Renton, how are you calling him back?

Sort this and you’ll be half way there. I feel it’s the single most important training for cockers.

My dog guy tells me over and over again that i have to be the most interesting thing happening on a walk, if not the dog will find something else to amuse itself, most likely rabbits, birds, deer…. So talking, playing, rewarding and repeat

The breeder we got our dog from also warned us of this with working cockers – they’re used to working and if you don’t keep them busy they’ll go self employed. And you might not like the jobs they find for themselves.

To be fair you are coming across as a bit of a douche.

Says the guy that is using the fact that a puppy is weeing on his lawn and chewing things as justification for getting rid :roll:. Express that publicly, and frankly you should be prepared for some criticism.

Insults aside, it doesn’t sound like you are the sort of person that has the patience or skills to train or accommodate this dog. Easier just to buy a new one? I hate seeing dogs being abandoned, but if that is the best thing to do, please at least put a little more effort into making sure he gets a good home. Then think really carefully before getting another one. Don’t just think about your family, but about the dogs welfare and happiness too. Then we might avoid a repeat of this thread in 6 months.

You’ve certainly got a mad one! The breed is reknowned for never running off, so that seems odd. Chasing birds yes, especially Pheasants but he should stay close.

Unfortunately Springers have been poorly bred and there are a lot more issues these days. My in laws had them for years but had to do the worst to their most recent due to the fact it would randomly attack other dogs and had other issues too. I’m not suggesting you do the same, rather I would embark on a 3 month training session keeping him in a crate at home and on a lead on walks and work from there. Do not allow the family to distract your training.

I think a firm tap to the top of the head when saying no, firmly reinforces the command, if necessary, however only when its sensible. A dog won’t understand your anger if he’s just returned from running off, as you are shouting at him for coming back.

It’s very tricky and you need to be patient. If you let him out of the crate and he starts misbehaving put him back in. He’ll eventually work it out. Good luck.

I hate seeing dogs being abandoned

Abandoned? Shirley he’ll sell it for a profit? 😉

Another thing from me, might have already been said..

Don’t go training by trying to wear the dog out, as in keep throwing stuff, long runs or walks or letting them loose for too long. All you’ll do is think you are wearing them out, when in fact you will be training them like an athlete.
They come pre-programmed to seek/find/fetch/grab/return/dribble then repeat 30 times. Hone these skills and training techniques during the early months, they’ll be active, engaged and (partially) mentally satisfied.

I’d suggest if he’s running off that you head somewhere remote like a moorland landscape, or farmers field (permission Obvz) where you can see him bounce and keep a decent line of sight on him, then direct the call or instruction that way because the dog will be too busy in the undergrowth to hear you if you are calling in the opposite direction..

No chance of a pic ?

It sounds like you have your hands full. As has been mentioned above, you need to keep training him, dogs don’t learn something and remember it for ever, they need constant reinforcement.

I don’t think anyone has suggested it so far, but have you tried using a long line to work on the recall? A 30ft long line so that you can give him some freedom, but keep him within sight, then recall him. Make sure he chooses to come back to you though, don’t just yank him to you when you want him back.

Other things to try are preventing him going into the kids bedrooms so he doesn’t have the opportunity to steal their toys. Giving him a Kong as has been suggested is worth trying.

Are there any doggy daycare places near you? My friend used to run one and it was very popular with people that wanted to tire their dogs out while they went to work.

Ultimately you have a working dog with the energy to work all day. If you don’t provide an outlet for that energy the dog will be crazy as it will be too worked up to focus. Get back in contact with your trainer and ask for some one to one sessions.

Abandoned? Shirley he’ll sell it for a profit?

Wait. You mean this is all just a stealth ad?

Well played, OP. Well played.

I remember our now 5 year old Cocker (mum a show, dad a worker) displaying much of the same behaviours but he ‘calmed’ down a lot. It felt like we weren’t winning with him for a long time but suddenly things improved almost overnight. Some stuff that seemed to help:

– playing games to stimulate the dog mentally. Hide a few pieces of cheese and use the ‘find it’ command.

– recall to his name has always been a little hit or miss, recall to one of the ACME whistles is much, much better. Treats never worked as rewards but a ball or Frisbee did.

– during training having him run off lead but with a trailing line, we used an old climbing rope. If he ignored an instruction we could stand on the trailing line.

– having a few red lines (e.g. paying interest in sheep) which if he crossed we would be very firm in our response.

