housing benefit.

Have you tried to drive through the New Forest on summers day?

I have lived in the New Forest for 16 years so have a fair idea of what it is like. It is empty compared to most places, even in summer.

I didn’t say it was improving with a rising population. I was saying that the residents have no experience of immigration yet don’t like it anyway – with no logical reasons. When discussing immigration with them the upshot is basically they don’t like immigrants because they are from another country.

No, an EU worker arriving in the UK would be fully eligible for housing benefit.

The BS is they are all claiming it, that was your point wasn’t it otherwise why bring it up? You know that EU migrants contribute higher? Draw less? etc. or do you want to try and say what you really meant.

The BS is they are all claiming it, that was your point wasn’t it otherwise why bring it up?

I didn’t say “they are all claiming it” – you were simply wrong, just be a man and admit it.

I was saying that the residents have no experience of immigration yet don’t like it anyway – with no logical reasons.

Just far do you think it is from the New Forest to Southampton (where in the 2011 census, 18% of all residents were born abroad)? And therefore on what basis do you begin to assume that the residents have “no experience of immigration” (given even the New Forest census data says 6% of the residents population was born abroad?

particularly when you found out that he was willing to do the job for less than you could afford to, because housing benefit was paying his rent.

So what did you mean? As usual it’s a little confusing

Are we ignoring the trend towards complete urbanisation of the UK? Only when we are riding urban downhill as the norm instead of rooty woodland singletrack will we wake up and realise that perpetual year on year uncontrollable population growth of a finite space is not sustainable. Much bigger issue then brexit mind, and riding on rural trails will be the least of our problems.

Are we ignoring the trend towards complete urbanisation of the UK?

Yes people won’t stop living!

I wonder how many folk complain about immigration yet squeeze out multiple children without the merest thought for the strain that puts on the environment, local resources, money etc…

Are we ignoring the trend towards complete urbanisation of the UK? Only when we are riding urban downhill as the norm instead of rooty woodland singletrack will we wake up and realise that perpetual year on year uncontrollable population growth of a finite space is not sustainable. Much bigger issue then brexit mind, and riding on rural trails will be the least of our problems. [/I]

Eh?

Try looking at Google Earth, even places you think are ‘urban’ have a far greater level of countryside than you can possibly imagine.

So what did you mean? As usual it’s a little confusing

I meant what I said, that’s why I said it, perhaps you should have read it rather than extrapolating it into something else that you thought I meant? Or perhaps you should apologise after being shown to be wrong?

I wonder how many folk complain about immigration yet squeeze out multiple children without the merest thought for the strain that puts on the environment, local resources, money etc…

Majority of UK population growth is through immigration and extended life rather than birth rates (and its suggested that much of the birth rate is from recent immigrant community too)

edit: The population increase of the UK in the year to mid-2015 included natural growth (more births than deaths) of 171,800 people, net international migration of 335,600. – source: ONS

yes you tries to extrapolate that the workers were offering a lower price due to receiving housing benefit. Again you seem to want to make that point, do you have the figures on EU migrants claiming benefit or did you read it in the mail?
Divide and conquer, part of the plan isn’t it. It’s a great one to trot out isn’t it – think it got covered over many pages. What about all those dirty locals on their benefits?

Or, You could just admit that you were wrong

About what? you were trying to make the immigrants and benefits claim again?

if that person was a surgeon, and you needed an op, you might mind less.

If your roof was falling in, and that person was a roofer, you might mind less.

The idea that “extra people” just take up room, rather than improving the country, is a popular viewpoint, for sure.

Isn’t that a better argument than name calling?

Try looking at Google Earth, even places you think are ‘urban’ have a far greater level of countryside than you can possibly imagine.

In which case it’s easy to keep everyone happy.

Change the planning process so 5 or more objections to any development or infrastructure veto it.

That way all the building will go on spare needless land that only a handful of people care about.

I wonder how many folk complain about immigration yet squeeze out multiple children without the merest thought for the strain that puts on the environment, local resources, money etc…

Good point but I think a lot of people have guilt about it. I do. The Chinese got it right, we have a lot to thank them for.

It’s weird:

You say you want less immigration people think you’re Oswold Mosely.
If you dared say you wanted a 1 child policy they’d call you Joseph Mengele.

But you say “We need a plague to wide half of us out and everyone laughs and agrees.”

People are mad.

I have lived in the New Forest for 16 years so have a fair idea of what it is like. It is empty compared to most places, even in summer.

