Dont you have to pay if you get coptered off in europe?

And is IS called “self insuring”.

As samurai says its about risk, do you want to go through what hes gone through? (And didnt his house policy cover it?)

my 5 cents….

i have insurance as i have a bike on the CTW scheme which requires teh bike to be insured – as the MTB is on the house insurance the CTW bike is insured seperatly, this is about £6 a month and includes public liablity and 3rd party etc.

if i didnt cycle to work 2/3 times a day i wouldnt have it (or the bike), however i think its worth the £6, not only does it protect others (if i hit them) & theft of the bike, but it also protects me against other road users wether they are insured or not.

i have insurance as i have a bike on the CTW scheme which requires teh bike to be insured

Why on earth don’t you save your £72 a year and cover it on the house insurance? 😯

it also protects me against other road users wether they are insured or not.

Their insurance protects you if they’re insured, the MIB if not. Congratulations at preventing the poor insurance companies from going bust.

There are many ‘conflicts’ of interest going on here, but for me road-use insurance catagories are:

Road Traffic Act
Damage I do to others, their person, but not their possessions
3rd party
Damage I do to others and their possessions that is my fault
Comprehensive
Damage done to my possessions either accidentally by me or by the fault of a 3rd party

AFAIK – only the first is a legality to drive a vehicle on the road, with possessional (sic) damage not needed to be covered – or included as a ‘bond’ on the Insurance market.

Consequentially, I don’t see why cyclists (or pedestrians) should be concerned, as its incredible rare that we cause other people damage.

And as TJ points out, most self-insure (whether the majority of us either understand or consider it I’m unsure) – in that if we screw-up we’ll take it on the chin – or accept the consequences.

Why on earth don’t you save your £72 a year and cover it on the house insurance?

Depends on your house insurance/where you live/type of house etc etc etc. Some will charge extra per bike. In some cases it might work out cheaper to have separate insurance. For me, like many, the M&S insurance to include all bike makes sense but not for everybody. Impossible to make sweeping statements like yours without knowing all the facts.

Why on earth don’t you save your £72 a year and cover it on the house insurance?

Their insurance protects you if they’re insured, the MIB if not.

As i said the mtb is covered under the house insurance – it takes up all of the cover allocated to bikes, and more @ £3500 so i already pay an extra £4. i could put the CTW bike under a named item, however it’d cost me more over all and from experiance id rather be protected from all forms of cover on the road which the house insurance would not.
The MTB does not get used for commuting, and if it were to be stolen it’d be form the house – hense covering it under the house insurance.
In addition, my CTW scheme may be a little different to yours – it was a must in the small print to get seperate, dediacted bike insurance (not house insurance).
Also from experiance i’d rather have it this way. It may not work for every one, but it works for me and £6 a month is not much for peice of mind when you work/commute in bristol (bike crime capital of the UK).

Depends on your house insurance/where you live/type of house etc etc etc. Some will charge extra per bike. In some cases it might work out cheaper to have separate insurance. For me, like many, the M&S insurance to include all bike makes sense but not for everybody. Impossible to make sweeping statements like yours without knowing all the facts.

The person I was responding to already has another bike covered under house insurance. In any case, I’d love to see an example of where it’s cheaper to insure a bike separately to house insurance – when I looked it was a huge amount more expensive to insure separately, even with the contents insurance I used to have which did charge per bike. I’ve yet to see a single example of covering bicycles under contents insurance being more expensive. So it is a perfectly reasonable sweeping statement to make.

As i said the mtb is covered under the house insurance – it takes up all of the cover allocated to bikes (£3500).

Strange insurance to cover that way – all of those I’ve seen cover all items up to a certain value and require you to itemise anything above that rather than a blanket amount for items of a certain type. Who is that with?

i could put it under a named item, however, from experiance id rather be protected from all forms of cover on the road.

All forms of cover in what way? My contents insurance covers my bike for all risk, hence will pay up if I damage it. Contents insurance also provides 3rd party cover as standard (as I’m sure yours will). What other form of insurance do I need?

In addition, my CTW scheme may be a little different to yours – it was a must to get seperate, dediacted bike insurance (not house insurance).

I’ve seen CTW schemes demanding insurance which is fair enough – I’m not convinced it’s even legal for them to demand you have separate insurance which doesn’t also cover other things, given the cover provided for a bicycle under contents insurance is just the same as that provided by a stand-alone policy. Does it really specify in the terms that it doesn’t count if it’s covered under some other blanket policy? Or is it just that it has to be covered whilst in use outside the house (as my policy does)?

£6 a month is not much for peice of mind when you work/commute in bristol (bike crime capital of the UK).

£72 a year is quite a lot for something you could get a lot cheaper (and for double insuring), irrespective of where you live.

And there are policies which limit the number of bikes on it free or limit the value of bikes covered free.

