EU Referendum – are you in or out?

kimbers – Member
… his recent trip to turkey resulted him saying we’d be in a jumbo free trade are and wed help turkey accession to the EU

He was in Turkey so do you think he should ask Turkey to stop bombing the Kurdish YPG?

Of course he was there to sweet talk the “dictator”.

Yes, help Turkey to access EU so let’s see which EU nation curled up first … :mrgreen:

kimbers – Member

Will the British pay premium price to be fooled?

yeah theres no way the british would be foolish enough to pay through the nose for anything made in asia just coz of brand image [/quote]
Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.

You want Ranger Rover to be made in India with HQ in say Belgium (some EU country) coz it’s nearer to EU HQ … I quadruple dare them.

People buy iPhone like they change their pants so can do that with Range Rover … Several hundred £ compare to how much? £30K? Good luck.

UKIP?

Hmm on the face of it Johnson may appear a clown, but in reality is a very well educated and quite bright individual

puts me in mind of Ian Hislops opinion of Boris

people always ask me the same question, they say, ‘Is Boris a very very clever man pretending to be an idiot?’ And I always say, ‘No.’

but for me it also impacts his comments on other threads, so for example when he gives advice about Mac stuff, or Paris itineraries, I assume that that is a load of blx as well. Sad, really.

DrJ I would agree and say it is sad for you you would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas whether that be tourism, IT, personal matters or route suggestions in the Alps. Perhaps if you took at face value some of the advice & comments on other matters you’d see the benefit of doing so.

I’ll remind STWers of Greybeard and Munrobiker’s posts on the Corbyn thread, there is a good reason most STWers stay away from political threads and that’s because of the abuse, they showcase STW in the very worst light.

Most forums I frequent have a seperate Political area with different posting rules.

Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.

Wait do is it where the HQ is that matters (like Apple) or where they are made (like Jaguar)? Or just whatever fits your theory?

How about Samsung? South Korean company, HQ in Seoul, phones made in China, as desirable as Apple to many people.

I disagree with you on this post but would happily share a pint ( or demi ) and/or bike ride with you .

you would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas

its not a difference of opinion its the way you ignire facts
How many folk need to say this to you?

We can all have opinions you state things that are just nit true
Did HIllary have a stroke?
With respect this is not an opinion its just factually wrong hence the poster calls into doubt your “opinion” on other matters- why did you need that explaining for example when it has already been stated?

Clearly the threads bring out the worst in some posters myself included on that judgement

GrahamS – Member

Made in Asia with HQ etc in Merica.

Wait do is it where the HQ is that matters (like Apple) or where they are made (like Jaguar)? Or just whatever fits your theory?[/quote]

Apple is still seen as Merican in Asia so people do not really care if they are made sweatshop style coz people want their “fix” … it’s disposable item. Yes, disposable and consider a “fast moving consuming good”.

You want to compare that with Jaguar Range Rover? I dare their marketing team to portray the brand as Non-British. I dare them.

How about Samsung? South Korean company, HQ in Seoul, phones made in China, as desirable as Apple to many people.

Samsung is having a bit of image problem in China as their marketing/branding/image strategy pisses off Chinese market so they change their strategy there. They are not seen as premium brand but rather an average brand while Apple is still seen as premium Merican brand that is hip or hipster related.

Most brands will try to portray or hide their country of origin to boost their sells but some do better than others. i.e. Apple.

Most brands will try to portray or hide their country of origin to boost their sells but some do better than others. i.e. Apple.

It’d be interesting to know how many “Apple” phones are genuine “Apple” fones in China.
Do people use their finger to do “this” in real life? :roll:

captainsasquatch – Member
It’d be interesting to know how many “Apple” phones are genuine “Apple” fones in China.
Do people use their finger to do “this” in real life?

You can buy practically everything in China real or fake according to your budget.

I mean why do some manufacturers have to imitate the genuine item? Yes, they want to free ride on the brand image to sell quick. I mean they could imitate other Chinese brands too but is there any point?

For what it’s worth given the nattering about them, Jaguar / Land Rover areadymanufacture in Asia and Europe. So they could easily move manufacturing aboard if that is what tariffs made sensible.
From their own website.

