“but reading through this post, we can safely say that my opening comment was correct, for a 20 stone bike rider commenting on Ti bikes failing.”

So, a good reason for you not to buy Ti, but that might not apply to everyone else? I’m sure there are some lightweight steel frame that wouldn’t be suitable for you, as well as certain aluminium or carbon fibre ones. Some frames have rider weight limits, no? 20 stone is relatively very very heavy for a person. Did your frames crack because they were flawed, or simply because they weren’t designed to cope with your weight (Not meant as a personal dig btw, just that things have limits)?

But yes, there does appear to be a bit of an issue with some Ti manufacturers. Or is it that people are more likely to rant about an expensive Ti frame failing, than a cheap steel or aluminium one?

If DrP weighs just over half a ton, and Ton weighs 20 stone, where is DezB’s frame cracked??

DrP

5? I’m pretty sure it’s 5.

we do a bit of machining for planes and stuff…

modern steels are pretty strong, with really quite respectable strength-to-weight ratios.

the weight-savings offered by Titanium are often in the bits where you can’t hollow them out easily, usually through accessibility issues.

landing gear is a good example: great big lumps of metal, not all of which is easily hollow-able-out-able (actual aerospace terminology right there).

round tubes are already quite well optimised, there isn’t any un-stressed metal, so the weight savings aren’t as attractive as you might initially suspect.

it seems possible that Ti frames are pushed a little far, with high-strength alloys that may not be *ideal* for welding, in an attempt to squeeze out as much weight-saving as possible.

just my professional opinion guesswork, before i go home…

What inspection do bike companies do on their welds post welding? I bet they don’t do anything like the analysis that industries like the aerospace industry do.

And for everyone who’s either broken a Ti frame or is just against them because they can’t/won’t afford one, my 456Ti is still going strong and in it’s 8th year but I broke a carbon FS last year.

Didn’t stop me buying another carbon FS and when/if the 456Ti breaks it won’t stop me buying another Ti hardtail.

Another here with a bullet proof Ti frame, had it over 10 years, of course I know it was made properly and not like the majority of non us made which seem to be poorly made as cheaply as possible and then charged a premium for!

And as for the “titanium prone to fatigue” 😆 gave me ago of laugh that one 😆

Pfffh another Dr with a Ti frame, obviously all paid too much, more money than sense 😡 😛

(Luckily no one will be able to find my Ti HT as all my bikes are currently hidden under dust)

Wow thats me avoiding a Tripster now. Looks like a Synapse or Supersix.

And as for the “titanium prone to fatigue” gave me ago of laugh that one

Why?

And as for the “titanium prone to fatigue” gave me ago of laugh that one

Why?[/quote]

Because Ti alloys have very similar fatigue properties to steel with the added bonus of no corrosion under normal condotions so Ti has a close to an infinite fatigue life as you will get, providing you don’t exceed its limits

Glad you’re sorted Dr P. I know you ride that bike a lot…..
🙂

But I’m another one that wouldn’t touch titanium with a barge pole. It’s easily the most unreliable bike frame material IME. I’ve seen more cracked titanium than all the other materials put together. I stick to steel where I can because it’s strongest, cheapish and easily repairable. Failing that aluminium is cheap and the big brands that use it a) Know how to get the best out of it by now and b) Have the clout to back it up.

There’s some pretty shitty ti fabricators out there, not the smaller guys, but the larger OEM suppliers. There’s the well known tale about the pacific rim fab that refuses to purge the frames with argon gas for welding and then looks all surprised when they suffer a 10% failure rate due to weld embrittlement.

I will ride a Ti bike at some point, probably when I’m fifty, fat and overpaid!

(scuttles off to hide the new Picknflick he’s currently testing)

If DrP weighs just over half a ton, and Ton weighs 20 stone, where is DezB’s frame cracked??

The only crack on my bike is perched on the saddle.

Although my carbon frame hanging in the garage does have a crack down the seat tube.

So it’s a 6.2

Because Ti alloys have very similar fatigue properties to steel with the added bonus of no corrosion under normal condotions so Ti has a close to an infinite fatigue life as you will get, providing you don’t exceed its limits

I thought this had been debunked. In that although Ti like steel has limits within which it can undergo an infinite number of stress cycles without failing. In reality no Ti bike is ever designed to or built within these limits as it would be too heavy

This isn’t the source for the first time I saw this and actually the one Ti bike does OK here, but its hardly an infinite number of cycles

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/frame_fatigue_test.htm

This is like a maths question at school…

If DrP weighs just over half a ton, and Ton weighs 20 stone, where is DezB’s frame cracked??

