Cotic Rocket update from Cy

recently had a conversation with a mate returning to the fold. What became apparent is the laughable idea of the “standard”;

wheel size; 26, 650b, 29
steerer; straight, tapered, 1.5″, 44mm
axles; 9mm, 12mm, 15mm, 20mm, 135, 142
BB’s; BSA, BB30, PF30
gears; 1x or 2x, 9,10,11 (and explain why the more expensive bike has fewer gears)
disc; 6 bolt, centrelock

I just bought a new bike last week, it has :
135mm and 170mm QR wheels, a tapered headtube with external headsets (don’t know which one), a seatpost of some size or other, some 31.8 bars and stem and a 100mm BSA threaded BB.

I’ll probably be able to find spares for most of those parts for many many years to come even if some of them are so far from standard that they’re sub niches within a very niche niche. Bit like buying a car, I didn’t buy the C-max and worry that the boxes of spare parts for my MG Midget were ‘obsolete’. I’ll just buy bit’s that fit the C-max as and when they wear out. Just replace C-max with O-O Fatty and MG midet with El-Mariachi Singlespeed.

wrecker – Member
What do you think of the Stanton Switchback Brant?
Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to be inline with your thoughts on HT geo?
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Never looked before but like the look of those.
But limited for bigger lads wanting a saddle up ride but covers a lot of riders well.

deluded – Member

We had 29’rs before 27.5! It seemed clear to me that wheel sizes were in play for change a lot longer than just over a year. And again, I wasn’t just referring to wheel sizes.

It’s a thread largely about the untimely death of the 26 inch wheel. 29ers don’t really come into it, nor other things that aren’t wheels.

dunmail – good points.

I’m sticking with conglomerate though – to form or gather into a mass or whole.

😀

It’s a thread largely about the untimely death of the 26 inch wheel. 29ers don’t really come into it, nor other things that aren’t wheels.

I think the discussion took on a broader note.

I’m sticking with conglomerate though – to form or gather into a mass or whole.

Conglomerate always reminds me of the rock type which is basically a mess of unrelated components stuck together. Mind you have you seen this … 8)

You have to remember the UK is a small place and behind on the curve. The US which drives these things moved wheel size a long time ago. I went riding over there with people in 29ers in 2006.

I’ve no idea what Cotic’s sales are outside of the UK, but if you even want to consider it, then 26″ is not an option.

You have to remember the UK is a small place and behind on the curve

I don’t think we’re behind the curve at all. The internet lets us see what is going on everywhere in real time.
We are different, and less open to marketing than the mericans though.

I’ve no idea what Cotic’s sales are outside of the UK

A surprising number in Germany. Mostly 26in afaict. For a country where 29er probably could make more sense. Quite a few On-One’s too.
Never seen a 650b/27.5 ever (apart from one when I was in Scotland).

.. and less open to marketing than the mericans though

Not sure about that, if there’s any generalisation maybe we just respond to different marketing. You could say other markets are more open-minded. I wouldn’t, but it’s just a different way of seeing the same thing. The UK is certainly different to the bigger markets of Europe and the US, less so now that 5-10 years ago maybe, even so we don’t always see the current general trends favourably because of that.

The UK is certainly different to the bigger markets of Europe and the US, less so now that 5-10 years ago maybe, even so we don’t always see the current general trends favourably because of that.

I think we just destroy forks and drivechains quicker though. Remember Sam Hill’s comments about the Schladming (or was it Champery) WC?

Steve Jones: “So do you ride in the rain at home”
Sam (straight faced after destroying the competion in the worst conditions ever, and who’d mostly had dry runs) : “no, it’d get my bike muddy”

Maybe a new bike for the sake of it makes sense if you have no other cost’s involved. But if you’re in the UK you buy into stuff for other reasons, stuff that lasts, nowhere else ‘does’ hardcore HT’s in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren’t on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago. We didn’t do expensive bikes because we were too busy forking out every other week for a new chain. We adopted 29ers in the same way, rigid niche singlespeeds like the Swift and inbred that were great for bombing about on muddy singletrack, while the rest of the world was pumping out carbon XC-race exotica.

We are different, and less open to marketing than the mericans though.

