EU Referendum – are you in or out?

As British laws will be made by British Parliament a future PM could change them as they and Parliament wish

See, that worries me.

As for May having been influenced by Fox etc’s hard-Brexit I suggest the reality is she and the Government have looked at all the various options and have come to the conclusion that their approach is the bst way forward.

Given the incredibly stupid things this government and the last have got up to, that means pretty much nothing. They’ve shown how stupid they are, or how they are playing political games rather than facing up to their own shitstorm.

Given the incredibly stupid things in Fox’s recent speech its absolutely apparent that hes playing his own game of fantasy Brexit and will be sacked/resign again when the shitstorm does hit

From private eye

we are a founding member and major supporter of the International Criminal Court if people think we’ve done something wrong and the UK courts have not found in their favour they can take action against us there.

Eh?

“The International Criminal Court (ICC) investigates and, where warranted, tries individuals charged with the gravest crimes of concern to the international community: genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.” (Sauce: the ICC)

Not exactly the right place to take individual human rights abuses to eh?

We are also founding members and major supporters of European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights, which IS intended for such cases.

The scaremongering about Human Rights and Employment Laws where just that, Referendum scaremongering.

Our participation in the ECHR is independent from our membership of the EU. The referendum wasn’t about leaving the convention, much as it might suit some to pretend that it was.

As long as I can remember the investment strategy of the UK has been to attract foreign investment with the knowledge that those companies will make use of our more flexible working conditions but with easy acces to the EU.

I did a bit of googling on the subject a the U.K. does currently get the biggest % of foreign direct investment.

Now what’s the plan?

Businesses don’t just invest here for easy access to the EU though. They also invest here because (to name but a few):

– we have relatively low (and predictable) rates of corporation tax
– significant depth of expertise in law
– creative (sometimes too much so) and accessible finance / capital markets
– We have one of the world’s largest stock markets and insurance markets

Anyone who has tried to set up a company in the eurozone will know how hard / bureaucratic the process can be compared to the UK.

@Nipper just saw your question about the Human Rights Act. We will have our own Human Rights Acts overseen by our court system. As we are a founding member and major supporter of the International Criminal Court if people think we’ve done something wrong and the UK courts have not found in their favour they can take action against us there.

Jambalya, now you really are talking rubbish. The thing with Human Rights is their universality and as such there is an importance in having a supranational tribunal to clarify and determine where breaches have occurred. I can refer you to the history and case law on Section 10 of the Contempt of Court as an example of an executive leaning British judiciary. The Human Rights Act is our act incorporating the convention directly into UK law so that it is applied directly in this country which is was not before 2000. Human rights are too important to be left to politicians, they serve to protect us from them and from the likes of you.

Human rights are quite often misunderstood by the more rapacious members of our society such as yourself and you would be well served by reading “A Paradigm of Philosophy: Hohfeld on Legal Rights” if you are remotely interested.

I’m not sure what human rights you think are less important and which are not dealt with by the ECHR or which you would like to do away with; I suspect your reasoning will be about not be able to deport foreigners and immigrants – I fully expect your response to begin with ‘I’m not a racist but….’

Evan Putin’s Russia is a signatory to the ECHR!

Meanwhile more cheery reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/01/gates-closing-tensions-rising-brexit-feels-tangible-and-frightening?CMP=fb_gu

Anyone who has tried to set up a company in the eurozone will know how hard / bureaucratic the process can be compared to the UK.

So despite all the mumbo jumbo about ‘sovereignty’ and ‘regulations’, we’ve actually got it pretty good?

I’m still waiting for the referendum on a Free Yorkshire. If it’s not free then it better be cheap.

Businesses don’t just invest here for easy access to the EU though.

It’s a big factor though. One that we’ve just voluntarily given up. Based on the opinion of people who can’t tell a Syrian refugee from an EU migrant or an Asian immigrant.

So despite all the mumbo jumbo about ‘sovereignty’ and ‘regulations’, we’ve actually got it pretty good?

Had it (about as good as it gets)

Threw it away (to pander to the xenophobes)

Will suffer as a result (self-inflicted pain)

Madness

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

lolz

I hope you’re not suggesting that JClarkson should be in charge Moly.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-justice-european-union-boris-johnson-2016-9
Better watch out Jamba!

:lol:

@Nipper well we are going to see what happens aren’t we, we will be having our own Human Rights Bill overseen by our own courts. In 5 or 10 years we can review what happened. By the way you cannot forgive me enjoying every single minute of our exit from the EU, it was something I thought would never happen, to be given a Referendum, to win it against all the establishment odds and then to see what for me is the best solution a hard Brexit delivered cleanly and quickly.

Europe is in desperate trouble financially, really desperate. Hungary just voted 98% to reject just 1000+ refugees, Austria will re-run it’s Presidential Election, Marine Le-Penn could win in France and has certainly changed the landscape. Holland next ? The EU and Junker have had their heads in the sand and pressed on with the political project against the wishes of so many of Europeans. They are the architects of their own downfall.

Better watch out Jamba!

:)

Bring it on, they need £2m they have £145k. I won’t be losing any sleep over it and they won’t win a court case. Not a snowballs. Great work for them though if they can get it, £2m to trouser. Why don’t you give them my contact details or maybe start your own prosecution against me ?

@tmh if you keep looking backwards you are going to turn into a 1970’s relic like the Labour Party 8)

Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Third option – Try to steer the entire tanker away from the rocks before it’s too late. There seems to be lots of support for this option too.

Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

I see the best way is to skip over inconvenient issues tell every one to keep smiling and make idiotic plans like tear it all up that will teach them…

Also option 3 is still on the table, legally so for the commons to vote against the declaration of article 50, damm process. Sort of thing that I guess people want rid off. The PM and cabinet need to present a case to parliament that shows they have a good enough plan to make it work. Nothing to date shows that.
With a strong shift in public opinion possible how many mps could disobey?