You want an example…me…a few year ago I lived in a house that had a history of flooding and had been burgled in the past. Getting an insurer at all was a nightmare. There was a £350pa difference between the cheapest happy to cover and one that also covered my bikes. The cheapest one was cheapest for the house and contents but the extra to add the bikes was extortionate. £70odd for bike insurance plus the cheapest house and contents policy combined was mathematically the most efficient decision. As I say, you are making sweeping generalisations without knowing all the facts, thinking primarily that everyone is just like you in terms of circumstances.

Insured with the AA -had to phone up and argue the case originaly.

All forms of cover in what way?

pretty much, you name it, it covers it…Legals, if i get hurt or hurt another, stuff like if i brake a part its insured – silly i know. There is also a RAC/AA style brakedown recovery, for a little extra.

Does it really specify in the terms that it doesn’t count if it’s covered under some other blanket policy?

it was an additional bit of small print my comapny added after other employies had bikes stolen on house insurance and had issues with lack of cover – i’m guessing it was problems with paying excess, only replacing for a similar bike (not the exact make etc) or only replacing for 2nd hand value not old for new.
The Admin dept even phoned me to confirm id insured it with a company other than my house insurance and took the details – it is their bike, not mine, after all.

£72 a year is quite a lot for something you could get a lot cheaper (and for double insuring), irrespective of where you live.

TBH i never thought of that – when i eventually get around to buying the bike from work, i’ll proberly do that.

I agree with tj, where does it end, dog walking insurance? Pram pushing insurance? Supermarket trolly pushing insurance? Walking to the shop to buy a paper insurance?
Really….. 🙄

pretty much, you name it, it covers it…Legals, if i get hurt or hurt another, stuff like if i brake a part its insured – silly i know.

All the stuff covered by my contents insurance then (and apart from breaking bike bits, covered by most if not all contents insurance – the breaking bike bits covered if you have all risks under contents). You’re double insuring.

it was an additional bit of small print my comapny added

Fairy nuff – very specific to your case then (I’m still not sure such a clause is strictly legal).

(And didnt his house policy cover it?)

Apparently not. Theft yes, liability, no.

Road Traffic Act
Damage I do to others, their person, but not their possessions

The road traffic act also covers damage to possessions. It is this that I am being threatened with.

I can understand why some people would pay for it, but i carnt see paperboys or the oap who just uses his bike to go to the shop or down to his alotment thinking its a good idea.
I wouder how much a insurance company would want to insure my 3yr old grandson on his bike as he rides up and down the pavements.

cynic-al:

Self insurance is a risk management method in which a calculated amount of money is set aside to compensate for the potential future loss.

Self insurance is less readily available for individuals because individuals rarely gain sufficient cost-savings on small premiums to justify specialised self-insurance captives, interventions and negotiations with insurers. However, many small businesses are now using self-insurance mechanisms such as cell captives and rent-a-captives with considerable success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_insurance

5 years ago I paid £65 for own damage road bike insurance for my new road bike.

6 months later dozy driver pulls out and doesn’t see me…

After police reports he is not insured – I make a claim and minus £20 excess I am given a cheque for £1000 for my new Trek 5000 at the time.

Also a CTC member regarding 3rd party insurance.

Accidents do happen – so peace of mind third party insurance minimum should be a choice.

If TJ decides not to, then thats his choice. Shouldn’t be forced on him unless it becomes law.

Or you could have got compensation from here

http://www.mib.org.uk/Customer+Services/en/Making+a+claim/default.htm

The road traffic act also covers damage to possessions. It is this that I am being threatened with.

Ah, so RTA insurance has changed (1988 by the looks of it), as it use to only include the person, not vehicle (etc).

http://www.fearofcrime.co.uk/Appendix.pdf

Decent point about the MIB, you’re paying for it already through a slice of your premiums (assuming you buy car insurance).

Apparently not. Theft yes, liability, no.

So you have contents insurance which doesn’t cover you for public liability, samuri? Which company is that, as I’ve not come across one which doesn’t?

Bascially when I hear an ‘insurance’ company say that I should have ‘insurance’ then I smell a rat.

Similar to when bike companies say I need a tapered headtube, pressfit bb, maxled, 10 speed bike to do the trails that I’ve been doing for years without feeling the need….

Thanks ned

So you have contents insurance which doesn’t cover you for public liability, samuri? Which company is that, as I’ve not come across one which doesn’t?

It was Churchill. I changed it immediately to AA which does and I have CTC now also.

Are you sure?
http://www.churchill.com/home-insurance/contents-insurance.htm

Public liability £2,000,000

http://www.churchill.com/home/home-insurance-policy-chh156.pdf – page 14, section 2G – cycling not excluded (interestingly it also appears not to exclude model aircraft – I belong to BMFA to cover me for that).

Not having a go – trying to help. It would seem that you’ve been misinformed or fobbed off. Your insurance should cover it.

I had a number of conversations with them and with the CTC lawyers about this.
The consensus was, my fault and damage to property only…. I pay.

The consensus was, my fault and damage to property only…. I pay.

That’s not what that policy document says:
“We will pay all amounts you become legally responsible for as
… a private
person as a result of an accident which happens during the
period of cover if:
…
 property is lost or damaged anywhere in the world during the
period of cover”
“We will also pay all costs and legal fees for defending you”

That quite clearly covers you for damage caused to a car by you accidentally running into it – unless of course there’s something you’re not telling us.

