After annoying the hell out of my girlfriend going on about it, I thought I would turn to the internet for advice. I mean, if you ignore the blatant outliers, that normally works well, right?

I want a van. Not need, want. I don’t need it, but it would make getting to places, staying there overnight and getting back a bit easier than using the single car we have at home, or trying to carry a bunch of stuff on the back of my motorbike, specifically skydiving kit (carrying a rig on the back of a bike might sound like a recipe for hilarity, but it scares me more than skydiving and riding the bike combined). Same thing with carrying my bikes… It’s just way easier to fit them in a vehicle that’s designed to carry things.

ANYWAY…

Choices near me are limited. My budget is towards the “bargain” section, but I have some flexibility, A full-on camper is going to be way more than the budget unless I go for a 40 year old Fiat or similar with more rust than mould, so I am looking at either a T5/Transit, or a Scudo/Jumpy/Expert, all of which are long enough for me to put a bed in, sleep lengthways and have enough space to not go insane if I have to spend a few days in. For reference, I had a T5 before I moved here to Sweden and it was fine for what I am planning.

BUT…

T5s are that combination of expensive/higher mileage/older that T5s seem to have on the second hand market, and the S/J/E’s I have seen, despite being generally cheaper/newer/lower mileage seem to all have corrosion. Weirdly, only the Scudos seem to be in decent shape. As an example, a 2015/2016 Scudo/Jumpy/Expert with about 175k Km on the clock is about 60-75k SEK compared to a 2010 T5 with about 220k Km on the clock for about 85-90k SEK. Both sorts drive pretty similarly, both are equally expensive to tax at that age and have similar-ish economy. The T5s are a bit bigger inside, both longer, wider and taller, but not too much.

I’m not planning on cutting holes in the roof and sides, so no permanent changes, but I don’t think the van will be a forever vehicle. And that is the key… Buying at the top end of the budget means less money for the bits I want to use to convert it, or at least make it a not terrible place to sleep. It also means that I may take a bit more of a gamble when I want to sell it on in three years time or so. Cheaper probably means more of a gamble though, even if it is newer.

So…

STW: Would you go

a) Expensiver/older/more miles T5?

or

b) Cheaperer/newerer/fewer miles Scudo/Jumpy/Expert?

c) Hyundai i800

Nah. 16 for sale country-wide and all miles away, high mileage and/or expensive

D) Vito

Sorry*

*I’m not.

Vito sadly seems to fall into the same category as T5/T6… All worked to death and more expensive than the year would suggest.

…All worked to death and more expensive than the year would suggest.

Also a description of the entire current van market.

I also want a van but I’m not desperate enough to pay current prices for knackered old tat.

Hyundai i800

Ever driven one or just seen a picture and think it looks similar to a t5.

I assure you they are nothing like to drive. Even more Agricultural and noisy. – something I note you hate on other van threads

Probably the reason you don’t see many in he wild.

I had this last year. Couldn’t justify the VW tax on a T5, ended up with a Trafic. I’m happy enough.

Driven both, own a t5. Quite liked both tbh. Both drive quite well and are vans at the end of the day.

But – Just avoid the biturbo transporters as they’re notoriously cr@p engines that fail early.

Personally i am not a fan of the older traffic/vivaro etc. Driven a few for work and most failed on me in some way (gearbox went and a door fell off).

Vw tax is real but if its not your long term plan that’s a higher residual value too.

Just get the best solid van you can, lowest miles, full service hist etc.

Ever driven one or just seen a picture and think it looks similar to a t5.

I assure you they are nothing like to drive. Even more Agricultural and noisy. – something I note you hate on other van threads

I admit I haven’t actually driven one but thought they looked like an ideal way to swerve the van tax and still have something that’s a big empty box. Whatever I get will be for carrying myself and a muddy trials bike so I’m not that fussy. Long journeys will be in the family car.

There’s over 100 of them on Autotrader though. Not sure where the OP is looking.

Transit. There’s a reason they sell bazillions of them

There’s over 100 of them on Autotrader though. Not sure where the OP is looking.

Given as they had prices in SEK, I’d guess Sweden.

There’s over 100 of them on Autotrader though. Not sure where the OP is looking.

Maybe that’s why you don’t see them in the wild. All 100 owners in the uk are trying to get rid.

But yeah op is in Sweden

Please stay away from the Vito. I had one after two T4s (a 2015), and it was terrible. Weird problems included bad steering wheel positioning, a parking brake that wouldn’t hold and was in constant need of repair, body work that rusted faster than I could wash the vehicle, and a transmission that ground like it was made of sand.

I would go for the T5 and just take good care of it.

Hyundai i800

Ever driven one or just seen a picture and think it looks similar to a t5.

I assure you they are nothing like to drive. Even more Agricultural and noisy. – something I note you hate on other van threads

Probably the reason you don’t see many in he wild.

I’ve just got one these, it’s ace! Rear seats took 5 mins to remove and its massive. It’s quieter than my mates T6 and cheaper to tax and insure. I wouldn’t discount them without trying one. It’s a hugely practical car / van!