Also a minor point can you find people moaning about losing a vote or just asking the sort of difficult questions people seem to want to avoid?

By the way you cannot forgive me enjoying every single minute of our exit from the EU, it was something I thought would never happen, to be given a Referendum, to win it against all the establishment odds and then to see what for me is the best solution a hard Brexit delivered cleanly and quickly.

Think that sums it up really but I’ll behave and not melt the swear filter.

Peyote – Member
Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum
Third option – Try to steer the entire tanker away from the rocks before it’s too late. There seems to be lots of support for this option too.

tbh you’re pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I’m thinking **** it, let’s get on with it.

I also think making current EU just part for existing UK law and dealing with it down the line seems a pretty smart one, least on the face of it. should minimize legal disruption so they can concentrate on trade and let parliament deal with the laws as and when.

Jamba – that’s a bit bleak. Do you not have any appealing choices to offer. I’m not accepting either of those ones.

I’m also going with making up my little list of quitter businesses that I’ll never let have any of my cash again if I can help it. I’m not supporting folk who try to wreck my country. If Rosscore wants to forward me his business details I’ll add him to the list. Same for you Jamba.

we will be having our own Human Rights Bill overseen by our own courts

Great! So when our own establishment violates our human rights we will be able to take the case directly to our own establishment and ask them to rule against themselves.

I’m sure that will work out much better than being able to take the case to an independent international court specialising in human rights law.

tbh you’re pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I’m thinking **** it, let’s get on with it.

You could be right, but I’ve always been an optimist rather than a realist :-)

– to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

Yeah we’ll all have to make the best of out of it as we loose 4% of growth up to 2020, and my industry looses jobs and finding to Europe. foreign holidays cost me and good cost me more but there’s no way I’m going to stop complaining about the idiots who inflicted all this mess on the country.

The Mash nails it yet again

Two clear choices today – to try and make a success of Brexit and the huge opportunities or sit moaning about how you lost the Referendum

FFS.

Do you really think I’ve got a list of Brexit To-Dos from Mrs May that I’m refusing to do out of spite?

I’ll carry on doing my job for my employer as best I can, just like I did before. For as long as that job lasts, since I have worked mostly for banks it seems. But I will continue moaning about how stupidity from both the govenrment and the electorate has potentially ruined my country and my job, and taken from me something that I held dear.

I hope I’m dead wrong about the economy, and I might be, but I will never get back the ability to easily experience life in other countries. That’ll be gone forever. And yes it was very important to me.

I’ll carry on doing my job for my employer as best I can, just like I did before. For as long as that job lasts, since I have worked mostly for banks it seems.

That’s the spirit! Stiff upper lip.

But I will continue moaning about how stupidity from both the govenrment and the electorate has potentially ruined my country and my job, and taken from me something that I held dear.

Oh, hang on, that upper lip isn’t stiff at all.

Was there a point to that riposte 5e?

No, just amusing myself.

tbh you’re pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I’m thinking **** it, let’s get on with it.

I’m thinking f*** it, you lot got us into this mess, sort it while I sit on the sidelines and ensure that we (as a family) protect ourselves from the 5h1tstorm.

5thElefant – Member
No, just amusing myself

A worthy post time, no doubt, doesn’t contribute much though

So Jamba looking forward to be being evicted from France? I am sure Le Pen would take issue with foreigners stealing french jobs?

Does Jamba actually work?

Bring it on, they need £2m they have £145k. I won’t be losing any sleep over it and they won’t win a court case. Not a snowballs. Great work for them though if they can get it, £2m to trouser. Why don’t you give them my contact details or maybe start your own prosecution against me ?

Don’t flatter yourself. You are a no one.

You won’t be allowed to bury your lies on here though. We can do that for free :)

I’d like to make the most of the “opportunities” of brexit but right now we have our hands full trying to deal with the damage it’s already caused, before it even starts. Hurrah!

Not so good if you are an EU migrant.
Planning to move anyway but worried about my pension contributions.
Also we were planning on renting our UK house but with the £ dropping we won’t get as much as we’d hoped.

b r – Member
tbh you’re pissing against the wind.. i was against it, and firmly believe it was a stitch up from the beginning, but I’m thinking **** it, let’s get on with it.

I’m thinking f*** it, you lot got us into this mess, sort it while I sit on the sidelines and ensure that we (as a family) protect ourselves from the 5h1tstorm.

Armageddon isn’t really going to happen though, is it? It’s just the political situation that’s changing, hardly like it’s anything that really matters…

My instinct is that Britain will look like Britain in a few years time, regardless.

From up there, maybe not.

But certain (big) parts of the economy might take a fair old hit.

My instinct is that Britain will look like Britain in a few years time, regardless

not sure if that’s a comforting prospect.

Hungary just voted 98% to reject just 1000+ refugees

Not really… the other side just said to boycott the referendum, so it’s not really surprising that the only people who voted did so in support of fascism stricter immigration controls. I bet they all took their own pens.

You can tell a lot I think by looking at whether people report the Hungary referendum honestly- as being invalid due to low turnout amidst a boycott- or dishonestly, as being a victory for the anti-immigration crowd. No surprises on here or in the UK press tbh

Telegraph- reports as “emphatically against” “a cry of defiance”, mentions turnout as an aside and doesn’t mention boycott at all, frinstance.
Guardian- discusses the boycott and the validity
Indy- as Guardian
Express- “New low for the EU- Brussels humiliated as 98% of Hungarians reject migrant quotas” (if you’re going to lie, why not do it in the headline, validity described only as a “slight blow to Orban’s pride”, and no mention of boycott.

And so on.