Rules are rules and UCI should enforce them or change them.
There are riders who don’t dope – they don’t win GTs, they don’t get big contracts.

Don Simon your faith in the Spanish cycling authorities to go after their best asset is touching though I fear missplaced. They been trying as hard as contador to get out of this, and they have previous. They only booked Valverde after they were basically forced to do so.

I accept that your relationship and working knowledge of the RFEC will give you a greater insight than me. Don Carlos Castaño will have made his decision based on the evidence and not hearsay and will support the rider as being innocent until proven guilty. He will not have risked his reputation as president on the short term gains that one cyclist would give him, even if that cyclist is Contador, there are other Spanish cyclists who could win the Tour. There are examples of cyclists who have been caught doping and quietly banned, no support, no excuses.

It seems highly unlikely that Contador ingested clenbuterol from consuming beef as its not licensed to be used on animals for human consumption in Europe, in any case he would be more likely to be contaminated if he ate cattle liver that could cause lung problems anyway, so if he has been using clenbuterol then he is very foolish as it can cause serious health problems never mind the cheating.

Are you accusing him of consciously using or ingesting by accident? Is he foolish for using a product which could give him health problems? I agree, this would be foolish and probably unlikely. Or did he ingest accidently, which would comply with the story and contradict any deliberate doping allegation?
It is also a little naïve to think that there is no possibility of clem entering the food chain, especially here. Are all the UK farms that sell green top milk authorised? Or can you op down to your local farm and get a couple of pints of raw milk? Same difference between the official line and reality, no?

Rules are rules and UCI should enforce them or change them.

Did he actually break the rules as he tested at levels significantly lower than UCI test for? And therefore is being found positive through incorrect testing? I may be wrong here though.

don simon, no the tests they previously used would not of found that concentration of the drug, but the UCI and WADA guidelines say that anything over 0% is illegal

Fair enough… 😆

ir12daveor
You’ve got to be kidding me! How naive are you? Have you read any of “Wiggo’s” statements regarding Lance and Landis?

What so you think Wiggins is a doper? any evidence there fella?
Yes I have read statements, that basically say he’ll believe Armstrong innocent until proven guilty and that Landis has questionable credability. Thats about right isn’t it? He’s entitled to an opinion as much as you or me. To say that he’s guilty of doping based on his opinion is a pretty big stretch.
If all the Pro riders that don’t support Landis are also guilty of doping thats a hell of a lot of riders!

Was it not Wiggins calling for all testing data to be made public? doesn’t sound like a doper to me…..

What about Lance going to his grave knowing that he was clean?

You’ve invented mind bleach?

Was it not Wiggins calling for all testing data to be made public? doesn’t sound like a doper to me…..

Surely that can’t be evidence of innocence either? Lance is known to be guilty of doping yet has been able to stay ahead of the testers and not tested positive and here is Wiggins using the same argument. Is it not possible that a doper is so confident that the testing methods are so far behind the doping that the results can be posted. Dopers are not going to dope in the knowledge that they ar going to be caught. I am not accusing Wiggins of doping, just saying innocent until proven guilty. Lance is innocent until proven guilty, Landis has confessed his guilt, Contador is guilty, Wiggins is innocent, etc….

It is fairly pointless working down the peloton trying to decide when the clean riders start but it is a shame that from now on any great performances are more likely to attract suspicion rather than applause. I’d support life time bans as well, it’s the only disincentive big enough to stop most younger riders (currently it’s almost down to the level of take the risk and get a pro contract or ride clean and it’s unlikely they’ll get a contract unless they’re exceptionally gifted). A talented sub 25-yr old rider can easily get over a 2 year ban and still have a career (it’s not like teams aren’t picking up past-banned riders).

And given the doping can lead to health issues and even death it’s not an acceptable solution to just accept doping and say they’re all doing it so it’s a level playing field.

did wiggins ride really well in the tour one year, then change teams and ride less really well?

just saying like 😯

Surely that can’t be evidence of innocence either?

I wasn’t using it as a postition of innocence, as said it doesn;t sound like a doper.

I believe innocent until proven guilty, if guilty then a tougher punishment. One that will actully make the dopers stop and think.

Wiggins has always spoken against dopers in the past. He now sits on the fence more. Thats more likely to do with his media empire sponsor than anything else.

So you’re comparing yourself to the fittest men in the world?

yes obviously well spotted I could compete in the tour I just find office work and talking on here so much more rewarding.
I think even professional athletes get tired …iirc exerting yourself is tiring

I think that if you took out dopers and shot them it still wouldn’t put them all off, except posthumously.