With Jaguar Land Rover experiencing global sales growth, it is increasingly important to expand our global presence. Manufacturing our vehicles internationally allows the Company to reach markets and customers, creating a stronger, more sustainable and increasingly agile business.

Jaguar Land Rover will continue to evaluate opportunities to increase its manufacturing footprint in the future, primarily in markets with strong growth potential and customer demand.

The company has made significant progress in building our international manufacturing footprint. In 2014 Jaguar Land Rover opened its joint venture in China and commenced construction of the local manufacturing plant in Brazil.

The 50:50 partnership between Jaguar Land Rover & Chery Automobile Company Ltd. is the first British-Chinese automotive joint venture. Located in Changshu (north of Shanghai), the 98 acre facility represents a total investment of 10.9 billion RMB (circa £1 billion). The Range Rover Evoque & Land Rover Discovery Sport are both produced in Changshu for customers in China.

Jaguar Land Rover is the first British carmaker to build a new local manufacturing facility in Brazil and is the company’s first wholly-owned overseas local manufacturing facility. The 14 acre site in the state of Rio de Janeiro represents an investment of R$750m (£240m), with the first vehicles expected off the production line in 2016.

Jaguar Land Rover has had a local assembly presence in India since 2011 and currently assembles the Range Rover Evoque, Jaguar XF and XJ and most recently the Discovery Sport.

In August 2015, Jaguar Land Rover signed a Letter of Intent with the Government of the Slovak Republic for the potential development of a new manufacturing plant in the city of Nitra in western Slovakia. The feasibility study will explore plans for a factory with an installed capacity reaching up to 300,000 vehicles over the next decade. Earlier in the year, Jaguar Land Rover agreed a manufacturing partnership with Magna Steyr, an operating unit of Magna International Inc, to build some future vehicles in Graz, Austria.

By the way Jamba, if you’re ever in York, give me a shout for a pint and an argument.

You will be wrong of course :wink: , but I’m sure it will be an enjoyable evening.

igm – Member
For what it’s worth given the nattering about them, Jaguar / Land Rover areadymanufacture in Asia and Europe. So they could easily move manufacturing aboard if that is what tariffs made sensible.
From their own website.

Yes, but many in Asia still see them as British so the test will be if they move out of Britain completely like MG Rover.

Chewkw – they can just move the production (and bulk of the jobs out) while keeping the R&D in Britain. Preserves the brand like you say, good for middle class R&D jobs – not so good for working class assembly line jobs.

Actually so far, the Brexit vote has probably benefited the middle classes over all with lower mortgage costs, but we’re yet to see much else until the shape of any A50 trigger or final settlement starts to crystallise.

Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country … see where they are now …

Where indeed…

Lotus said it enjoyed a sales rise of 186pc in China to 80 cars over the year, while France grew by 177pc to 158 and Germany reported sales of 175 cars, an increase of 130pc.

Japan is now the company’s biggest single market with motorists buying 365 of Lotus’s Elise, Evora and Exige sports cars, ahead of the 346 cars purchased by British buyers.

Over the year, Lotus expanded its dealer network with the addition of 36 new outlets worldwide, taking the global total to 174.

— http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/engineering/11519371/Lotus-sales-accelerate-as-struggling-sports-car-group-gains-traction.html

igm – Member
Chewkw – they can just move the production (and bulk of the jobs out) while keeping the R&D in Britain. Preserves the brand like you say, good for middle class R&D jobs – not so good for working class assembly line jobs.

Yes, that is what most manufacturers do nowadays to have the R&D in the country of origin but manufacture elsewhere in order to main the “made/design in the UK” brand.

In China the consumers are always tricked into buying “foreign” goods paying premium price only to find everything locally made etc.

Actually so far, the Brexit vote has probably benefited the middle classes over all with lower mortgage costs, but we’re yet to see much else until the shape of any A50 trigger or final settlement starts to crystallise.

