Decline in writing standards

Bizarrely I always internally vocalise "mtb" as "mountainbike" when I read it. So to me "a mtb forum" actually makes perfect sense, but I can see that those who read it as "em-tee-bee" would prefer an "an".

And no, effect and affect are not homonyms:

homonym noun a word with the same sound and spelling as another, but with a different meaning, eg kind(helpful) and kind(sort).
— Chambers

Sorry for the delay, I was out rooting sheep because, and lets be honest, there's nothing else to do in NZ. <—- Look I used a comma there as well…

Missing apostrophe in let's. Tsk, tsk.

Communication is more important than "writing standards".

In my experience this is usually said by those who struggle to communicate.

Were they engineers? They're not genetically predisposed to accurate spelling or grammar.

You should try working with Maths graduates.

Why thank you.

I bemoan the decline in original thought more than standards of writing.

There was a funny and very topical piece on the radio last week from the guys that did Peep Show, about a new service called "i-reckon". To save you the hassle of thinking you can download all your views and opinions direct from the internet. All neatly sorted and searchable by author, theme etc. It even had a shuffle function…

as a product of the current education system, please don't shoot me down.. but I'd appreciate some answers on a current sentence I'm stuck on:

a group of sheep were gathered
a group of sheep was gathered

'were' sounds nicer. but I'm thinking it's 'was' as 'group' is a singular noun?? (I really don't know what I'm on about)
and I got an A in Higher English.. 🙁

this is all about whether you think a group of sheep is a count noun or not. by that i mean can you count the constituent parts of the group.
if its a count noun then its were
if its not then its was

i think sheep could go either way because a big mass of sheep is hard to count! although of course to go to sleep you count sheep so who knows.

a flock of sheep were on the road
a flock of sheep was on the road – i think its this one
some sheep were on the road – this is definitely right

Going back to the OP:

Writing and grammar are not higher intellectual functions. Someone can have impeccable grammar and still be a fool. So whether your senior managers are making written mistakes is irrelevant to their ability to operate within their role, so long as those errors don't change your understanding of what they were wanting to communicate. Mixing up 'affect' and 'effect' isn't going to result in their patient receiving a lethal dose, for instance. Its an easy mistake to make and you could easily make it even if you are totally versed in the differences, but I'd imagine your managers have better things to concentrate on than proofing their work with that level of scrutiny.

10 years ago they wouldn't have had to actually write anything, thats what secretaries were for.

Mixing up 'affect' and 'effect' isn't going to result in their patient receiving a lethal dose

Which is a relief given that I'm currently writing software for medical devices…

Anyways, quick affect/effect pop quiz:

1. The applause showed how deeply the presentation had _____________ the audience.
2. His attitude was _________________ by his upbringing.
3. What ____________ do you think the news will have on her?
4. No matter what he does, it will have no _____________ on me.
5. No matter what he does, it will not __________________ me.
6. What do you think the _______ of the decision will be?
7. How did her son's departure _________________ Mrs. Sanago?
8. How was the team _______________ by the loss of their coach?
9. I was impressed by the _______________ of Churchill's words on Britain during that time.
10. Do you know what ____________ that medicine will have on you?

Can you answer those with 100% certainty without cheating?

1. affected
2. affected
3. effect
4. effect
5. affect
6. effect
7. affect
8. affected
9. effect
10. affect

Funny how the more frequently you see a word written down, the more it starts to look like gibberish…

I assume you do also know about the rule regarding writing numerical values too?

😉

You're wrong with 10, it should be effect

Signed, Pedant.

I'm being driven mad by colleagues writing 'myself' and 'yourself' in documents rather than 'me' and 'you'. It doesn't make you sound clever, it makes you sound like a footballer.

The curse of the reflexive pronoun! It's used a lot by sales people (Would that be acceptable to yourself? Please do not hesitate to contact myself. Etc.) It should be used when referring to the subject of the clause (e.g I will do it myself). Otherwise, you just look like a stupid person trying to be clever.

(And breathe).

The official answers (from http://www.lessontutor.com/eeseffect.html )

1. affected
2. affected
3. effect
4. effect
5. affect
6. effect
7. affect
8. affected
9. effect
10. effect

9/10 for the deeply affected Mr Agreeable

Bugger. Although in my defence, by the time I got to 10 I was losing the will to live. 🙂

It does have that affect. 😉

because you should write sentences that include abbreviations as though the term was not abbreviated

I don't believe this to be correct, you should write it as you intend it to be pronounced ie either as abbreviation or as plain text. I think one could make a case for putting "a/an MTB" as you cannot know the preference of the reader for expanding the abbreviation. I would say "MTB" but think mountain bike (while sometimes wondering what the T stands for)

I got them all, but you'll have to take my word on that 😉
too much of a phaff on my phone.