Of course the insurance company say they’re not liable, that’s standard policy! I’m more disappointed by the CTC not advising you properly. From the sounds of things your insurance company is trying to wriggle out on one of two possible grounds:
It was your fault – but that isn’t excluded unless you did it deliberately (otherwise public liability insurance would be pointless, as you only claim against it when something is your fault).
It was only damage to property, no injuries – but damage to property is specifically covered separately to injuries, there is no link between the two; you don’t need to have injured somebody to be covered for damage to property.

I’d suggest you contact Churchill again, but you need to follow their complaint procedure as outlined on page 36. From the sounds of things
you’ll have to take it to the ombudsman to get anywhere, but you need to follow Churchill’s complaints procedure before the ombudsman will look at it.

IANAL, and I’d suggest you get proper legal advice on this, apart from that it sounds like the CTC lawyers know less than I do (I’m not sure if it’s something a company like bikeline would take on – though it wouldn’t do any harm to ask).

Hope you can resolve this, good luck – unless you’re being economical with the truth I can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be covered, you just need to fight your insurance company to get what you’re entitled to.

Why not get insured as a pedestrian too?

I agree with tj, where does it end, dog walking insurance? Pram pushing insurance? Supermarket trolly pushing insurance? Walking to the shop to buy a paper insurance?
Really…..

Me too – insurance is self perpetuating, if you are out riding with your mates & some / one of you crashes the likely hood is that you wouldn’t try & sue each other. However, if one of the injured has an insurance policy that covers injury/loss of earnings & gets a payout then the insurance company is gonna be looking to get their money back & will possibly try & pin the blame somewhere 🙁 So you all then have to be insured 🙁

you’ll have to take it to the ombudsman to get anywhere, but you need to follow Churchill’s complaints procedure before the ombudsman will look at it.

Thanks. I’ve already done this both with Churchill and with the drivers insurance company who have been extremely unprofessional the entire way through the process (and who have claimed a 500 pound car is worth 1500 quid). Last response from the ombusman is that they are very busy and don’t expect a response to either until the new year.

I didn’t tell you that I admitted blame at the scene which Churchill definately had a problem with but that shouldn’t detract from the insurance principles. Should it?

The CTC lawyer (and bearing in mind I wasn’t covered by the CTC at the time), was fairly dismissive. Their response was try and negotiate a deal with the drivers insurers, make an offer (rejected).

The CTC lawyer (and bearing in mind I wasn’t covered by the CTC at the time), was fairly dismissive. Their response was try and negotiate a deal with the drivers insurers, make an offer (rejected).

Yeah I found them a bit vague, I got passed from person to person and nobody seemed to really be sure about anything.

Luckily my household contents insurance picked it up instead, so, so relieved, would have lept for joy when I read the little clause if I could have! And it was only a Honda… I reckon a beemer could have been £3k or so.

Why not get insured as a pedestrian too?

Unless you are a very, very fast walker who walks siwing fists like a propeller I can’t see you doing a lot of damage to anything/anyone. It is pretty amazing the damage you and a bike can do to a car at commuting speed though, trust me!

The CTC lawyer (and bearing in mind I wasn’t covered by the CTC at the time), was fairly dismissive. Their response was try and negotiate a deal with the drivers insurers, make an offer (rejected).

Not terribly helpful. Did he even look at your policy document to determine you were covered? I just can’t see any way looking at the standard public liability terms there that you couldn’t be covered – on what exact grounds are they denying the claim?

Admitting blame at the scene is something the ins cos don’t like you doing, but it makes no difference to your cover – it’s not the same as admitting liability. Are they also trying to wriggle out on that?

Have you also tried CAB?

They said the policy doesn’t cover accidental damage to property. They may have mentioned about it not being on my property too, can’t remember now.

That was twice from a service desk operative and once from someone apparently higher up the food chain.

I raised a complaint and they responded very quickly to confirm my policy didn’t cover me for this complete with a booklet on how to raise complaints to the Ombudsman.

Not tried the CAB but I expect their response will be the official complaints path.

They said the policy doesn’t cover accidental damage to property. They may have mentioned about it not being on my property too, can’t remember now.

You have the same policy booklet as I linked and quoted above? The one which pretty explicitly states that it does cover for those things?

“property is lost or damaged anywhere in the world during the
period of cover”

Did you put in a claim and have it rejected, or was this just “informal” conversations? Did you quote them the terms from your policy I’ve quoted above?

Not that it’s a lot of help now, but in the long term I don’t see any way in which your insurance company can get away without being forced to pay up given those terms, now you’ve got the ombudsman involved.

CAB will almost certainly tell you to use the official complaints path you’re already in, but they may be able to give you a bit of extra advice about the exact meaning of the wording in your policy booklet, and maybe some help with pursuing your complaint (I have no idea of the procedure involved). If nothing else I’d expect you to trust them far more than some random on the internet! Can’t do any harm.

Good luck.