EU Referendum – are you in or out?

No comment on this from the anti EU lot or the pro nukes lot?

I think that’s a pretty small subset. Personally I don’t care. Seems to me another “could” or “may” type scenario. Maybe, maybe not.

jambalaya – Member
In other news Merkel has supposedly made a number of approaches to sugget she visits Washington.

Self invitation I see. 😆

Trump’s team have not even replied, thus likely first meeting at G7 in May or G20 in July which Germany are hosting. Far from calming his rhetoric on Germany post his victory he reiterated his view on the folly of Germany accepting 1m people about whom they knew very little. The pressure is mounting.

It looks like they might go to the back of the queue … 😛

tjagain – Member
No comment on this from the anti EU lot or the pro nukes lot?

Who else can build nuke plant(s)?

you mean a bit like your IMO , I think , etc…. 😉

car makers investment in the UK has dropped by millions post Brexit vote .

and to rely on Trump post Brexit is insane .

cchris2lou – Member
you mean a bit like your IMO , I think , etc….

I is the furniture. 😆

car makers investment in the UK has dropped by millions post Brexit vote .

Everyone is jockeying for position in the car market so what’s new? The question is who will make the first big move.

and to rely on Trump post Brexit is insane .

I think you will find that in reality many people in this world might have to rely on President Trump. All USA got to do is withdraw from NATO and UN; and you shall see full impact of that all over the world. 😯 … Including France …

I disagree lots with thm, but there’s no contradiction in his stance. He’s just for making the best of a shite situation. something the hysterical left are having no input on whatsoever.

I love you too Joe!

But “disagree lots” really???? 😉

I always thought May a good politician but she is proving me wrong continually. Her handling of europe is so poor its laughable. Its almost as if she wants us to fail in leaving so we end up staying. She has got so many things so wrong its no longer funny

The lack of specifics is telling. I always thought she was a disappointing politician with a porr track record on delivery. However, considering she doesn’t believe in Brexshit, her performance is remarkable (so far). She will trigger A50 on time despite a largely pre-remain HoC and HoL, she has laid out her plans clearly (for those who can be bothered to read) and we know where we start (between CU and FTA) and where the likely compromises are. The early dynamics with Barnier and Merkel are positive.

Meanwhile Labour are lost, the SNP still talk illogical shite and only the LDems show some conviction. Who are the good politicians????

We “May” even get a elusive win:win from a lose:lose situation.

Keep on it old girl – you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!

teamhurtmore – Member
… only the LDems show some conviction.

Whaaaatt! That shouty shouty yelling young chap? 😆

teamhurtmore – Member

I love you too Joe!steady on there big boy! 😆

Keep on it old girl – you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!

You seriously need to stop drinking.

I always thought she was a disappointing politician with a porr track record on delivery. However, considering she doesn’t believe in Brexshit, her performance is remarkable (so far). She will trigger A50 on time despite a largely pre-remain HoC and HoL, she has laid out her plans clearly (for those who can be bothered to read) and we know where we start (between CU and FTA) and where the likely compromises are.

So basically she is showing strong leadership.

So did Lord Cardigan, still didn’t turn out well.

If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there’ll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States. And Trump won’t have to work too hard on his isolationist policies then.

I wonder where we’d be best to be then.

The 20th century was characterised by the rise of Russia and the US. Perhaps the 21st will be characterised by their decline. It’s certainly starting to feel like geopolitics is changing and we just backed the wrong horse.

I disagree lots with thm, but there’s no contradiction in his stance. He’s just for making the best of a shite situation. something the hysterical left are having no input on whatsoever.

Making the best of a bad situation would be strongly advocating that the result of this advisory referendum, with no more legal weight than a Big Brither vote, should be debated strongly in parliament to win a majority for ignoring its results, and changing the law so that such a dishonest and deceitful campaign would be highly illegal in future.

Who else can build nuke plant(s)?

Well, not us any more, hence why we’re getting the French to do it. Or we were…

I hear the Russians have a design that’s only blown up once.

The Americans are working on a 10 – 50 MW modular design I think.
But they have been for quite some time.

Reactors – Westinghouse or the French being the only 2 with an approved design from memory. You can’t build one that isn’t an approved design so no point trying.
And on the momentus state visit the alternative prespective
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/never-mind-the-optics-theresa-mays-us-dash-was-mortifying

ignoring its results

Enough said. What an argument?? 😯

and changing the law so that such a dishonest and deceitful campaign would be highly illegal in fun

You had better give the SNP plenty of advance but warning. That’s a paradigm shift for them

The euratom point gbeing that we cannot build reactors while we are not in euroatom ( or at least one with french input) so unless agreement is reached with euratom all work on hinkley will have to stop.

Did somone say “she has laid out her plans clearly” (May) – the levels of delusion go up and up. She clearly has no proper plan – just a wish list that included the common delusions of the leavers.

oldman can you help me out with this ?

Jamba I wonder if you can see the irony

Head…,sand

TJ the key thing about May is, like any politician, you’ve only to appeal to your voters. And they are the ones that keep you in power.

So this is her entire strategy. And a plan? That’s been made up on the hoof, which is why she appealed the court case (gave breathing space).

And is their approach the right one, it’s the only one – although personally I believe leaving is crackers and will cripple the UK for at least a generation.

Took me a while to see “Brexit” on the beast’s jacket. My first assumption was Trump.

She is taking a hell of a gamble with our futures.

On Euratom – this looks like a complete lack of understanding by the press. The only new development they are involved in is with the ITER project which, if we leave, really will be the final nail on our nuclear industry. This is madness, for the money we are contributing we are getting a complete bargain on crowdsourcing a workable fusion reactor.