There is a problem with the UCI being in charge of promoting the sport and policing it at the same time (and accepting large bribes, sorry I mean donations, from star riders)

Wiggins media empire sponsor won’t be insisting that Kimmage sits on the fence next Sunday

I’d support life time bans as well, it’s the only disincentive big enough to stop most younger riders

I agree, but there are numerous issues with this relating to false positives, genuine mistakes, ensuring all riders are tested with the same frequency (if you only test the top riders you leave the lower order open to doping), keeping up with the current doping advances etc. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if the riders refused to ride at first.

Good point nostoc. Nothing I can add to your post.

Don Carlos Castaño will have made his decision based on the evidence and not hearsay and will support the rider as being innocent until proven guilty. He will not have risked his reputation as president on the short term gains that one cyclist would give him, even if that cyclist is Contador, there are other Spanish cyclists who could win the Tour

What grounds do you have for making this assertion?
I’ll not bite on the sarcastic comments regarding my relationship, or lack thereof, with the RFEC, except to say I don’t have one. Do you? You seem to consider yourself to be in a position to make authoritative statements about the conduct and moral fortitude of it’s president.

By the way he was quoted as follows when the investigation was referred to the Spanish authorities:

“My hope is that this matter will be favourable to the sportsman,”
“I’ve known him since he was in the junior teams and I can’t help but put myself in his position.”

Doesn’t sound very impartial to me. Looks like the most favourable outcome he thought he could get away with is a 1 year ban instead of 2.

I’ll not bite on the sarcastic comments regarding my relationship, or lack thereof, with the RFEC, except to say I don’t have one. Do you? You seem to consider yourself to be in a position to make authoritative statements about the conduct and moral fortitude of it’s president.

Yes.

Anything to say about his statements to the press stating that he hopes to find in favour of the sportsman?

What else do you expect him to say, at a time before the official results have been released? He’s a plolitician. It’s also the RFEC that has banned him based on the evidence. I see no wrong doing on the part of the RFEC, but then again I might be a teensy weensy bit biased. 😉

100! In yer face Fred!!! 😉

I expect him to make an statement that they will fully investigate the case impartially and without bias toward an outcome either for or against the sportsman.

And do you think the outcome has been favourable to the sportsman?

Regardless of your fitness and if your one if the fittest (cycling) in the world, you can still have an off day!

Personally I don’t think Andy S or Lance have ever doped, but thats my opinion. I didn’t think Contador had cheated, but in doing so has tainted last years tour.

There will be debates till the cows come home over certain riders and doping. Personally I say clean until proven guilty. How many people last tour thought contador was doping!

As for Andy C improving alot on TTing. A year working on TTing is plenty to build on it. Contador wasn’t built for it but he was still pretty dam fast. Peaople have a niave view on here, but eveyone is entitled to an opinion. Lets hope this years tour doesnt find out anymore doping riders!

And do you think the outcome has been favourable to the sportsman?

Yes. I think they have given him the minimum punishment they thought they could get away with politically.
Contador has presented an excuse that is theoretically possible but with no actual evidence to back it up, by rights he should be getting the standard 2 years.

Contador has presented an excuse that is theoretically possible but with no actual evidence to back it up, by rights he should be getting the standard 2 years.

I’m not sure that’s how it works, the ban is given in accordance with the proven, committed crime, no? If there is no actual evidence to doping, he can’t be banned for doping. And why not the minimum? Isn’t that what most people try to do? Is see quite a lot of threads on here about people wanting to get out of paying parking fines or speeding tickets, of course Contador’s lawyer was going to push for the lightest ban possible. Don’t forget Alberto still has some time to appeal and CAS still has an opportunity to extend the ban, or are they part of the conspiracy?
You have your opinion and I have mine. 😆

Are you accusing him of consciously using or ingesting by accident? Is he foolish for using a product which could give him health problems? I agree, this would be foolish and probably unlikely. Or did he ingest accidently, which would comply with the story and contradict any deliberate doping allegation?
It is also a little naïve to think that there is no possibility of clem entering the food chain, especially here. Are all the UK farms that sell green top milk authorised? Or can you op down to your local farm and get a couple of pints of raw milk? Same difference between the official line and reality, no?

Not naive just being realistic, seeing as Contador has nutritionists and has a tightly controlled diet is highly unlikely that food (beef) is to blame, perhaps he used a drug that is some form of derivative of Clenbuterol designed to fool the doping control. Yes illegal meat does enter the food chain but I doubt his entourage or team would use a dodgy supplier. Perhap we are bein naive thinking Contador is clean like many other top names.