Toyota Hiace are a solid vehicle similar in size to a T5.

But – Just avoid the biturbo transporters as they’re notoriously cr@p engines that fail early.

The engines are fine, it’s the turbos that blow, isn’t it?

How about looking at some of the Jap imports or a large people carrier?

I had a Sharan and with the rear seats removed you had enough room for a bed and the bike next to you.

Left hand drive is the problem here. I’d actually considered taking a flight down to Germany and getting something from there, but it just compounds the rolling of the dice on quality.

FYI… annual tax on both the J/E/S (and the Pro Ace if I read things correctly) is about 4800SEK with the T5 about the same or a little more. As soon as the newer Euro6 engines come in on the Pro Ace and the Jumpy/Expert, it drops to about 2.5k SEK. Economy is a bit better on the J/E/S/Pro Ace, insurance is about the same at about 5k SEK for the equivalent of fully comp. Sadly, the only Newer Pro Ace I have seen for about this money has no MoT equivalent, is listed as the equivalent of SORN’d and has a side door that looks like a drunk trainee missed with forklift.

It really does boil down to whether I want to shell out 90k SEK on a decent condition 200k Km 2012 T5 2.0 or between 60 and 70k SEK on a 180k Km 2012-2015 J/E/S.

Vw t4 for the win….great vans!

Cheaper than a T5 and more like driving a van than just a people carrier.

if you can find one that hasn’t already been converted to a camper could still be at an ok price.

I have a peugeot expert, it’s done everything I could ask of it. Carries 3 bikes in a stand with ease, could easily take a couple more. Couple of canoes or box tent on the roof. Also shifted loads of furniture when my sister was flitting.
Just run of the mill maintenance required in the 4 years I have had it. It’s a deiseil reasonably good on fuel and really good acceleration . It’s a2 litre engine.
Downsides
Only 3 seats and oneof those is for a child. Only a mesh bulkhead, it was a dog wardens van before I got it. Lack of a solid bulkhead means it’s noisy and takes ages to heat up on cold winter days

Remember to allow the higher tax and insurance, plus van speed restrictions.

The above would be enough to put me off owning a van unless I needed one.

I’d rather get something like a C4 Picasso or estate car like a passat.

Last two vans have been TVP (Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar) and have been great. Current van is full camper conversion 17 plate Trafic. Really nice thing to drive and has been faultless for us. Current Vivaro is no longer part of this partnership though. No VW tax but just as capable and reliable IMO.

We had a mesh bulkhead on an old works van, heating and noise issue was massively improved with a couple of layers of the felt we cover sets in. I’m sure you could make it even better with more suitable materials but we never felt the need

Remember to allow the higher tax and insurance, plus van speed restrictions

Van tax is flat rate, I think mine was £290 last year.  Most large van like cars, MPVs etc will be in the same ball park, I just looked up Smax, Galaxy and VW Sharan and depending on engine they go up to about £365.

Speed limits…really makes little difference…motorways are the same limit, A roads would need you to drive quite hard to maintain 60mph in many cases, the only niggle is duals but to be honest its unlikely you will get caught unless you always drive at speed limit plus 10%.

Citroen Berlingo L2. The L2 being the important part as despite being the standard wheelbase the body is longer. Long enough by a significant margin that you can sleep in there & easily enough space for 3 DH bikes with the wheels on. Mrs D has had hers from new and it has genuinely been the most reliable motor we’ve owned.

The speed limit seems odd. Firstly, how much of a rush are you in that going 10mph slower is going to negatively impact your day? It’ll certainly negatively impact your fuel consumption.

On the other hand, in Germany anything under 3.5t has no speed restrictions on the Autobahn. Had 190kmh in my old T5 and similar in a Sprinter.

Original plan was something like a Berlingo/Partner L2, possibly even an LWB Connect, but I’m near 2m tall and that’s a tough sell if you have to spend a lot of time in it and/or share that space with a significant other. I got gifted a roof tent last year, so my thinking was that I could use that for longer trips away, but a bigger van does give me more options if the weather turns to shit.

Planning stages on how to make it less of a panel van just now and wondering where I am going to find the time and space for it. Solar has already been binned from list for this year and a leisure battery and DC-DC/split charging is currently “nice to have” too. I seem to be taking a lot more shortcuts this time as well. Less sound deadening, more use of closed cell foam sheet and sealant for the insulation, purely because it is quicker and easier.

I’d rather get something like a C4 Picasso or estate car like a passat.

Yeah, but the OP wants something with the space to sleep in comfortably and hold all his kit. I’m in the same boat and no estate would cut the mustard.

c) Hyundai i800

Got the same answer on another van thread. Went to have a look and they all seemed older and with higher milage than the equivalent Transit etc.

As for the answer to the OP, I’m having the same dilemma and have ruled out a VW because they’re just too expensive. Reckon I’ll go for a Transit Custom as I think they’re better looking, if a little more money than the Pug/Fiat/Vaux options.

T5 all day every day. Mine’s on 400k now. T4s are horribly agricultural in comparison. Transits have an awkward driving position and I could never get my clutch foot comfortable. Any Vito in Sweden will be rotten by now. Trafics aren’t awful.

