The oil belongs to Scotland – that is a fact.

Can we have a link to the proof? 5 mins of googling leads me to believe that North Sea Oil is entirely owned by the UK. Happy to be proved wrong.

I guess that Porridge Wog isn’t one either then?

TJ, pictured Yesterday:

Its a complex claim – some discussion on it in Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Scotland%27s_oil

However due to the existence of two separate legal systems in Great Britain — that of Scots law pertaining to Scotland and English law pertaining to England and Wales, constitutional law in the United Kingdom has provided for the division of the UK sector of the North Sea into specific Scottish and English components.[5] The Continental Shelf Act 1964 and the Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 defines the UK North Sea maritime area to the north of latitude 55 degrees north as being under the jurisdiction of Scots law[6] meaning that 90% of the UK’s oil resources were under Scottish jurisdiction.[7][8] In addition, section 126 of the Scotland Act 1998 defines Scottish waters as the internal waters and territorial sea of the United Kingdom as are adjacent to Scotland.[9] This has been subsequently amended by the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundary Order 1999 which redefined the extent of Scottish waters and Scottish fishery limits.[10][11]

5 mins of googling leads me to believe that North Sea Oil is entirely owned by the UK

Your googling powers are distinctly lacking!
A fair amount is owned by the Norwegians 😉

Oh, TJ relied on google and wikipedia for his knowledge, he must be right then 🙄

just cause tj is english you should not stop him from fighting for the country that he has adopted. Scots are born but tj chose to live in Scotland, that qualifies him to speak (a little englander but a scottish nationalist views).

He reminds me of Scotish Lord Haw Haw.

If you want Scottish independence you need to get the English to vote for it. You might be surprised how much more enthusiasm you’d find South of the border.

Amen. Roll on the devolution referendum.

Zulu – I could have posted the various acts of law both natuonal and international that give rise to Scotland having control of 90% of the oil (but only a few % of the gas). However I thought the Wiki link well written, balanced and easy to understand for the hard of thinking

All property is theft. You know that TJ

Do you think the snp will get the chance to have an independance vote or will their majority go at the next election? Just interested as we never get any news in england from north of the border. What is the mood of the people on this issue? Not your view tj I think you have made it clear.

What majority ? The SNP are a minority “government”.

The bit that TJ left out from the quote from Wikipedia was

“Given that Scotland is not a sovereign state, it has no effective maritime boundaries; and any claims Scotland may assert are subsumed as part of claims made by the United Kingdom.”

Therefore any claims made by either party would need to be settled as part of the divorce.

I could also point out that only Westminster has the power to devolve the Union. A vote only in Scotland is meaningless.

(Stands well back and waits for the tartan backlash to begin!)

The Scots are always welcome in Manchester as they are so much cheaper than Chum.

Next Holyrood election will be close. Until recently it looked like labour as the biggest party, snp second, torys a poor third, Lib dems to disappear. Recently tho the snp have been making gains so looking very finely balanced now

Its unlikely the snp will get a majority tho – which means it will be very hard for them to get a referendum thru as all the other parties will block it.

Looks like more minority government in Scotland IMO.
What will lose it for labour is the quality of their front bench – its awful. Make the Westminster lot look charismatic and able

It’s not ‘Scots’, it is ‘Scotch.’

What is the mood of the people on this issue

Personally I would be delighted for there to be a referendum on Independence in Scotland. So long as if Scotland returned a “No” vote the SNP must instantly disband and forfeit any right to stand in any elections for the next 20 years.

From Wikipedia,

Little Englander.

Historically, and more accurately, the term indicated an anti-imperialist political stance dating from the time of the Second Boer War (1899–1902). The term then designated people who were against the British Empire and for “England” to extend no further than the borders of the United Kingdom.

The term “little England” predates its political usage; the expression “this little England” was used in the Gunpowder Day sermon of the English Puritan preacher Thomas Hooker

Well thank you TJ, I’m happy to be called ‘anti-imperialist’ and aligned with Thomas Hooker – but your calling me ‘ignorant’ smacks of a personal attack and is really quite unnecessary.

And you still haven’t answered the question of ‘Scottish by residency or English by ancestry’ 😉

j_me – Member
What majority ? The SNP are a minority “government”.

So they have managed thus far as a minority, I think that pretty good. Who helps them when they need a bit of support in parliment, for votes and debates. Do the other parties work with them on particular issues?

The bit that TJ left out from the quote

I was going to include that but after his ignorant crack about the hard of thinking I thought I would just leave him to it. Not worth talking to.

I really think Jez could do with having a read up on Udal law and the legitimacy of the Scottish claim to the Shetlands but in all honesty I cannot be arsed to read his response.

wiki reference fail. Sorry TJ.

Frankly, you can have the North Sea oil reserves – for what they have left.

Is it ‘flounce time’ yet 😆

mt — Yes they’ve run a minority government for a full term…..otherwise how could they justify NOT having had a referendum 😉 There have been some pretty major stumbling blocks, last year’s budget IIRC, but on the whole there is a much better spirit of cooperation in Holyrood than Westminster

mt.

Its been interesting. Labour will oppose all SNP policy even if its westminster labour policy as a matter of course. Makes them look very foolish and small minded. The SNP are mainly supported by the tories and lib dems on specific issues. The tories in particular have played their hand well and ended up with more influence then their few MSPs deserve.

There are also a couple of greens and a couple of independents IIRC. Teh SNP have lost very few votes on substantial matters but have had to compromise in some areas

From what I remember the last time a poll was done to show the support for a ‘divorce’ the majority of the Scottish population was in favour of retaining the current devolved arrangements.

Err no,the Westminster Government was so scared of a yes vote that they counted the people who did not vote as against it,so even though there was a clear majority in favour,nothing was done.