DrP

cracking humour that…….. 😆

That’s not the first tripster I’ve seen crack there either, but they do seem good on the warranty front…

I’ve got two ti frames that are 8-10 years old. One set up as a rigid hard tail that I’ve ridden 20,000km on, often with bikepacking kit on. Both lynskeys made for other brands too, they’re the ones that are meant to be extra rubbish quality. Fingers crossed for the future then!

Good test that:
Principia RSL 1.460 60 1,895 welded alu 200,000 no failure

Good job Principia’s alu frames never fail. Maybe this was just a fault in the paint 🙂

In reality no Ti bike is ever designed to or built within these limits as it would be too heavy

The Litespeed Kistuma wasn’t light as it was designed as a freeride frame apparently. They were aslo very expensive to make so not a lot were made.

If the Tripster had not been so successful and the number of frames built and sold had been substantially lower, then there would have been fewer incidents of cracks being reported.

We do not know is what the failure rate is for Tripster frames (although the comments on this page of the Tripster thread would suggest a low single figure percentage). I guess even if we did have that information, we don’t have any data to compare it to for other bikes in this category, e.g. Salsa Warbird, On One Pickenflick etc.

Moreover, the usage of Tripster frames is probably going to be a lot more variable than a standard road bike, and we won’t know what number of failures will involve riders pushing the off road performance to the limit and possibly beyond.

It would be very interesting to know what Dom Mason’s views of the failures are, since he designed the Tripster while at Kinesis, and is now launching a similar titanium frame, the Bokeh Ti, at Mason Bikes. Interestingly, he is using an Italian framebuilder, whereas I believe the the Tripster frames are made in the Far East (China?) for Kinesis.

Hasn’t Wriggles just ridden his Tripster across Canada?

Hasn’t Wriggles just ridden his Tripster across Canada?

No he rode his Salsa Fargo down to the shops and back from Banff, Alberta, Canada to the Mexico/USA border!

Fargo…

DrP

Ah, rich beat me to it..

Salsa Fargo from Banff, Alberta, Canada to the Mexico/USA border!

R. E. S. P. E. C. T.

2 pages and no picture of a big hairy bum

Fargo..

Good job, by the look of it. Lolz

Maybe this was just a fault in the paint

It’s really good trompe l’oeil. Chapeau.

DezB – Member
Hasn’t Wriggles just ridden his Tripster across Canada?

Nope I took a Steel Fargo – I didnt trust Titanium over 2700 miles (it ended up being 2950) and the Tripster didnt take wide enough tyres. I met a guy doing it on 40mm tyres and he had broken 5 spokes in Flathead, Canada.

Anyway, back on topic – nice repair DrP. Should last for ever with that 😉

Nope I took a Steel Fargo

Yes yes we’ve established that! Just think, 50 more miles… 😉

Coming up to 11 years on my only Ti frame here.

Broken quite a few frame components on ally full sussers, and had 2 chainstays on steel frames crack through corrosion.

…just for balance, like…

(another one who weighs just over half a Ton)

DezB – Member
Nope I took a Steel Fargo

Yes yes we’ve established that! Just think, 50 more miles…

I know, i know- I’d ticked the box by then and even the 50 miles back from the border was boring enough!

I have a Ti frame that is 25 years old – it used to belong to hairyscary off here who is a much harder rider than me and who breaks bikes just by looking at them and its still perfect.
(Its also the harshest bike I have ever ridden!)

A guy i work with still has two of his old ti team bikes from the mid 90’s in service. No cracks, creaks or splits. Yet.

There’s a difference between ti frames. I first noted the difference when I bought the first ti 456 frame. It had a lot of ‘play’ (give/compliance) in it. Not from the material but from designing it to be more cushioned. I said at the time it was noodley and wouldnt last long ..hey preso they started snapping at the rear disc side stay. The push for ti frames to be overly complaint is daft. I’m not saying the tripster was designed to be this way but ti frames ain’t suspension and shouldn’t try to design in mimic of ‘suspension’ if that makes sense?

The only frame I’ve ever seen crack JRA was a Ti Cotic on a 2008(?) forum ride in Swinley forest.

A couple of roadie mates have Ti, it’s a sort of ritual most over 50’s seem to go for.. ditch the carbon race machine in favour of a custom Ti slightly slacker, yet seemingly more comfortable grin spinner, then stick expensive campy bling on them.

One close mate has had two Seven Ti’s I the last two years, first one cracked at the headtube, the second hasn’t yet done anything more than eat up the miles. It’s been in a couple of bunch wheel touches, one where the carbon fork bust and ended a decent 300k in a day jolly, it’s gained battle scars and still hammers out the miles at the weekend.

I think it depends on your builder more than anything.

Oh, and my mate is 112kgs if that’s any bearing on Ti (which I doubt)

Well…frame off to Upgrade yesterday afternoon.
I wonder if i’ll get V2 back..
It’s a shame the warranty is only the REMAINING since original purchase…oh well..
DrP