As mentioned above, Berlingo’s have grown in size – my original M59 model is tiny in comparison to newer models. Expert is available in a ‘Multispace’ version like a bigger Berlingo.
MPV’s have the advantage of not being thrashed/abused/multi drop parcel delivery/hairy arsed builders vans and already have insulated rears.

Check out Amdro and Campal boot jumps for quick and easy sleeping/cooking removable arrangements.

Don’t bother with onboard DC / leisure batteries – just get a decent Jackery/battery bank.

Current shortlist is one of these two:

https://www.blocket.se/annons/stockholm/peugeot_expert_panel_van_1_2t_2_0_hdi_euro_5/1000925188

https://www.blocket.se/annons/stockholm/volkswagen_transporter_skap_2_0_tdi_3_sits_dragkrok/1000666602

Expert has the roofrack, summer and winter tyres and a split charge/aux battery built in (and a workshop, but I don’t need that) and a very low mileage for the age. Transporter is generally quite tidy for the age, decent mileage too. No idea on tyres though, a lot of people seem to have just “all year” tyres when they sell and that’s not ideal for living out in the country.

The engines are fine, it’s the turbos that blow, isn’t it?

No, unfortunately on the (early? ) T5.1 180Bhp (not the 140) the egr cooler disintegrates: “The exhaust gas corroded the (erg cooler) alloy which in-turn was sucked back into the engine and wore the bores. This, in turn, increased oil consumption and blocked the DPF.”

As for the answer to the OP, I’m having the same dilemma and have ruled out a VW because they’re just too expensive. Reckon I’ll go for a Transit Custom

+1 Friend sold a 06  T5 and got a 17 Transit and says it just a much much nicer van to drive, and has ALL the toys unlike the VW, which even now (well recently) sell vans without ‘basic’ option like air con or cruise control.  I was looking at Tourneo’s myself (UK car speed limit applies), as I found that the van seats are normally bolted in (including the custom) and I want to be able to remove/refit them. Again I’ve looked at i800 and elgrande’s and they seem no better options, are significantly smaller, or no cheaper and much much more to go wrong. Just get the wet belt checked/replaced if you go for a transit

Well, the journey may be reaching it’s end. Went into town yesterday to see a T5 that looked decent and a very low km Expert. Turns out the T5 was considerably more rusted and shitty than the photos suggested but, to their credit, using white tap to cover all the rusted out sills was pretty inspired. The Pug Expert was in better shape bur, again, the reality was way worse than the advert. Drove well, no serious defects, but I just did not feel it was worth the money.

On the train back I saw an ad go up for a Jumpy (the Citroen equivalent of the Expert) that was newer, but higher km than the one in town and organised seeing it today. It has rust, not terrible by any means and something that paint should treat quite easily. Interior is not terrible, comes with both roof bars and two sets of wheels/tyres, some extra electrics and stuff, interior does not look like someone has been using it as a meth den. It’s a bunch cheaper than the other on as well.

I’m going to try and get to have a test drive in it and, assuming that goes well and they can put it through the equivalent of the MoT, I’m going to buy it. It’s not the long model (which would have been slightly better, but it’s long enough for what I want and will do.

I am happy with this decision. Now all I need is a bunch of isolation, insulation, wiring, controllers, etc, etc.

Renault Trafic owner here. Does 37mpg, handles really well (better than my last van, a T5). Not converted, have a Flettner vent to stop condensation and a Beso bed that folds away. Will be in it tomorrow night, nice and comfy.

Just researching Lwb Fiat Ducato however, for multi-day touring…..😎

What about a H1 Ducato or similar? Much better for rust and fairly decent mpg if it’s a newer Fiat.

@mikertroid if you want it as a camper and want decent standing room then I would advise you to look for the H3 roof… Assuming you’d want a swivel seat up front you’ll have to build a step to raise the rear floor unless you want your legs dangling.that step eats into the floor space.

I’ve a H3 and we raised the floor throughout which gives me a load of storage in the floor.

@alpin thanks, yes it would be L4H3. Did 10 days touring in one (L3H3) overseas v recently and loved the extra height.

Loved how it drove, but my Trafic genuinely felt like a hot hatch in comparison when I got back! 😅

I can’t store a looooong and high van, so an L2 Jumpy/Expert would be ideal, but this will do. When it gets to summer and I need more space I will use a roof tent.

“Loved how it drove, but my Trafic genuinely felt like a hot hatch in comparison when I got back!”
It’s not a race… 😉

Another vote for the T4 here. I’ve had mine for 14 years and it’s been a great experience.

Buy a well serviced 2.5tdi, take it straight to a decent body shop, get the rot/rust sorted and enjoy many years of reliable agriculture driving 😎

I keep seeing T3s and regret not buying the one I saw with an approved engine swap to the Volvo block. More power, better economy and more reliability. It was only a doublecab pickup though, so not ideal for what I had planned.

The first place I went to on Saturday had a couple of T3 panel vans in, but they were either already sold, or needing a lot of work, or both.

Still, going to look at the van and drive it after 1500 today.