I don't believe this to be correct, you should write it as you intend it to be pronounced ie either as abbreviation or as plain text.

Exactly. If you wrote "An MRI scan" I would assume you intended to convey "emm are eye", whereas "A MRI scan" conveys "magnetic resonance imaging"

Really? What other types of scans are associated with the letters MRI?

I'm now thinking of that rubbish joke about cat scans and lab tests. 🙂

It doesn't matter. Communication is more important than "writing standards". So long as the meaning is clear, it's fine.

Oh dear. Writing standards exist to promote clarity in communication. Ignore them at you're peril [sic].

I agree with the Engineer comment. Most engineering projects use collections of English sentences (requirements) to specify what is wanted. A single requirement can result in significant development costs. Frequently, a customer is surprised when what you built is not what they wanted. Why? because their requirement was badly written. In Engineering, bad English costs ££££££££££££.

Simple words used incorrectly – affect vs effect

Coincidentally I just had to correct my boss on this one, he'd filled in a load of bug reports saying that the operation of our software wasn't effected by a control setting – what? My complaint must have had an affect through, since he's effected a change in all the reports now.

The problem was definitely to do with an API function though, not a API function (you can only say that with a scouse accent, try it). An SDK consists of lots of APIs by the way.

while sometimes wondering what the T stands for

Logically, it stands for terrain as an ATB is an All Terrain Bike, so an MTB is a Mountain Terrain Bike.

Frequently, a customer is surprised when what you built is not what they wanted. Why? because their requirement was badly written

Yes, but that's usually not due to grammar and/or spelling mistakes, but errors of omission, unstated assumptions, and so on.

usually not due to grammar and/or spelling mistakes,

Unless they get a portcullis when they wanted a Portacabin… 😉

M_F, I think you mean Mountainous Terrain Bicycle. Or Mountainous Bike for short.

I think you mean Mountainous Terrain Bicycle. Or Mountainous Bike for short.

I guess that would make sense 🙂 I wasn't thinking too deeply when I whittered.

I love these thread because they are always helpful but I hate them too as they make me feel very stupid.

I hate typing on these threads in case I make a msitake.

Me to.

I love that joke about the lab report/test and the catscan. Simple, clean, funny and my vet buddy wet himself laughing at it.

where are these sheep ?

gathered on a hillside. just doing their thing.
(I do hope you were referring to my post. if not, I apologise)

What gets me in loadsa letters, mails and even on here is the confusion between their, there and they're… Wot's that all about? 🙄

Pet peeves

"alot"
"aswell"

Quite common on here! 😕

Also

"I want to loose weight"

tbh wtf lol… 🙄

Someone on a forum yesterday talking about his jury duty experience

"It is interesting when you hear the enditement before they pick the jury."

😆

skidartist – good point however given their role and expected levels of written communication I would have expected better. Maybe its just me but if I read something that has a simple word mistake then I question the accuracy of the whole thing. But thats just me and I am perfick.
m_k – yes

Anyway i've just got to work after a lovely 2hr ride on nice dry dusty singletrack so I'll find something else to whinge about soon. No sheep this morning i'm afraid.

k thx bai

It is interesting when you hear the enditement before they pick the jury.

indictment: the 'c' is silent and the 'i' could as easily be an 'e'…

Do you spell everything phonetically?

Don't get me started, check this out from a sea fishing forum I use…

'well to cut a long story short it was crap caught alot of poating and whiting but didnt want that i want cod or ling out of me my dad my m8 nd ma grandad i caught a ling and a cod big enough to take none of the others did but there was only 3 other cod and ling caught that wer big enough to take home it was not wat i expected we couldnt get on the wrecks as the sea was a little to rough to stay over the wreck but i caught the fish and was rather pleased with my self as i was the 1 that people wer watching most of the time to see what i had caught i caught alot of undersized ling but gave a good fight and was useing light gear which added to the sport'

Now don't go slagging anglers off, but a lot on that site write (?) like that, but he's the worsest!

Antipodean teaching standards ? criminal.. 🙄

interesting post NZcol. I spend my life either writing reports or proof reading others and i usually end up re-writing them. In many cases proof reading just results in a correctly spelt jumble of words, and there's no way I can let something go out like that with my name on. I used to think it was the poor education of the students on placement with my team, but more recently I have been working with a middle aged and, to be honest, far better qualifed team than ever before. There's no diffrence. Having said that I can't do maths for toffee, whereas the shite pedlars in the writing department are rather astute with the numbers