– teaching him to run at heal when commanded has been pretty effective and is useful in many situations. Again, a ball or Frisbee helps to keep his attention.

Thanks

Chris

[/url]DSC_0105 by CHRIS NAYLOR, on Flickr[/img]

Abandoned? Shirley he’ll sell it for a profit?

I had to use a bit of willpower not to mention that, should have known someone else would come along and say it anyway :lol:.
And, don’t call me Shirley :-).

Ah yes thats the other one, he does not want to heel any more despite using the same commands as we did when training him.

Its almost as though he has had a bump on the head and forgot absolutely everything we taught him at training.

BTW the same trainer trained our previous Springer and he was brilliant.

Abandoned? Shirley he’ll sell it for a profit?

Wait. You mean this is all just a stealth ad?

Well played, OP. Well played.

Sorry lads Im just not finding this funny at all.

great picture Chris!
a small water pistol is useful for discouraging chewing. keep it concealed so he thinks whatever he’s chewing is having a pop back, then stuff a toy in his mouth. this really worked with mine like flicking a switch.
if you need to discipline ( for instance the snapping thing ), arms around all four legs and pull so he goes on his back, ‘vulcan death grip’ around throat ( just light pressure but let him know you’re there ), and then maintain eye contact and bellow down his nose.
i used to regularly hide from my dog on a walk, so she kept awareness of where i was all the time.
burning grass = keep him off the grass?
i had some success with a citrus collar. i’d suggest a remote controlled one. it puts a puff of citrus up in front of their nose that just stops them dead from whatever it is they’re doing. get him used to wearing it over a period of a week maybe ( just like their first collar ) before you start using it.
good luck. don’t just ditch him. at least post here to see if anyone will take him on.

Our cocker spaniel is hard work for us and hardworking at times. She needs stimulation that comes with training in our field or on moorland walks. Though wilful and down right naughty at times what she does is all related to hunting and retrieving, its often quite amusing. She may purloin your socks of slippers with some stealth but will always bring them to hand when asked. Sticking at the training really helps especially on walks, an application of super treats has an amazing effect on response to the whistle. Using her for beating or finding downed birds on shoot days everything becomes clear. On a walk she can be indifferent to the return whistle at times but on a shoot day never, it’s like she really clicks with what’s happening and what needs to be done. She becomes very obedient and attentive and takes direction to hand signs or whistle. I suppose those day provide the full stimulation that she needs due to the years of breeding. Stick at it with the training, it is hard but you must be consistent as should everyone else in the family. Good luck.

We have have a working cocker who’s now now 3.5 and has been/is bastard hard work. He’s intelligent, stubborn and can stay on the go all day.

He’s never responded to punishment and the kids caused alot of problems by undermining his training, resulting in him thinking he was top dog.

He and the kids are a bit older now and things have begun to settle a touch, but not before surgery for me from an infected bite.

He’s no docile black lab and never will be, but we understand him better now. Really, he just wants to be working, and you can see that when we’re busy in the garden – he’s always involved in what’s going on and poking about,ears up and a grin on his face.

We had

Stair gates, at the foot of the stairs, into the kitchen. Used to control his access etc
A plant sprayer – with a firm ‘No’ as it was used, after a few sprays just Saying ‘No’ was often enough and if not then picking up the spary was enough to moderate his behaviour. Not actually sprayed him with it for at least 6 months I think but occasionally we pick it up if he’d playing up.
Consistency – always respond the same way tot he same behaviour. We’ve struggled with this but if you ‘reward’ a behvaiou (feeding at the table or whatever) the dog will just repeat it endlessly in the hope of getting the same result. It’s the ‘one armed bandit’ approach – if you know you’ll get a jackpot if you pull the lever a 1000 times you’ll just keep pulling the lever.

My advice is to stick with it, use ‘mind games’ not just physical ones and expect a couple of months more of gradually changign behaviour until you’re happy.

[edit] we have a Viszla which are known ‘nutters’ but persevering with training has been rewarded with a dog that mostly does what he’s told has never chewed the furniture and is a lovely companion.

It must be frustrating to have a dog so different to your last one but I think you need to consider changing your behaviour in order to alter how the dog is – don’t assume it will respond the same as the last one you had.

Finally – I can understand how stressful this is, like having a child who you can do nothing with but feel an emotional commitment to.

I have no real experience here, other than once having a new Goldie puppy at the same time as an older Goldie.

