EU Referendum – are you in or out?

By George, Starmer gets it

Yes, technically the referendum is not legally binding but the result was not technical – it was deeply political. And politically the notion that the referendum was merely a consultation exercise to inform parliament holds no water.

Brexit will benefit me I suspect – given I’m in an industry that relies on white collar immigrants and should survive Brexit just fine I expect to see inflationary effects raising salaries round here.

I don’t think it’s good for my children as it cuts down on their life opportunities – more difficult to work in Europe (not impossible but more difficult), less economic activity do fewer jobs and more political / international unrest.

By George, Starmer gets it

Bloody Labour Party !!!! 😉

Now then in to the next stage.

Trump is a bit easy to wind up. So if we all get together and start winding him up (I don’t know, petions saying he’s not a nice man that sort of thing) it drives a wedge between the UK and US and turns us back towards Europe.

Most folk wouldn’t care but Trump does come across as the sort of primadonna who does.

Like THM says the negotiations start now so let’s tilt the pitch. 😉

trouble is the negotiations do not start now. they don’t start with th rest of the EU until we trigger article 50 and no trade deals with the rest of the world can start until we have left the EU unless we get permission from the EU – as all EU states have a legal obligation not to make unilateral agreements and we are still an EU state at the moment

mefty unfortunately Starmer does not get it at all and he is wrong. the referendum did not put any obligation on parliament and especially not on the labour party – thats just a bunch of weasel words he is using to try to justify the stupid position labour are in.

“mefty unfortunately Starmer does not get it at all and he is wrong. the referendum did not put any obligation on parliament and especially not on the labour party”

+1

I think what really wound people up about the whinging Brexies, is there was a huge vote in which the UK as a whole said in balance we’re a little bit more out than in.

If the will of the people had been reflected then a deal that was a little bit more out than in might have been acceptable – but oh no say the whingers, we have to leave everything including things that weren’t EU in the first place.

Well in that case, I am going to be equally unreasonable. And while I’m often a really nice guy, I have patience, a long memory and I’m creative in how I get my own back.

no trade deals with the rest of the world can start until we have left the EU unless we get permission from the EU

What they gonna do? Kick us out?

Academic since trade deals aren’t essential and you really want to agree one you can just call your negotiations something else (pre-negotiation talks?) and rubber stamp them on the day of leaving.

mefty unfortunately Starmer does not get it at all and he is wrong

The fact you disagree with it is a pretty sure sign he got it right.

Mefty – its a position with no logical rationale thats why its wrong.

It’s about having a say/more control over our future

In exchange for less say/control in our biggest single market.

Well in that case, I am going to be equally unreasonable

I feel a bit that way too. I’m not willing to accept “you lost get over it and move on”. I will continue whinging and whining (probably to no end but I don’t care).

Outofbreath – pissing off the EU even more at this point would be really useful wouldn’t it? Plus I am sure there will be sanctions available

pissing off the EU even more at this point would be really useful wouldn’t it?

I don’t think it matters.

They have to strike the balance between making this as painful as they can for us whilst not damaging their own interests too much.

How much they like us is irrelevant, if they do us a favour then other nations will think it’s a good wheeze and leave.

Mefty – its a position with no logical rationale thats why its wrong.

There is a difference between no logic and logic you don’t agree with, I don’t hold out any hope that you will understand that. It’s just good to be reminded why I didn’t bother renewing my sub.

I’d say May’s fawning over Trump, holding his wee hand, pimping out the Queen etc is doing a pretty good job of showing other nations what fate awaits them if they leave.

The more desperate we look, maybe the more they’ll pity us and offer a good deal?

Also trump’s next policy pledge is his trade war with China, as well as dividing on their south China sea plans, will we back him then as well , do we need trade with China more, I suspect that our foreign policy will be dictated entirely by who we can get a Daily Mail friendly trade deal with.

The fact you disagree with it is a pretty sure sign he got it right.

😀

mefty – go on then – explain the logic behind it in a rational way that shows its just not weasel words to try to justify the odd stance the labour party are taking on this

Morgan v Gove v Soubry!!!

Soubry coming a clear third so far!

