EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Relax. They are the starting point. I almost wrote pink lines. Why? Because the safest bet of all it that there will be compromises on both sides.

Remember this is a NEGOTIATION

Do you think May will now budge on either of those issues?

thm, how are we (to be clear, the whole electorate) supposed to influence these negotiations? We elected a conservative govt that promised to keep us in the single market, and now they’ve apparently changed their mind along with their leader. How is this democratic?

i think its the bit where we all voted and the majority said leave bit that makes it the government of the people / democratic.

What I think is undemocratic is the way they /she has drawn up some lines in the sand [ immigration for example] as if it was actually a vote on this
People voted leave for a myriad of reasons from save the NHS, regain control, stop immigration, dislike of Europe there is no clear mandate to any approach and that is why she will always get criticism whatever she does- with the usual sniping from anti tory eu lovers.

Do you think May will now budge on either of those issues?

Well I suppose if there is going to be negotiation there has to be movement. Perhaps she has something else to go soft on in order to retain these two. Or not.

This is a good old fashioned kick in the bollix. From the likely American Ambasador to the EU. I’m clearly far too soft on Junker and the EU, just brilliant. BBC’s This Week

Andrew Neill. “I mean you’re clearly not a great fan of Brussels or these bureaucrats like [European Commission President] Juncker,”

Prof Malloch. “Well, I had in a previous career a diplomatic post where I helped to bring down the Soviet Union, so maybe there’s another union that needs a little taming,”

“What do you think of Mr Junker ?”

“Well Mr Junker was I think a very adequate Mayor of some city in Luxembourg, maybe he should go back there and that again”

“He [President Trump] doesn’t like an organisation that is supranational, that is unelected, where the bureaucrats run amok, and is not frankly a proper democracy,” Prof. Malloch said.

Nige’s Twitter has the clip. Priceless. 😀 😀 😀

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/824996652637237248

This Week Facebook, short general piece inc referemce to France, Germany and Luxembourg amongst other having to pay their way in NATO. Classic Cadillac on London’s streets

Programme link on iPlayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08c38fy/this-week-26012017

So desperate to see the EU fail you are cheering on one of Trumps swamp things

Classy!

And another one. the idiots in charge want to leave the European medicines agency thus increasing costs to get new drugs approved in the UK and delaying their implementation

Its currently based in London but of course it will have to move elsewhere. HUnt wants us to leave the organisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/28/quitting-eu-regulator-would-leave-uk-waiting-longer-for-new-drugs

Andrew Neill? That well known bastion of sensibility?

Kimber the EU is doing just fine in failing of it’s own accord. It needs to go back to an Economic Community amd ditch the political side totally.

“HUnt wants us to leave the organisation.”

Cite!

Mind you , the way T May is acting with Trump , I think the EU is better off without the UK .

The UK would certainly be better off without May…

obviously .

Kelvin, yes, I would bet the house in it. I might have said this before, it’s a negotiation.

Cpn, it’s frankly absurd for the public to think that they should or even that they are able to influence the nuances of the negotiations. These will take place between a very, very small number of people accompanied by a wider show for the public that will be there simply to feed the media. Both sides will also employ sophisticate strategic communications teams to manipulate the message. So the public have done their bit – they have committed us to a bad move. The experts will now take over to limit the damage.

The government wanted us to remain in the single market, trrue. What they committed to, however, was to hold a referendum on the issue and to execute whateve result was delivered. This is what they are doing as promised. For some, the burden of following this promise is clearly too much to bear. We expect this from Scottish nats, but others should know better.

Trump has already used and cast aside May, he shafted her as she flew to meet Erdogan with his Muslim ban.
You can watch trump dismiss her here
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154488593181939/

As May tours the world looking to pick up any scraps she can from whatever the world’s finest and most progressive 😉 leaders will toss her way, I wonder if the poisoned chalice of Brexit is starting to taste rather bitter?

Prof Brian Cox on leaving euratom
“I’m trying to use temperate language, so here goes: Terrifically stupid, utterly shitheaded, myopically parochial idiocy. Pointless damage”

*applauds*

The UK would certainly be better off without May

Not what the opinion polls say

TJ we just signed up to European patents office, no reason a relationship with euratom isn’t possible as it remains a seperate Treaty (just managed by the EU). I’ll wager you our Nuclear programme will carry on just fine. Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build. Although I imagine all the Remainer anti-nukes are a bit conflicted as the slower things go the better for them, they must be hoping it falls apart.