Have you thought of taking him back for regular walkies and play dates with his parents? If they are well behaved, they may teach him a thing or two.

We wont get rid of him, thats just the frustration talking.

He really is a little bugger, we hide from him on walks, sometimes he comes back other times he just buggers off even further.

We had my sister in laws dog staying with us for a week and he was whistle trained, our dog started to respond to it too and so we bought one but now hes not interested despite lots of fuss and rewards.

Our 8 month old Cocker spaniel pup is driving us all insane.

Welcome to the world of Cockers, they are not always easy to train and may require a different way of training.

We took him to training classes and he was really good, however he has regressed so badly it’s making walking him a chore rather than being fun.

Sounds like you are not training anymore. Training should be for at least the first 4 years, a minimum of 1 class a week and should spend at least an hr a day training when they are under 18 months if you want a dog that might do what you ask of it.

Chasing birds
Not doing his recall
Going so far away from us when off the lead we can’t see him

This can be corrected with training, your trainer should help.

Stealing food off table

You said Cocker right? How big is the Cocker!? 😯

Jumping on sofa and doing wall of death around the front room

Not enough mental or physical stimulation or separation anxiety.

He has snapped at the wife

The dog should’ve been pinned to the floor by your wife it it did this, you only need to do it once and you do not need to do it nastily. She should also be doing 50% of the training, that earns respect from the dog.
EDIT: Just read your reply of your wife pointing at the dog.. You should never point at a puppy, they will usually instinctively snap at the pointy thing, your fingers.

Burning the grass with his wee

Never had a dog before then.. You can get rocks for their water, yes they really work, grass doesn’t burn.

Chewing his beds and toys to bit

It’s a puppy, but IF it is ever to do beating, you shouldn’t be giving it any toys to chew.

It’s getting to the point where its not enjoyable to have him around any more.

Just like a baby when they are having a bad time, you get through this and is worth it in the end.

He gets lots of walks and attention bit still he is a pain.

If he is getting this then it might be a problem created by the family. Look up separation anxiety, it very common and easily corrected if you have your family trained well.

We have even talked about taking him to a rescue centre and giving him away. We would never do this with any of our previous dogs.

If you have already thought this, but haven’t thought of how to correct these issues, then maybe you don’t have the right skills and mindset to train a Cocker.

Someone tell me it gets better !!!

It does but it will take a lot of effort as you already have issues. This is coming from someone who’s mother is a very good dog trainer, I’ve helped train working Springers & Cockers over the years. I would rather have a Springer than a Cocker due to the way of training and damn Cockers temperament.

Please stick with it, I have always said, its not the training of the dog that is difficult, its the training of the owners that is hard. 😉

http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/

Try looking here for a local training course. I took one of mine years ago. He was an odd character and did everything at hos own speed but loved the structured training. Flushing, retrieving dummies etc. It is what they are bred for.

He worked very rarely but as soon as he saw a dummy he switched on after that initial course. To the point that at the village fete they had a display one year.

Afterwards they had a fetch the dummy race. Many dogs had a go, held at the collar whilst the dummy was thrown and then released.

Then 5 yo, scrotey cursing #1 wanted to enter assuming awkward dog would win easily. Tried to dissuade him but he was having non of it. So off he want for his turn. Awkward dog sat next to him. “dont let go till i tell you’ said the bloke. Long story short, as this most likely is not helping but awkward dog sat at 5yo side whilst the dummy was thrown and did not move a muscle till 5yo gave him the word. He then ambled out, picked up the dummy, ambled back and did a perfect retrieve in the slowest time plus about 30 seconds.

He was THE most willfull and disobedient Spaniel I have ever had. But he was born for a purpose and though he often did it at this own speed he was never happier than when doing it.

Seriously, give the dog a chance. let him do what a hundred generation of the forbears have bred to do.

we had an English cocker and now have a Welsh springer. All the behaviours you are describing are perfectly normal for a dog of that age. You clearly have a high drive dog so you need to channel that so that he doesn’t make your life miserable. Lots of good advice above. I’d recommend clicker/treat training for indoors and scent training in an outdoors. For recall, hide and seek worked a well for us. It channels the natural hunting instinct into a useful reward based game. Our Welshie is prone to running off, the only thing that has worked has been me stopping calling her constantly so that she has to come looking for me (which she does eventually).
Cockers can be very stubborn, and need gentle but firm and very consistent handling.