It’s about having a say/more control over our future

In exchange for less say/control in our biggest single market.

excuse me slowoldman, i was having a bit of fun there, only semi-serious and not in the sense you took it 😉

mefty – go on then – explain the logic behind it in a rational way that shows its just not weasel words to try to justify the odd stance the labour party are taking on this

Futility
BY WILFRED OWEN
Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds—
Woke once the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides
Full-nerved, still warm, too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?

Is that about Brexy voters Mefty?

Plenty of them shuffling off their mortal coils soon.

Is it odd though? Are they not following the opinion polls and what they perceive to be the nations wishes?

There was once a mandate a politician stood on that said “no tuition fees” – ouch Clegg takes one in the bollix

In other news a Professor and one of Trump’s advisors correctly points out what we all know that the euro creates an artificially low currency for Germany and the ECB manages it for their benefit. Merkel denies it of course. Tusk has gone full Armageddon and said Trump is a threat to the EU as mixh as Russia or China. Clear attempt at EU project fear – you must tow the line my servants

There was once a mandate a politician stood on that said “no tuition fees” – ouch Clegg takes one in the bollix

And the LibDems were destroyed at the next general election.
Isn’t democracy great.
Now, let’s see if the exit deal we get is anything like those suggested during the campaign, and then vote on it.

Tusk has gone full Armageddon and said Trump is a threat to the EU as mixh as Russia or China. Clear attempt at EU project fear – you must tow the line my servants

Have you not being paying attention? Trump and the man who is most likely to be the next USA embasador to the EU have been talking this up all by themselves. We can ignore it all as bluster if we want, but the last week suggests that it might be wise to listen.

Yes, Jambas, but follow the logic there. If correct and the Germans have created a monster that creates unsustainable surpluses, then they need to understand that these surpluses have to be recycled otherwise no one will be left to feed the monster that they created.

They are as guilty as the PIIGS for the demise of the EZ – in fact probably more, because they have the audacity to charge the PIIGS with addressing unilateraly, when they are equally to blame.

TJ mefty was correct, Stamer gets it.

It’s politics and nothing else, and the reason (as I’ve said previously on this post) that May is pushing it as she is, ‘cos she’s a politician and had now the top job, and intends to keep it irrelevant of the outcome.

Isn’t democracy great.

only if the result goes your way, apparently

Out of adversity….So Stamer, articulate, a lawyer, not associated with he-who-was-very-successful-but-cannot-be named….is this a new leader in the making?

Whoa we have a new entry in the most deluded brexie in the commons league table

the 23 June last year will be remembered as a great day in history. It is comparable with Agincourt and Waterloo,
All MPs are doing is implementing the glorious decision taken by the public in the referendum

And with that rees- mogg flies to the top position

What can IDS pull out of the bag to regain his place?

The only In Deep Shit quotes I have seen have been distressing moderate.
He’s up to something.

And with that rees- mogg flies to the top position
What can IDS pull out of the bag to regain his place?

Trafalgar?

Starmer is saying what he thinks people want to hear – not what he thinks is right and it has no logic behind it bar electoral calculation.

I* understand why he has adopted this position but to claim its logical in any sense is just wrong. It doesn’t even make sense FFS

Lets see then

“This is obviously a difficult decision,” he said.

A good start – tick

“I wish the result had gone the other way. I campaigned passionately for that.

Good middle – tick

But as democrats our party has to accept that result and it follows that the prime minister should not be blocked from starting the Article 50 negotiations.”

Logical finish and makes sense – tick.

Yep, I think that is what people might well want to hear. Democracy at work – tick

Will it help their election chances – who knows? But better than relying on the old bloke who seems to have gone awol.

only if the result goes your way, apparently

🙂

Been watching the commons all day

My hatred for the Tories cannot be expressed strongly enough. Smug, elitist arseholes.

We need a modern day guy fawkes more than ever 😐

an attempted murderer?

Murderer – possibly. Like that Brexy in Leeds.

Oh sorry, attempted murder. Like that Brexy that got done last week – or was he just a fantastist

David Lammy currently telling it like it is. Best I’ve heard all day.

It was a tongue in cheek comment that our crop of politicians are crap!

Agreed and understood Bob.

I was merely pointing out to all and sundry that the Brexies have already resorted to murder.
Although I am not condoning the “well they started it” defence.