Ill have trouble upping the hours.

Instead I did my sweet spot at 3% incline instead.

Worries that I didn’t understand a single bit of this, when I usually have some amount of clue.

Good intro or site for a novice?

Welcome to you Mr Welsh bloke.

Welsh bloke, have a look here.

FTP = how hard you can go for an hour, measured in watts.

Watts rate of doing work. You can work very hard for short periods (sprint) or amble along gently with low effort for much longer.

A novice cyclist will be able to sustain about 200 watts for an hour. Of course this depends on how big you are. 200 watts is a lot for a 45 kilo lady, and not much for a 150 kilo man. So watts/kilos is a fairer measure for a lot of riding.

There is a lot of theory and argument about how to train – improve FTP, improve endurance, etc. But generally; more riding makes you fitter and able to work harder for longer. Training at or even above your FTP (for short periods, not an hour) will make you fitter faster.

Beginners will have about 2.5 Watts/kg
Fitter cyclists 3 Watts/kg
Trained cyclists 3.5-4 Watts/kg
Successful racers 4.5-5.5 Watts/kg
Pros 5.5-6.5 Watts/kg

6.2 Watts/kg wins you the Tour de France. Pros are about 30% more powerful than amateurs.

Last point, there are no shortcuts, but the biggest gains come early. The jump from 4.3-4.5 is not coming at all.

This chart sort of illustrates what TiRed is saying…

The jump from 4.3-4.5 is not coming at all.

The decline from 4.2 to sub 4 is coming all to easy here, winter weight and stupid colds 🙁

I have a full time job and a part time one too that used to pay for holidays and bike bits etc.

To start with my training fitted in with my life. Now my life fits in with my training and that has meant sacrifices including the second job. The issue is not so much the time but the regularity/or timing off it to get the best results.

As I said FTP says how hard you can work for an hour. The table is more helpful because of course, riding a bike may call for harder efforts over shorter periods. The “power curve” is a measure of how hard a rider can work for a given period. The table shows that for 5 second efforts – such as a sprint – much higher wattages are needed – think kettle not spotlight. The bes sprinters will be putting out 1.5 – 2 kW for very short periods.

So whilst I have a respectable one-hr FTP and can hold my own for an hour or two, my power curve looks more like the Sugar-Loaf mountain with a pretty flat 850 Watt sprint (travel kettle). That’s why I’m not a sprinter and have to use tactics to place in races.

MrB – definite LOL there. I have a Winter Series to help sustain the little form I have. Sadly so did the other 79 riders in the first race!

Last point, riders prefer power to heart rate because it is a measure of work done. Heart rate is a measure of how hard the body is working (and has a maximum), but as your fitness improves, you will be able to sustain longer and more powerful efforts for the same (or lower) heart rate. There is a relationship between the two and it is not a linear one. The Powercal heart rate monitor makes a good stab at estimating power from heart rate, and over longer efforts say 30 seconds, it is not bad.

The issue is not so much the time but the regularity/or timing off it to get the best results.

This. Once I learned the pitfalls and process of appropriate training last year, it became apparant that my biggest issue was this. But however you plan it, it can get knocked sideways. For example, due to a coughing virus I’m now 3 weeks delayed into a build plan to deliver me to some winter crits. Now in actual fact they are C priority to me, so all is not lost, but still…

Definitely the key thing for any newbie is consistency and habit, you can work on this without understanding your FTPs from your LTs.

Get to the point that you are regularly and consistently riding 3-4 sessions per week with 6+ hrs commitment (ideally I’d say 10+ but real life gets in the way for most of us).

Once you get the habit then start to think how you will ‘tune’ those sessions, in effect the ‘train smarter’ you’ve seen mentioned here, starting to target specific goals / numbers you want to improve.

Lastly I think the reason there are so many schools of thought it that different things work for different people. So you have to do some level of experimentation to work out what works for you.

Coaches are great as they can short cut a lot of this stuff but it will still be a learning experience when you start out.

Far too anal this stuff. Wasting time that could be spent doing proper riding, which is all I need to keep fit really. Not that I care about performance. I just ride *mountain* bikes (rare I know on STW), go up a hill, have fun, etc. That’s all that matters. 😛

TurnerGuy – Member
Was going to suggest Ping or Telnet, but can see that isn’t what’s wanted…

Likewise. I thought this was the wrong forum for a moment.