He really is a little bugger, we hide from him on walks, sometimes he comes back other times he just buggers off even further.

!
He’s probably gone looking for you!

Can pet gundogs be successful?

by admin on November 6, 2011

People often want to know if a ‘pet’ gundog can be a good ‘working’ gundog. The answer is absolutely – yes.
Most working gundogs are pet gundogs

The vast majority of successful working gundogs in the UK today, are first and foremost pets.

Most gundog owners do not work their dogs on a daily basis, even in the shooting season. Most gundogs live indoors as companions and spend their evenings snoozing on the hearth rug.

Some aspects of gundog training may be easier if a dog is kennelled but it is by no means essential to kennel your dog in order to succeed in training him.

There are two principle factors which will affect the ability of your pet dog to learn gundog skills and to perform in the field

Genes
Training

Genes

Your dog’s parentage, the genetic information he has inherited, are important. Whether or not he is a pet, a gundog with working parents is likely to be easier to train, and more successful than gundogs with show parentage.

However there is no reason why many show gundogs cannot achieve a reasonable standard provided they are willing to follow scent outdoors, and like to carry things in their mouths. If your dog has these characteristics you can make a start with gundog training.
Training

The way you train your dog is all important. The crucial fact to remember with a companion dog that lives indoors, is that training is not something that you do simply in special timeslots called ‘training sessions’ . It is happening all the time.

Every time your dog responds in any way to anything you (or your partner, or your children) do or say, he is being trained. For better or for worse. And this is why it may be easier to train a kennelled dog who is not influenced by the natural flow of family life and the disruptive influences of friends and children.

You can however, like many others do, succeed despite the influence of family life. It just takes a little effort and some planning. Don’t be afraid to make a start. Your dog will only benefit from the training.

You might also like to read ‘is my dog a gundog?‘

Thanks mate appreciate that.

Here he is …..

View post on imgur.com

OP what is happening sounds very familiar. It is tough and is does get better. My now 3 year old springer was a nightmare at 8 months to teh point we vowed to never get a puppy ever again.

My advice is get a good trainer to help you, don’t be dragged into using physical and “dominance” type training methods – you are risking making things worse in later life. They are wrong and unnecessary.

I would suggest walking on a long line and practice recall in loads of situations. Pippa Mattinsons total recall is a good book to help train recall. You can practice recall on a short lead as well, the dog does not need to be far away from you.

Try to avoid getting frustrated, that’s more easily said than done I know, but i’ve made mistakes in training due to frustration.

Here’s teh honest bit: My springer started being reactive to other dogs at 18 months, we thought she had an aggression problem and it was stressing us out. We tried to fix it ourselves using online info and a training book but in reality probably made things worse. Earlier this year we got teh assistance of a really good local trainer. And he showed us what were doing wrong, and is helping her on the way, and showed us that she is not agressive but just scared of other dogs because she doesn’t feel protected by us – and i can pinpoint the exact moment this happened. I feel awful, that I didn’t fix this properly when it happened. I am learning a lot every day. She’s not my first dog – had 3 rescues before (2 of which I still have.) Anyway moral of the story – get help now, things will get better.

(PS – pinning a dog on it’s back and staring at it will do nothing but make it scared of you and less likely to do what you want. bloody stupid idea.)

But Spaniels are ace and rewarding. eventually!

pics time:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/uVGR7W]Nell returned from the undergrowth with a new hat.[/url] by Evil Goat, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/pmCh9G]DSC_0287[/url] by Evil Goat, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/rsGFRF]DSC_0106[/url] by Evil Goat, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/Q7HkDa]IMG_20161022_163908[/url] by Evil Goat, on Flickr

It’s a puppy, but IF it is ever to do beating, you shouldn’t be giving it any toys to chew.

Why?

We have this little scamp

Mum is a working Cocker (quite chilled) Dad is a bat shit mental Toy Poodle.

She is coming up to 4 months old and is (touch wood) ok. Clicker training plus hiding treats and things under cups helps stimulate her. I did read somewhere that 10 mins mental stimulation is better than 30 mins physical activity.

That Springer ^ Looks properly mental but that’s ace. I love springers but I have enough chaos with 2 boys in the house 😆

Sorry lads Im just not finding this funny at all.

Is that because of the serious subject matter, or due to the reminder of how much of

a douche

you have behaved like recently :lol:?

Angeldust… if you have come to just drag up old stuff just piss off.