There will be a period of adjustment which is normal so let’s wait and see or doing something about own life (referring to myself btw) rather then being tied to some low year job …

GrahamS – Member

Remember Lotus? The last time I heard Lotus was own by some blokes from my home country … see where they are now …

Where indeed…[/quote]

Is that all have sold? Crikey …

Actually, our local national car (Proton) is “using” Lotus technology (think they are the one that bought the brand – can’t be arsed to google) and me mate the boy racer bought one (4 doors saloon) for his wife because it is cheap. The car sounds like rocket … :lol:

Is that all have sold? Crikey …

You are (deliberately) missing the point. As you so often do when it doesn’t agree with you.

Far from ruining the company your local Malaysian boys seem, so far, to have completely turned it around and hugely improved sales in Europe and Asia.

Bear in mind that, according to the FT, Lotus has never managed to break even in its 67 year history!

Slight hijack … back to main point … forget about cars. :mrgreen:

GrahamS – Member
You are (deliberately) missing the point. As you so often do when it doesn’t agree with you.

Lotus managed to get a good deal there by selling to our national car manufacturer.

I bet it is heavily subsidies, how? I ain’t saying more.

It is now our “national” car. :P

Me mate’s wife drives a Proton Prevé which we refer to as Malaysian “Lotus”

This one – Preve

While I used to drive (could only afford) this one with 659CC.

you would allow differences of opinion over politics to impact your judgement on other areas whether that be tourism, IT, personal matters or route suggestions in the Alps.

As has been said before – it’s not about your opinions, it’s about the pointlessness of discussing with someone who just makes stuff up. Nobody expects a fully peer-reviewed article, but some basic adherence to honesty is essential.

Perhaps if you took at face value some of the advice & comments on other matters you’d see the benefit of doing so.

Perhaps, but in a world where the problem is to filter out what’s good and what’s bad from a flood of information it makes sense to eliminate known fibbers in the first cut. Maybe I deprive myself of a good tip about the backstreets of Paris, but the chances seem negligible to me.

I think there’s a >3000 year old kids story that might help explain the effect of all the Brexit BS

Stw wised up quickly, I’m not sure that the it won’t take a fair bit longer for the 52% to figure it out, I imagine Sunderland might get it soon

As has been said before – it’s not about your opinions, it’s about the pointlessness of discussing with someone who just makes stuff up. Nobody expects a fully peer-reviewed article, but some basic adherence to honesty is essential.

Yes Drp.

I must admit I sighed inwardly when I read Jamba’s response – clearly the man has no shame & will go to any length to deny the fallacies he trots out. To the extent that he will say it’s someone else’s fault for becoming annoyed by them, rather than take stock like a normal person & adjust their behaviour accordingly.

Yet, one gets taken to task for pointing out said fallacies & being annoyed by them.

How fing tragic.

Anna Soubry doesn’t think much of her colleague’s rambling speech either

Liam Fox’s speech this week was very worrying; in fact, it was delusional,” she told the Guardian. “How can we have ‘freer’ free trade? Let’s get real, for God’s sake. It’s really worrying that these are the senior people who have the future of our country in their hands.

Hearing this talk about Malaysia, perhaps they have a model for a state development fund that Jez and John could copy over here?

You may argue and debate with anyone but when the argument becomes heated or abuse begins to creep in, then you will have crossed the line.

Unless its targetted at “you-know-who”. Even one mod (in his non-mod capacity naturally) joins in with references that would earn a holiday if applied to others. Perhaps #jambaisfairgameforall should be the new tagline?

I think there’s a >3000 year old kids story that might help explain the effect of all the Brexit BS

Stw wised up quickly, I’m not sure that the it won’t take a fair bit longer for the 52% to figure it out, I imagine Sunderland might get it soon

So, in the moral of that story, who is more at fault, the remainers who spent ages telling silly lies (£4300 per household, WW3, end of western civilisation) or the villagers for stopping believing them?

abuse begins to creep in

Where is abuse creeping in? People are saying “jamba makes stuff up and it’s not worth talking to him”, not “jamba is ugly and his mother dresses him funny”.

Perhaps #jambaisfairgameforall should be the new tagline?

#jambaisfairgamefortheusualbullies is closer to the mark.