@kimbers really 😯 he was making a joke, I watched the whole press conference he could not have been more “on script” he read his statement word for word. Like it or not he’s the “leader of the free world” and he’s pro UK, pro-Brexit and anti-EU … all very good things for the UK right now

kimbers – Member
You can watch trump dismiss her here
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10154488593181939/

I guess you aren’t even aware your blinkers seriously skew your judgement? Dismiss? 😆

Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build

im off to bed its got silly in here!

Prof Brian Cox on leaving euratom
“I’m trying to use temperate language, so here goes: Terrifically stupid, utterly shitheaded, myopically parochial idiocy. Pointless damage”

Prof Brian Cox on Brexit:

“Things can only get better, Can only get better if we see it through”

Jamba – really? You can’t see the difference between making electricity and killing people? Are you sure?

Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build.

Ah well. I learn something new about people every day.

Jamba – I am laughing at the stupidity of you and those who think like you and pointing out the utterly ridiculous idiocy of the leavers actions – talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Even if youaccept a need to leave the EU there is no need at all to leave either euratom or EMA but the deluded leavers are going to do both. Why ? what possible advantage could leaving either have?

Jamba – I am laughing at the stupidity of you and those who think like you and pointing out the utterly ridiculous idiocy of the leavers actions –

Dont worry he is still laughing cause he won, he has no idea what he had won but its OK he won….
The eu is able to stand equal with the US and go toe to toe with them on negotiation, that is what Trump hates, that is what he is afraid of. The eu has a great place in the modern world.

jambalaya – Member

Fairly amusing to see an anti-Trident supporter wanting to make Nuclear power stations easier to build.

I’m sure you do have a reason for finding that amusing… but I’m also sure it’s completely stupid.

“The eu is able to stand equal with the US and go toe to toe with them on negotiation that is what Trump hates”

I thought a massive issue Trump feels personally strongly about and was elected on was unequal trade deals. Where they do a deal with an economic weakling and then end up effectively exporting jobs to that place.

That wouldn’t be an economic weakling then really would it. By definition.

“That wouldn’t be an economic weakling then really would it. By definition.”

Good point, in one sense being a piss poor low wage economy gives you immense strength, but whether you call Mexico weak or strong Trump doesn’t want deals with those kind of places, he wants deals with fairly equal nations. Which was my point.

Sounds great on paper doesn’t it, like the way Trump relies heavily on imported goods for his own businesses. Mexico is (well he thought it was) a soft target. As the Germans pointed out we don’t buy your cars because hey are crap.
He will find it hard to deliver a killer deal for the US with the eu, he has nothing really to offer. The eu won’t move on food etc. Tech is easy, Europe has great car production, access to natural resources etc. then he will start and get a hard time over Russia and Nato.

Mike, why wouldn’t Jambas be laughing, especially when he sees the kind of contribuition (sic) that you quoted?

Interesting.

Someone once built a Keynesian economic model out of plumbing.
I was wondering this morning if you could build a 4 freedoms style trade model out of simple electrical components – potential difference for affluence , resistance for barriers / tariffs, current gives you the flow of people, goods etc, with inductors and capacitors for delays and saturation effects.
I’m not sure if you can (though my suspicion is yes it’s possible) but just thinking about it that way starts to through a bit of light in rich / poor trade deals,why the EU is probably a good idea, and migrant flows around the world.
It is just a different way of describing the same maths I suspect.

PS might need to be an AC model to do exchange rates, but that might prevent the proper modelling of education on the economy.

Not really a Kenynsian model, rather a brilliant model (LSE IIRC) for explaining flows in an economy and what happens when you turn of valves but increase the pressure eg, the folly that is the €

The model would be better suited for explains the EZ problem where surpluses are not recycled properly. They lead to a build up of pressure without the appropriate release valves being open. Hence in the end the pipes burst.

Edit, here you go

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC

Trouble with all models (especially economic models) is that they are basically shit. Yes they can describe events on a macro level, things like supply and demand etc, but will always fail to incorporate micro effects and feedback loops which are extremely important in the longer term. Things like social upheaval, environmental degradation, even climate change and how that effects the model.

Probably the most complex models in use today are to predict the weather and even they can only accurately forecast a day or so at most before some unforeseen factor causes the model to fail

Except in this case the model was all about feedback loops. So your argument falls at the first hurdle.

Yeah but I bet they didn’t include them all, or the feedback loops on the feedback loops etc…. 🙂

Of course not, they are models 😉

You are criticising models because they are models which seems a bit odd to me.

Thank you THM. You have refreshed this engineer’s vague recollection.

Anyway I suspect if you got a decent power systems load flow modeller and a decent economist together you could do something even better.