Don’t agree with that at all. From what I see, outside the vocal minority on here we are more then open to marketing which is why the market is quite happy to ignore those that make such a fuss about the change (but, for the most part have no real intention of buying a new bike anyway) and sell bucket loads of the ‘next big thing’ to those that want to buy.

From what I understand America took to 29ers as they suit the terrain they generally ride over there.

Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.

Not sure about that, FS have been in the majority round here for going on 10 yrs with plenty about before that.

nowhere else ‘does’ hardcore HT’s in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren’t on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.

STW really isn’t a representative sample of the UK cycling public. To suggest that FS bikes were rare and Inbreds common 5 years ago is to ignore what’s actually been going on.

I had a FS seventeen years ago and they weren’t that rare then.

TINAS, I mean the way we like LT HTs and smaller wheels generally speaking (edit, or used to?), so no suprise that a global move away from 26″ will be least popular here. Prioritising tech ability over light weight etc – not all of us, but a lot more so than Europe and probably as a higher % of riders than in the US overall (depends where in the US). The UK seems closer to Canadian tastes after the LT HT Canadian thing in the late 90s that really took off here, Konas, Coves and Chameleons. Certainly there were a number of those with 1×8, Azonic bars + 60mm stems, 110mm Z1s and 2.35 tyres + D521s among our riding group in ’98. Not that much different to current hardtails really.

no suprise that a global move away from 26″ will be least popular here.

Outside the walls of internet forums I just don’t think that’s the case though. I know a lot of people who ride and none of them get worked up in the slightest about the demise of 26″. Most think it’s a good excuse to change bikes.

nowhere else ‘does’ hardcore HT’s in partuclarly steel ones, whereas 5-10 years ago you could turn upto some STW rides and stick out like a sore thumb if you weren’t on a Dialled PA or Inbred. Even FS was a novelty in the UK untill 5 yeas ago.
STW really isn’t a representative sample of the UK cycling public. To suggest that FS bikes were rare and Inbreds common 5 years ago is to ignore what’s actually been going on.

Indeed, that doesn’t in any way shape or form represent the riding scene I’ve seen and been involved in around Aberdeen. Maybe 15 years ago full suspension was rare, 10 not so much and in the last 5 years its probably the norm. All the enthusiast riders I know have been on full suspension only for more than 10 years now. I think you might be confusing the Uk riding scene with around where you live, the same way folk do when suggesting particular gearing set-ups are “all you need for Uk riding”.

So 26″ is dead after all?! am disappoint 😥

chestrockwell – Member

Outside the walls of internet forums I just don’t think that’s the case though. I know a lot of people who ride and none of them get worked up in the slightest about the demise of 26″. Most think it’s a good excuse to change bikes.

Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.

I was all set to buy a new disc road bike this year, but the inevitable new standards stampede means I’m not going to bother.

You’re right about full sussers though – I remember hordes of Marin riding, bearded, Ron Hill wearers stampeding majestically across the moors round here many, many years ago.
🙂

The most popular bike I see round here is the Orange 5 – I’m pretty much guaranteed to meet at least one every weekend ride.

Outside the walls of internet forums I just don’t think that’s the case though

I’d tend to agree, forums are skewed but a number of posters must be representational. And ‘least popular’ is relative, not meant as ‘in general’.

Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.

Judging by your behaviour on here I’d contend that anyone who isn’t bloody annoyed about it keeps their mouth shut for fear of you boring them to death….

Most of the people I know are pretty bloody annoyed about it and have put off buying bikes because of it.

Hasn’t effected anyone I know. One bought a 26″, two others a 29″ and I bought a 27.5″. Really feel people are getting their knickers in a right twister over this personally.

😀

I haven’t started a wheel size thread for as long as I can remember.
(EDIT – over a year. This one, if you missed it. )

I’ve never had a pop at any individual for their choice of bike purchase.

I fully support the smaller bike manufacturers – have no problem with fatbikes, 29’ers or alternative solutions to existing problems.

I’ve heard no rational answer to the points I’ve made re the unnecessary rapaciousness of the major manufacturers, so I’ll continue stating my point of view until someone stops me from doing so.

If you don’t like my posts, I’m sure you could either find a way to block them so you don’t have to read them or just ignore them.

Thanks for your opinion, I shall be certain to bear it in mind in future.
🙂

I’ve heard no rational answer to the points I’ve made re the unnecessary rapaciousness of the major manufacturers,

PARKLIFE!!