@ Ninfan, the two sides were as bad as each other.

Where is abuse creeping in? People are saying “jamba makes stuff up and it’s not worth talking to him”, not “jamba is ugly and his mother dresses him funny”.

This.

If you can’t pull someone up when they are factually incorrect then the standard of debate is headed for the toilet IMHO & the thread should be closed.

Failing that rules put in place where differences of opinion are acceptable & welcomed, but downright falsehoods should be booted in to touch at the first chance!

It’s a shame as his misgivings re Deutsche Bank do seem to have some merit, sadly it’s becoming very hard to discern the truth from the lies & like DrP I tend to switch off from a thread once I’ve seen a post from him on it.

the remainers who spent ages telling silly lies (£4300 per household, WW3, end of western civilisation)

That really really wasn’t what was said, but whatever. Leavers gonna bullshit.

That really really wasn’t what was said, but whatever. Leavers gonna bullshit

And no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit

As cchris2lou says, both sides were as bad as each other, but it’s only one side that’s spent months whinging on like a scolded cat about how the other sides “lies” were some sort of massive and pivotal betrayal that swung the proletariat to vote out while excusing their own.

ninfan – Member

And no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit

[/url]

OK, so not exactly doing the boy scout salute, but it looks like a pretty strong commitment to me.

What message did Bojo and Fox want people to take away from that if not that the NHS would get £350M/week?

They wrote it on a bus, toured the country and when they realised they made a big mistake they quit!
Sadly for some people who believed it, they just cannot quit and live of the family Trust Fund .

er, the slogan was “We send the EU £350 million a week let’s fund our NHS instead” – it might not quite say it directly, but it’s as close as makes no difference in terms of the implication. If you’re going to throw around accusations of bullshit, don’t bullshit in order to do so.

As cchris2lou says, both sides were as bad as each other,

No, you had Boris. Who used Turkey entering the EU as a scare tactic, and is now saying how great it would be to have Turkey in the EU.

The big difference is that the consequences of those lies are going to be very different.

If you can’t pull someone up when they are factually incorrect

No one is saying that, but

And no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever.

Gove WAS saying this – check out between 09:50 and 10:30 and 12:30 below- he openly lies about this figure and states that it could be spent on the NHS

The early stuff is the lie about £350m actually leaving the country, at 12:30 he says “if we took that money back we could spend it on the NHS.”

Anyone can look and listen – its there in full colour too. Gove lied openly and without shame. That interview is probably the most gut-wrenching example of lying [“south” of the yS] that has been seen on TV

[/quote]

no one actually said they were going to spend £350m a week on the NHS, but whatever. Remainers gonna bullshit

Well know remainer Farage disagrees with you
FFS we all knwo they did this so why lie about it ?

Nigel Farage has disowned a pledge to spend £350 million of European Union cash on the NHS after Brexit.

The Ukip leader was asked on ITV’s Good Morning Britain programme whether he would guarantee that the money pledged for the health service during the campaign would now be spent on it.

Speaking on the morning of the referendum result he however said he had never made any such pledge.

“No I can’t [guarantee it], and I would never have made that claim. That was one of the mistakes that I think the Leave campaign made,” he said.

No one is saying that, but

What are you saying then?
We have established no one is just calling him names they are saying he lies/struggles with facts – though you term it baloney. Seems to me you are, nobly/honourably, defending a mate and for no other reason than he is a mate. Were i to be on the end of the “abuse”* he gets you would be inserting smileys galore and encouraging folk to carry on, we both know this is true.

Its shame it has come to this with Jamby but clearly he is beyond the realms of facts , reason and sense and folk will continue to point this out to him.

FFS the strongest defence – in fact only you have tried – admitted he talked baloney that is all we are saying as well. You agree with us

I am saying no more as it is getting close to bullying now IMHO

* I assume you are still ignoring me because I troll whilst giving us all advice on how to treat folk with respect :wink:

Brexiters – even prepared to bullshit about what bullshit they previously made

Remainers were mostly warning of what might happen, in the long run. It still might – leavers haven’t won any arguments yet.