Most places? Hong Kong?

I didn’t say it was improving with a rising population.

Good because if you had you’d have been wrong.

Are we ignoring the trend towards complete urbanisation of the UK?

+1

It’s little things that get me. You build 5000 houses. Many people have dogs. A few of those don’t clear up. Where you stick 5000 houses you not only ruin a chunk of nice Rural land but you turn the entire surrounding footpath and bridleway network into a sea of dog s**t to the point you can’t ride it at night. Yes, economically the area has become far more valuable. But a nicer place to live?

Ninfan – you true Brexy.

Very careful not to lie, while still being misleading.

There were 697,852 live births in England and Wales in 2015, an increase of 0.4% from 2014.

Source: ONS

So almost twice as many births as your immigration figure – which I accept was net, but even immigrants die so using a net figure for indigenous population growth is misleading.

You need four figures to make your point – in, out, births and deaths.

Otherwise you’re bullshitting again.

I see where this is going. igm, are you King Herod? 🙂

Certainly not.

But if ninfan et al actually want to address population growth, then instead of banning useful folk we need to work here…

Playful sarcasm mark 😉

By the way there is a good reason I didn’t answer your question in the real world. Somethings are painful even when it was for the best.

Otherwise you’re bullshitting again.

My quote:

“The population increase of the UK in the year to mid-2015 included natural growth (more births than deaths) of 171,800 people, net international migration of 335,600 “[/I]

Was a direct quote from section one of the ONS report I linked to

So, unless you are saying that the ONS are manipulating the figures to support Brexit, i suggest you owe me an apology.

Pwned

Nope I said you were being misleading and that you hadn’t lied. The quote is correct, but you are using it in a misleading context. You are therefore a bullshitter.

Certainly not.

Shame, I thought you had come up with a workable plan to control uk population based on a sound historical precedent.

How much of that net international migration was from the EU (out of interest).

How much of that net international migration was from the EU (out of interest).

About half IIRC.

Yes, it’s about 50:50

However, one of the issues is that the definition applies to anyone coming here for more than 12 months, so captures students as well as people coming to work, therefore with massively different effects workforce etc.

That’s a bit better ninfan.

By the way, how many on here regard themselves as immmigrants/emigrants/economic migrants?

I’m an economic migrant possibly an immigrant to Yorkshire.
Finished university and headed off with a suit cas in each hand, rucksack on my back and daysac on my front. Needed the job.

I have lived in the New Forest for 16 years so have a fair idea of what it is like. It is empty compared to most places, even in summer.

Most places? Hong Kong?

I didn’t say it was improving with a rising population.

Good because if you had you’d have been wrong.

Yes, of course I was referring to Hong Kong and wouldn’t be referring to other places in the UK.

And although I didn’t say it was improving, I also didn’t say it was getting worse – I made no comment on that as I don’t know.
What data are you using to determine that it is getting worse and how much has the population actually increased over the last 10 years?

(You are free to say you just made it all up)

I wonder in all this whether anyone has taken into account the probable influx of mainly elderly ex pats who are already starting to return to the UK from their previously comfortable retirements on the Cost Del Whatever? Looks very much like we will be swapping healthy working age contributors to the economy for less healthy persons with a much higher call on the welfare state…. I wonder what that will do for places to live?

All anecdotal, but I’m a regular visitor.

“By the way, how many on here regard themselves as immmigrants/emigrants/economic migrants?”

I’m also a migrant.

Me too, but only for another 8 weeks.

I still haven’t had an answer to my question. “Why and how is brexit a good idea?”
It appears neither has parliament.
I am on the fence, neutral even. I would just like to understand it?

Honest answer, ignoring the filth flying around (some of which I may have flung) –

Size of EU trading zone -v- Speed at which the UK might be able to set up UK-centric trade deals

Sovereignty -v- the stability that the EU (plus ECHR and NATO) have brought to Europe

Immigration of others -v- your right to emigrate (Auf Wiedersehen, Pet style)

Finally, club subs -v- benefits of being part of the club

There are a whole load of subsidiary issues, but where you lie on these issues pretty much leads to what you end up thinking.

For me, I don’t really value sovereignty and immigration keeps my company going. And I like not having had a war with Germany or France for 70 years as opposed to the once every 30. On trade, I think we punch above our weight as a country but not as far as people think.

People will disagree on the answers, but I think those are the questions.