STW really isn’t a representative sample of the UK cycling public. To suggest that FS bikes were rare and Inbreds common 5 years ago is to ignore what’s actually been going on.

I don’t agree, I reckon the first really popular FS bikes were the monocoque enduro and the stumpjumper that folowed it, then the Giant VT? So that’s 2002 onwards, and even then I remember people having them but they were the minority in any group and didn’t ride them as much as their HT’s.

Still seems like only the last 5 years or so when you could go out for a ride and be in the minority on a hardtail. And that still coencided with me moving from the Peaks to Berkshire, when I went back upto North Yorkshire 26″ hardtails seemed to be the prefered choice again.

And you can shut up as well……
🙂

The advent of 650 has delayed my next mtb purchase a bit

Now waiting for the collapse/abandonment of 29″, when I’ll bag me a bargin (a bit like those oranges the other day)

Now waiting for the collapse/abandonment of 29″

Not gonna happen.

Can’t believe we’re talking about this, poor Cy, again. 😳

Still seems like only the last 5 years or so when you could go out for a ride and be in the minority on a hardtail. And that still coencided with me moving from the Peaks to Berkshire, when I went back upto North Yorkshire 26″ hardtails seemed to be the prefered choice again.

There has been some degree of mountain biking occurring in other locations during the period involving folk you’ve not met though, so your experiences might not be entirely representative of Uk MTBing as a whole.

You’ve really got to feel for Cy and the Cotic team. The Rocket statement earlier this week and now the Soul275 paint issues:
http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/

I’d tend to agree, forums are skewed but a number of posters must be representational. And ‘least popular’ is relative, not meant as ‘in general’.

Problem with forums is that those that strongly believe something (e.g. 650b bad, 26″ good) shout down those who think differently. You don’t see many defending 650b now, I guess they just went out and bought what they wanted instead of being shouted at and poked fun at on here.

I don’t have a 650b btw and after testing a couple have no intention of getting one any time soon.

Who’s shouting?

I’m happy to participate in a rational debate about the wheelsize issue.
Be nice if those in the bike industry or media declare their interest, just so we all know where we stand.

The only abuse I’ve seen regarding this issue was a year or so ago when an industry type speculated that the reason I was so anti was that someone else was shagging my wife. 😀

No comments are directed at specific individuals and can be related to any number of threads. Point being every forum has strong personalities with strong views. Many people just read threads without comment or back off when they get shouted down. That does not make forums such as this representative of UK MTBers on every issue IMO, 650b being a prime example.

get a room you two

What size?

Twin or double?

The three main wheel sizes will continue.
650b has become the default size for new bikes and 29ers are firmly established but trials, dirt jump etc will likely stick with 26 for a while meaning they’ll be stuff available but on different websites to the one you’ve used in the past.
Likewise suppliers like Superstar will I’m sure continue to stock a limited range of 26 inch stuff, they’d be daft not to given the number of 26 inch bikes out there.

My own experience. Built a 650b HT in the summer, rode it back to back with the 26 inch one I already had….sold the 650b one, it just wasn’t as much fun to ride, far more of a steamroller and I like faster handling more playful HTs.

I have however built up a 650b FS, the wheel size seems perfect fit that kind of bike, long travel Enduro style bikes for ploughing through things and carrying as much speed as possible.

Defending 650b? Who needs to they are just getting on and riding them. I was 6 months early buying my 26″ bike – it was a bargain but if I’d waited a little longer I would have gone 650. Why it’s replaced 26″ at that end completely. I can still buy stuff for 26 and I can get 650 wheels in my frame.

I spend a bit of time in my mates shop (not in the UK which is obviously special) and apart from the odd joke about the legacy/old tech nobody really comments on it. He doesn’t need to explain that this 650 thing is x,y or z to people. They come in ride round on some bikes come back and maybe demo them. If they like them they buy them. It’s not dented sales it’s not changed what people are doing.

All the UK doesn’t fall for the marketing BS is frankly BS anyway. Throw in the top comments of “I’ve ridden a 650b bike and I didn’t like it” or “I tried that there 29r lark it’s rubbish” shows a massively closed mind. When it comes to getting a new bike I will ride what is around see what I like and pick the bike I want, the size of the wheels will be irrelevant, the quality of the ride will be important.