As for what is allowed to he built here, the Westinghouse PWR GDA even being valid after 30odd years is unlikely. We have a GDA for the EPR, ABWR should have been completed last year and the AP1000 will be done shortly. As far as I know the Euratom agreement has nothing to do with export controls so don’t understand why people think it would have any bearing on this generation of new build.

Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there’ll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States

Can see this happening. As Trump gets more and more deluded and power crazed and manages to annoy all other countries he won’t have anyone left who wants to touch him and the rest of the world will get on with it together.

I think this is nearer the mark…

igm what’s clear is that the EU aren’t going to do anything quickly, it’s a protectionist trade block which sustained itself via expansion. That’s been dealt a shocking blow. The EU will do nothing to upset Trump as they well know the US holds all the cards in terms of financial muscle and the eurozone is bust.

IMO the EU is going to try and sit tight and hold on till 2020 in the hope Trump is a one term President. It’s going to get more internally focused.

Keep on it old girl – you are doing much better than expected and better than you track record would suggest. Bravo!

Yep – plenty more dictators still left to grovel before. Who’s next?

Think of how much we can sell to North Korea! A beautiful future awaits.

igm – Member
If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there’ll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States

This is a first, but I think I’m with chewkw 😆 , but why would the EU do a deal with China? Essentially allowing them to dump all of their cheap stuff, en masse even more than they already can, on Europe?

Seems a bit mental to allow that via free trade agreements?

What do the Europeans have that the Chinese want to buy?

Seems to me that is only ever going to be a one sided deal.

igm – Member
If as Jamba says Trump keeps trying to marginalise Germany, there’ll suddenly be an EU Pacific and/or EU/China trade deal done that specifically marginalises the States.

EU can have free trade with China if they want and turn themselves into service economic. Might as well outsource their car industry to China since China can learn that overnight, EU can do all the designing work etc … 😆

And Trump won’t have to work too hard on his isolationist policies then.

That will suit everyone nicely.

I wonder where we’d be best to be then.

UK can deal with the one they wish and refuse the one they don’t without having EU bureaucrats to tell them what can or cannot.

The 20th century was characterised by the rise of Russia and the US. Perhaps the 21st will be characterised by their decline. It’s certainly starting to feel like geopolitics is changing and we just backed the wrong horse.

20the century is the time for adjustment, 21st century will continue to realise that but life will be much better as everyone will keep to themselves.

Which dictators has she grovelled to so far?

teamhurtmore – Member
Which dictators has she grovelled to so far?

Actually dictators are much easier to deal with since she only needs to deal with one person.

Is Erdogan a dictator?
That discussion could go on for days…

Not in Turkey though 😉

What do the Chinese want? You mean besides luxury goods (cars, watches etc.), intellectual property (reactor designs, other tech), export licences (again, reactors etc.). Not much I suppose…

So since Theresa has no plan, we could imagine what one might look like hypothetically:

Lets start with an overall vision, err…….We will leave the European Union (giving up ‘membership’ of the single market in the process)?

Then, how about a tighter definition of strategic focus, err….We will negotiate a bespoke deal to ensure “access to” the single market rather than adopt one of the pre-exisiting frameworks?

What might this look like (hypothetically), err….somewhere between access via the CU and via a FTA?

What is the timetable, err….how about serve notice by 3/17, complete negotiations by 3/19, agree transition period (tbc) to allow for successful implementation?

Starting red lines, err: FoM and jurisdiction of ECJ for starters?

Other guidelines for negotiations, err….12 a good round number again for starters?

I wonder what a plan might also smell and sound like?

“Quack, quack”

since China can learn that overnight

A first for me too (agreeing with chewkw that is).
Apart from fast learners, China is prepared to invest heavily in its manufacturing. Anyone who dismisses China as a manufacturer of cheap, low cost copies these days is an idiot.

I’m beginning to think that all of the economic and social arguments: the impending collapse of the Euro, the golden vista of better trade deals elsewhere, the relative stagnation of the european economy, the damaging effects of freedom of movement……

…..are really just clever ruses to get us out of the ECJ. That there’s nothing else planned, that this is the entirety of the planning needed as nothing else matters. While we’re all sitting here debating the relative merits of one trade deal over another, wasting our time, the government gets on with what its really after.

Cool huh?

^^^^^^^ Dunno I have a feeling that it’s grab personal opportunity and run with it, I think thru personal wealth and connection the people deciding what’s good for ‘us’ aren’t going to suffer and regardless of how it goes will do just nicely.

I Would like to table amendment to the bill anyway that anyonethat uses the phrase ‘The will of the people’ is transported to America and put to work on the wall for life 🙂

Starting red lines, err: FoM and jurisdiction of ECJ for starters?

Yup, these have been May’s red lines all along, from before the Referendum, and severely limit the deal that we can achieve. Why should the whole country get a worse deal because of May’s personal red lines? They weren’t in the Referendum. They weren’t in her party’s manifesto. Her party wasn’t elected to power with her and her red lines leading it. Where is the democratic accountability? Where is her mandate to restrict our futures in this way?

The fact that she has to stress these red lines is a reminder there is a different way to Leave the EU. A way that keeps closer trading arrangements, and keeps better opportunities for companies and citizens a like, if those (her) red lines are removed before negotiations get under way.

Lots of Tory MPs are worried about this as well, even some who voted to Leave. One Leave voting MP has already resigned because of the path May is heading. It is why she is keeping proper scrutiny away from parliament. She has no fear about the “opposition”, it is Tory MPs who don’t share her red lines that she is afraid of.