It’s not just about the FTP. Otherwise ten Dam would be a GC contender!

Best get used to the burn 8)

I just ride *mountain* bikes (rare I know on STW), go up a hill, have fun, etc. That’s all that matters.

Is pretty much what I do on MTB – it’s about exploring, taking photos, drinking beer. A bit like rambling while dragging a 15kg bike over hill and dale!

On the road I’m more interested in the numbers, especially as my garmin documents my gradually diminishing summer watts 🙁

whats AEC in the graph above?

Far too anal this stuff. Wasting time that could be spent doing proper riding, which is all I need to keep fit really. Not that I care about performance. I just ride *mountain* bikes (rare I know on STW), go up a hill, have fun, etc. That’s all that matters.

As this thread is full of people who ride mountain bikes a lot faster than you it’s a bit of an odd comment… troll fail

As this thread is full of people who ride mountain bikes a lot faster than you….

I’ll take that as a compliment after i died on that hill in Surrey. Although Craig was right….

I’ve a question – after just a few easy sessions due to illness I’m having to start my next phase – do I get more benefit from a 100k club ride on Sunday and the Ftp test in Tueesday, or shall I go straight to the Test on Sunday? My current answer is “depends on the weather”.

I like what I’m reading here on this thread. Bit too technical but the theory is sound and if you have the time and mentality you can vastly improve your riding by putting some effort in.

At what cost?

Well if it fits within your own personal circumstances then not a lot, but you do get to train whilst riding rather than riding to train so to speak.

Never been one to over analyse data me but I do plan my rides and try to get the best out of my planned ride wherever possible. So todays stint was improving climbing and I got some PB’s doing that, this greatly pleased me but tomorrow will be a “rest ride” so I’ll be hacking the Downs to find some rolling hills to peek through the baron trees and hedges just to admire the view.

Kill it by all means but don’t forget the journey and the view.. 8)

dirtyrider – Member
whats AEC in the graph above?

Anaerobic Capacity, more or less your lactate threshold. 6w/kg isn’t much use if you can’t repeat it on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th climbs of the day. ten Dam would be winning grand tour stages if they consisted of a 50km climb and nowt else…

thanks

@Kryton57

Coming back from an illness I’d probably go with a leisurely 100km ride with the slowest group. Maybe even prepare to cut the ride short if I felt bad during it. Do a “neck check” and increase my build up period if I had to.

No point rushing back from recovery. You lose 100% of the races you don’t start and all that.

What’s a “neck check” CuriousYellow?

whys ten dams AEC so low then? its less than a fifth of the others in the graph, is there a story the pic is from?

What’s a “neck check”

If an illness is below the neck, generally it’s worth a stopping until it’s gone – above the neck and carry on. He’s suggesting that if I’m coughing up my lungs half way through – stop.

Dirtyrider, don’t know the source of the chart, but this is a good read.

Kryton, above the neck is to take it easy not just carry on regardless 😉

ooh good think link mrblobby, thanks, I’ll be reading that in full later on, looks interesting.

Seconded. A really nice piece of work. Takes a Physicist to really show the underlying physiology 8)

To be honest, we shouldn’t be surprised that the pros are 1) consistent in their climbing and 2) pretty close together in performance.

They train for consistency of effort and natural selection during the race will remove those with lower performance.

Should be as easy to spot outliers as the biological passport. I wonder where Armstrong’s climbs feature.

Dirtyrider, it’s from the same folks as Blobby’s link above, but based on 2014 TdF

Here (pdf)

This morning’s productivity has been diminished somewhat now.

Plot spoiler, doesn’t make good reading for Horner.

Chef, if you really want to lose a morning then there’s a whole thread on it over on the cycling news clinic forum.

Kryton, above the neck is to take it easy not just carry on regardless

Fair point. I woke up this morning and my fading cough seems to worse again. I’m getting impatient as although January’s races are “for experience” I want to turn up fit and ready and at this rate my ftpight be dropping!

Good article that.

Thanks, but I’m depressed enough by the whole Astana affair so I’ll avoid the clinic as it might just finish me off.

After reading these articles it seems that I suck because my VO2max is not over 75.

After reading these articles it seems that I suck because my VO2max is not over 75.

You’re just not sucking hard enough 😀

IGMC

I think my suck is genetically determined though 🙁

I think my suck is genetically determined though

It just means you have to suffer harder for longer…you can determine the limits of your suffering.