I took him out at dinner with his treats and apart from running across the whole field chasing a Red Kite he was good !! 🙄

It’s a puppy, but IF it is ever to do beating, you shouldn’t be giving it any toys to chew.

Why?

Because it can become hard mouthed, as it encourages biting down on things. The dog should be able to carry a bird without creating any marks on it. The only things it should be given to chew is food/nylabones or a kong toy with food inside. Squeaky toys are a big no no. It should also not be encouraged to do the death shake or play tug of war. Let’s not get off topic here though as the OP is miles away from gundog training, but these are the foundations that are instilled from an early age. 😉

There is some good advice here, find a good trainer, a good one will go above and beyond to help you. 😉

Renton. I strongly suggest getting a long training lead. 20m of webbing. Your dog is learning that chasing wildlife is more fun than you. You don’t want that to be a permanent behaviour. A training lead will stop him being able to do that and you can work together.

Angeldust… if you have come to just drag up old stuff just pi@@ off.

😉 People are not just going to forget that behaviour mate, no matter how much you might like them to. Note that I resisted bringing it up in the first place (I was responding to those that did).

I took him out at dinner with his treats and apart from running across the whole field chasing a Red Kite he was good !!

If you lived anywhere near me I’d invite you to come out with me and my Bedlington, and I’d give you a few tips on how we sorted recall with a very stubborn dog.

So what behavior are you referring to then ? The supposed selling of a bike for more than I paid or was it something else?

Yes that. What else would it be?

Because it can become hard mouthed, as it encourages biting down on things

I very much doubt it indeed – what the difference between biting a toy and food?
I’m on my 4th dog, all trained to the gun, they’ve all had toys if they want them and not one with a hard mouth – I agree with never play ‘tug of war’ though.

Renton what whistle are you using to call him back?

Hi – lots of good advice here.

Not that this is especially helpful but we’ve had 4 springers, and probably 3 of the 4, we’ve gone through similar feelings of “will it get better?” in their early years. And in each case, we’ve suddenly realised it’s got better and the dogs are a complete joy … so hang in there, fingers crossed the same happens for you.

Now an angel (ish!)

[url=https://flic.kr/p/GkTMbr]IMG_0731[/url] by aus23, on Flickr

Says the guy that is using the fact that a puppy is weeing on his lawn and chewing things as justification for getting rid :roll:. Express that publicly, and frankly you should be prepared for some criticism.

Insults aside, it doesn’t sound like you are the sort of person that has the patience or skills to train or accommodate this dog. Easier just to buy a new one? I hate seeing dogs being abandoned, but if that is the best thing to do, please at least put a little more effort into making sure he gets a good home. Then think really carefully before getting another one. Don’t just think about your family, but about the dogs welfare and happiness too. Then we might avoid a repeat of this thread in 6 months.

^This.

Mate, I’m feeling a lot more sorry for the cocker than I am for you at this stage.

Poor form by the breeders too, they should have vetted the new owners more effectively, especially as it’s a working dog. A more thorough vetting would have flagged that the new owners are completely ill-equipped to own working dogs.

Very sad situation. There are specialist working-dog re-homing centres in both England and Scotland, I suggest you get him to one asap before you do him permanent damage.

Renton, if you are no longer wanting to keep the dog contact your local Police Dog Section. They are often willing to take Spaniel dogs as Sniffers. At 8 months that sounds like a good age.

No as I said we do want to keep him.

What I said earlier was out of frustration.

He is a lovely dog. …. Just mental.

Our working cocker does all the things you mentioned. He was brilliant up to around 10 months old, trained to the whistle etc. Then he decided he liked chasing birds more than being with us.
At one point we got that fed up (running off 3-4 fields away, ran across a road, no recall once he’s in the bird chasing mode) he just had walks on the lead, the problem then is he won’t get enough exercise which causes other issues.
As someone said (I skim read through most the posts), get a long training lead and start from scratch again. I still won’t trust ours 100% but it’s getting better, It’s about making you and your playing with him more interesting than what’s been bred into him, ours loves his ball and that is the only thing that will overpower his natural instinct to chase birds.
Cockers are amazing dogs but need a lot of attention and work. When we go away on hols in our camper and he’s with us 24/7 running on the beach and fields every day he’s like a different dog.
Keep at it, the rest of the things like ripping stuff up and going on the settee are the easy bits. We don’t let ours on the settee anymore, it took him a week or so to get used to it but he’s fine now.