Zulu 11; that guy is English, if he was Scottish he would be supping Tennents Super. Porridge Wog? Could you please explain EXACTLY what you mean by that, I take it you use the word “wog” as an insult then?

Torminalis
the hard of thinking tag was not aimed at you – there are rather more obvious targets for that.

Teh legal stuff is all in line with international law on dividing up the seabed as well.

While its not been tested in court it very hard to argue that the areas agreed in UK law a that are in agreement with international law would not be considered to be a legal boundary

Polls show a clear majority for continuation of the current arrangements. Interestingly more folk support the SNP than support independence.

Duckman – a bit of confusion there with the last referendum on devolution in the 70s

Thanks for that tj, I reckon it sounds to be working well. Still cannot understand why everyone does not just say lets have a vote and get it over and done with.

TJ – you is like one of dem self-hating jews, innit?

I assumed it was to the 1979 vote he was referring.I quite enjoy it when somebody puts this topic forward.Lots of people shouting go,I don’t care…As they tend to do when it is suggested that anybody Welsh/Irish/Scottish may NOT be in favour of the union.
Oil is by nature a limited resource. The amount of fresh water and natural wind power we can have/produce may become much more of an issue,especially when we have to send it south of the border,which we have before.Or will we just see another “rough wooing,”as we did once before?
On a previous thread on separation, somebody quite seriously put forward the idea England should keep the oil for 10 years because English scientists had developed the technology for getting the stuff out.

In that case can we please have every bit of revenue that England made from the “British” Empire as it was Scottish soldiers who won it for you (and the Welsh in Zulu) 😀

My tuppence, Mainland UK is a one country now,deal with it.We are all more or less British…. Except for Iain Wright, he is a dick.I wish the SNP would have a vote,lose and then disband.

The old guy in that picture looks like Chris Bonnington!

Interestingly, the chap being used as a tug toy by the Alsatian is a Unionist, committed to the cause of keeping Scotland part of the UK, and to defending the Protestant King against all threats from popery, foreign and domestic. If you ask him nicely, he’ll even sing you a selection of songs extolling the virtues of being one of the Queen’s loyal subjects. Then one of his mates will stab you for “looking at him funny”.

In the event of an independence vote, we’re quite keen that chaps like this be allowed to follow their conscience and move south to honour their allegiance. We’re quite happy to keep a selection of shandy drinkers like TJ in return.

Have we paid back Westminster for the RBS bail-out yet ? Although perhaps we could just let them keep Fred.

I’ve always advocated independence for the South East. I reckon the rest of us could probably bump along quite nicely. No Ian Wright to worry about. or John Terry. He’s a dick too. Or Ashly Cole for that matter

Blimey! This is already starting to resemble a manifesto

I do wonder which bits of England would like to join with scotland. Northumberland? Carlisle?

Can the South East keep Katy Price and all her used up husbands too?

I looked this up a while back. I took figures from the Scots Parliamentd own website for the year 2004 (at that point the last year that figures where available).

It appears that the gap between what Scotland earned through internal taxation/trade and what she actually spent was 2.4 times LARGER than the oil revenue for that year. In other words, the oil money is simply making Scotland’s overspending a little less embarrassing than it would otherwise have been.
Certain Nationalists mentioned to me “what about the gas though?”

The gas is English, as sorted out by the acts that approved the Scots devolution in the first place.

Now, most Scots it seems are reluctant to withdraw from the Union, the irony is that more English folk actually WANT such a seperation!

hels – I’ve pointed out to TJ on a previous thread. With Alex Salmonds expressed desire to have the regulatory framework of Iceland, coupled with the corporation tax of Ireland, If us south of the border hadn’t have bailed out RBS, everyone except Fred Goodwin would now be living in mud huts, be bartering with chickens and killing each other for food. North sea oil revenue or not.

TJ won’t accept this because, between you and me…. *whispers*…. he’s not very bright

I still don’t Get why TJ is claiming the oil is Scottish, when clearly it belongs to the independent crown dependency of the Shetland Islands (1669 Act of Annexation)

also, does anyone here remember why Scotland joined in Union with England and Wales in 1707, wasn’t it to do with getting themselves in all sorts of financial mess and not being able to pay their bills that time 😉

“hels – Member
Have we paid back Westminster for the RBS bail-out yet ? Although perhaps we could just let them keep Fred.”

Have you payed back Westminter for the New Edinburgh bail out yet? The bail out that made the union possible.

I read in various papers that Fred has taken out a super injuction so we are not allowed to discuss his £600k/yr pension, the git.

Supose it’s a bit of history repeating (Shirley Bassy quote)

Well, there was all this financial speculation see, Lots of very rich Scots decided to play with their countrymens money and invest in this scheme called Darien….

Hmmm, so once again the rest of the Island of Britain has to bail out Scottish speculators and they whinge about the terms??? 😉

Ah I wondered when somebody would mention the Darien affair. Must you always throw that back in our faces ?? How many times do we have to apologise (sobs)

also, does anyone here remember why Scotland joined in Union with England and Wales in 1707, wasn’t it to do with getting themselves in all sorts of financial mess and not being able to pay their bills that time

Nothing to do with… The threat of all Scottish Merchants being expelled from England,trade taffifs on all Scottish goods,with threats of a Navy enforced blockade issued if Scotland did the same to English goods. And pressure put on other countries of Europe that they would recieve the same treatment if they continued to buy Scottish Goods (linen trade in Poland one example)then? Ok fine.

As for Darien,mentioning that it was the English Navy who turned back vessels with supplies(at the behest of your government)might give your story balance.(Mind you I don’t know what they thought the four wig makers who made the trip were going to do) England picked their moment,no doubt about it.

Does pointing this out that make me an uppity wog, Massa Zulu 11?