He has been banned for doping. Strict liability means he is guilty, no ifs, no buts. His excuse is just mitigation.

I wouldn’t expect Contador’s lawyer to do anything other than push for a shorter ban. I wouldn’t necessarily expect the federation to go along with it.

I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an appeal to CAS from both Contador and WADA.

He has been banned for doping.

He’s been banned for testing positive for a banned substance being present and not for illegally taking a banned substance to enhance his performance, there’s a difference and therefore he’s been banned in accordance.

He’s been banned for testing positive for a banned substance being present and not for illegally taking a banned substance to enhance his performance, there’s a difference and therefore he’s been banned in accordance.

No, there isn’t a difference.
The offence is (from WADA):

2.1 The presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in an Athlete’s Sample

Strict liability is enforced. Intent is irrelevant in determining the offence committed.

They allow for mitigation:

However, the Athlete then has the possibility to avoid or reduce sanctions if the Athlete can demonstrate that he or she was not at fault or significant fault (Article 10.5 (Elimination or Reduction of Period of Ineligibility Based on Exceptional Circumstances)) or in certain circumstances did not intend to enhance his or her sport performance

So really it hinges on whether you believe Contador’s excuse. He hasn’t presented any real evidence that there ever was any tainted meat, and the burden of proof is on the athlete. I don’t believe it. In my opinion he is bang to rights and should be punished accordingly.

edit: here’s the WADAlink for anyone who might want to have a poke around the rules.

Según los documentos aportados por la UCI, existen cuatro posibilidades de que el clembuterol puede hallarse en el organismo humano, pero no demuestra que haya sido debido a una práctica de dopaje, mientras que el corredor tampoco demuestra la procedencia de dicha sustancia.

source: RTVE

Clearly not a doping offence. 😆

He has a banned substance in his system. What part of strict liability do people not understand. Contaminated beef FFS !

I do feel that people have been looking hard to find something though, given the amount found and the level of testing carried out by the lab that discovered it.

Agree with stuey..he has been given the minimum ban that the spanish auth’s thought they could get away with , and this was after being told by WADA etc that they will not tolerate him avoiding a ban.

Look at the sheer number of spanish cyclists that have been done in the last 3 years. Its ridiculous. The spanish auth’s are not bothered. The valverde case was laughable. Mosquera’s performance in Vuelta was a joke…. too good to be true.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garcia-sanctioned-proceedings-opened-for-sevilla

And for you Lance lovers….some bed time reading for you.

Michael Ashenden

interesting if nothing else.

Ok folks, all the people pointing the finger at Lance being a doper, prove it, show me, I mean hard evidence, not heresay, hard factual evidence that would prove he has taken drugs.

Seriously, if you have the evidence front up and prove it.

I am not defending any rider but some of you should just subscribe to Hello and Ok magazine and go onto their forums.

Mosquera’s performance in Vuelta was a joke…. too good to be true.

But Nibali’s was better even up La Bola del Mundo so clearly he was doping too, . 🙄

Taking responsibility is what’s happening now, which bit of the sentence fitting the crime do people not understand?

Which part of if there is no evidence don’t people understand?

Hopefully I won’t need to take an extra dose of ventolin or take an extra dose accidentally, I’d hate thought of having to explain that to some of you people…. Accidents can and do happen.

Tango Man – HIS URINE HAD RECOMBINANT EPO IN IT

Michael Ashenden

Nibali is class…..mosquera isnt. I expect top performances from riders who are constantly at the top of GC’s . Nibali is thought by many this year to have been the cyclist of the year. Finished 3rd in Giro with a weeks notice that he was riding (due to Pelizotti), won Vuelta , up there at Lombary and was super strong at worlds. Mosquera is shit in comparison.

Weren’t Sky with their super strict stance on doping after him in the off season. Absolutely no indication at all that Nibali is a doper.

Lance lovers wont read that link …

His doctor is a doper
His trainer is a doper
His teammates were dopers
The people he beat were dopers
His blood values indicated he doped
and when they analysed his piss it had dope in it.

but sure, innocent until proven guilty

and his performances suggest power outputs which point to oxygen uptakes in the realms of NeverWonderLand

What a waste of web space.
Why not ban everyone who artificially puts things that aren’t natural into their bodies?
I can eat Carbos in silly proportions but thats OK
Whatever the whole thing is waste of time. Its not the drug takers that are spoiling the sport, its the f***ing press.

big jump from a loaf of bread to pharmaceutical products not readily available to most doctors let alone athletes

it’s about trying to keep the playing field as level as possible