A request for the singletrack hive mind:-

For a first DH bike if you had the choice between (all similar spec / price)
– Orange 222
– Kona Stinky
– Santa Cruz Super 8 (had posters on my wall of this bike when I was younger)
– KeeWee Cromo 8
– Trek Session 10 (possibly a size to small, but still considering)

What would you pick.

Many thanks in advanced!!

s/h I assume?

The orange.

Keewee, those things are awesome!

Yes all second hand, hearing more and more good things about the KeeWee

The one that has least bespoke bits (hubs linkages bearings) and is in the best nick, forks and shock serviced, chain break pads cassett rotors tires all ok.

Ok here we go
Orange 222= good bike but I personaly don’t get on with them.
Kona Stinky = not realy a downhill bike, more Freeride and so aren’t as slack and have a higher bb.
Santa cruz super8= Ok in their day but have a very high leverage ratio and most cracked.
KeeWee chromo 8= By far the best of your options but a bit heavy ( I may be bit biased as I rode a Chromozone for years!
Trek Session 10= Nice bike but very heavy.

That said if I was yust starting out I would look at the Specialized Status,Nukeproof Scalp or maybe a Canyon.

Why that limited list? For a cheap(ish) 2nd hand DH bike I wouldn’t look passed a Giant Glory – work very well and near indestructible

That’s the list of bikes in my price range local to me…

Who’s selling the Keewee? It could be an “enthusiast” – in which case you might end up with all the spares and extra bits and pieces you;’ll probably need.

If you’re looking at Oranges, check carefully for cracks and repair welds… 222 is more reliable than the newer ones but they’re the sort of bikes that tend to get used a lot so the years add up on top of a design that was never as tough as people think. Buy on condition basically.

Session 10 feels steep and tall by today’s standards, I really didn’t like it at all- might have got used to it but it was a leap going from a modern slack, low trailbike to it.

Just to reiterate As a KeeWee owner they are AWESOME! Put it this way none of the others listed was designed by a fomula 1 engineer.

Disclaimer-that I in my limited understanding know of!

By far the best of your options but a bit heavy

This is some new meaning of the word “bit” that I’ve never previously encountered? 😆

Thinking a best chase up this KeeWee, and give up of the Super 8 dream….

What’s your budget? I just bought my first downhill bike. I was originally looking second hand but it was almost impossible to beat a brand new bike from Canyon for VFM. Peace of mind with a warranty and a stonking spec for the price. Fork and shock are entry level but everything else is very good IMHO

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3131

BoardinBob – Member
What’s your budget? I just bought my first downhill bike. I was originally looking second hand but it was almost impossible to beat a brand new bike from Canyon for VFM. Peace of mind with a warranty and a stonking spec for the price. Fork and shock are entry level but everything else is very good IMHO

http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3131

I’d guess about a third of the price of that canyon!

Yes they are heavy compared to modern bikes but compared to some of the tanks that were availible at the time they weren’t that bad! e.g Brooklyn TMX and that Muddy Fox thing that came with 3 inch Gazzaloddis on.Plus they are one of those bikes that seem to ride lighter than they are.

I have an Orange 224 (not a 222 I know, but near enough the same) and it’s an awesome bit of kit. I’m not a smooth rider, and I crash a lot, and it’s still going strong, it eats anything you throw at it! Mine has bounced down mountains, off trees, rocks and anything else you can imagine on a downhill track, I love it, so I can thoroughly recommend an Orange!

Keewees really aren’t at all heavy~ easily built up under 40lb with full DH kit~ the latest carbon frames are lighter, but the Cromoeight is in the ballpark with the vast majority of DH bikes and were way ahead of their time.

Also worth noting that since they are steel, they won’t fatigue~ buying a Alu DH bike of that vintage is asking for trouble.

As David says my budget is less than a third of a new canyon thus why my choices are older.

Just to throw another option into the mix, found a Cannondale Perp locally, not a downhill bike I know but compared the the other options what do people think?

Another vote for the KeeWee , I love mine. Bought the frame headset and seatpost for £350 towards the end of last year, the rear suspension feels bottomless and despite being made from steel isn’t that heavy (in the below guise it weighs 41 pounds).apparently the mk2 model is a better option than the mk1 (mk2 has a K cut into the headtube gusset as opposed to a circle) due to more rear shock room and better sealed bearings.

uglybassplayer – Member
Just to throw another option into the mix, found a Cannondale Perp locally, not a downhill bike I know but compared the the other options what do people think?

2nd hand Cannondale as a DH bike? I’d just avoid

A big plus of the keewee is that they’re still cool- I know that shouldn’t be important, but it kinda is 😉 My old Ell rode like a bag of shit but I could have tolerated that more if it didn’t also look like a bag of shit.

I’d say the 222, but then again, I’m slightly biased…

(My gravity bicycle..)

Keewee all the way out of those and not just because I’ve got one.

That’s 39lbs – ok there’s a some fairly expensive weight saving going on in places but it’s all proper DH stuff and the 823/ProII aren’t light by any means.

Only issues I would say is that even though they are long low and slack there’s probably an extra inch on the back end over more modern bikes but that makes it massively stable when things get quick or rough.

It’s a shame they’re not wider known and that the company folded (or got bought out by a company that went on to source catalog bikes from China) , an updated Cromo 8 could be an awesome bike.

I would Say Keewee, then 222 then the Stinky..

the keewee might be a tad weightier but they are nice solid DH bikes a bit of a posh starter bike TBH…

The 222 is still reasonably common, some adjustment options, certainly a proper DH bike, you’ll be able to obtain spares if you need them.

Stinky, arguably not a ‘proper’ DH bike, slightly steeper angles but it will do the job and a lot of people started out on old Kona’s (some of us still ride them)…

Neither of the others are “Bad” bike but the Super 8 is an old frame now and was well know for cracking (you might be better looking at an older Bullet if a Santa Cruz really takes your fancy). and the Session 10 was Heavy and only sold in the UK for about a year so they’re not too common and spares will be scarce.

The other downside of the Stinky is that it’s a classic “first dh bike” which means they tend to get bought, hammered, sold, hammered… I had a look at a few as complete bikes and tbh there wasn’t one I would have touched with a 10 foot pole, it’d have cost a fortune to fix all the issues. Not the bike’s fault obviously!

Thanks for all the advice,

Think I’ve settled on the KeeWee, is there anything I should be looking for when I go and see it, are bearings/bushings still available?

I’ve read comments about long chain stays, is this a real detriment to its slow speed handling or ins it something you learn to ride around?

Cheers

Linkages on the Keewee are all standard sealed bearings so no problem getting spares. The bottom linkage is a little exposed so gets a battering from rocks but that just means it looks a little unsightly. I’ve had mine for 5 years now and it’s done a month or two in the alps and I’ve not bothered to look at it and it’s been fine. I ought to replace the bearings at some point.

Long rear end/ Not really a problem, it does mean it’s not necessarily as playful a bike as something with a shorter rear longer front combo but these things are a compromise and if you’ve only got a few hundred quid to play with this is likely to be the best solution.

Thanks speeder, does it use a standard shock and easy to obtain range of springs, what’s a good spring weight for someone approx 95kgs

The KeeWee looks like a good thing but i’ve read that it has a chainstay length of 18.5″! (don’t know how accurate that is)
That’s very long, my DH bike has 16.3″ chainstays and I find anything over 17.2″ to lose a lot of the fun on jumps/wallrides/drops etc
It’ll be stupidly stable though.

Standard size shock no surprises there – I forget the shock size but it’s a 2.75 spring so easily obtainable. Mine’s fitted with a Vanilla RC and it’s a fantastic shock I can’t fault it but then the frame was owned by a guy that worked at TF Tuned before me so it had the full Push race tune on it so not necessarily representative. Would happily recommend that combo though.

Which spring? http://www.tftunedshox.com/info/spring_calculator.aspx says 450-500 depending on suspension type (enter 95 2.75 8 and 33%) and because it’s a linkage driven single pivot I’d tend to err somewhere in the middle but then 2.75 springs are very cheap 2nd hand so I’d give both a try and see what suits better.

18.5″ chainstay length? I don’t remember exactly but It’s not far off. Only issue i have with it is it can be a bit reluctant to manual and do very slow speed turns but you just have to be committed to both. Never had an issue with drops or jumps.