DezB – no, but i’ve pulled enough dead cyclists out from under vehicles and spent more hours than most cycling Londons busiest roads to know.

“Journeys by bike take a f@*k of a lot longer if you sit behind queues of stationary vehicles”

– me.

qwerty – but you’ve never ridden the same route as me (for the last 6 years) in to my work, so you would not know which parts are safe for me to undertake/overtake/wait/etc.
I stand by my first reply – you cannot know the answer without being in that spot at that time.

“cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles”
Nice try qwerty but if you stay in the middle of the lane all the time you will get more aggro and more people cutting you up. I’m all for cycle advocacy and making a stand but I’m more for staying alive. Get out there and take up space when you need to, roundabouts, pinch points, narrow roads etc, but dont get in others ways when you dont need to

And yes B is not always safe (left turn thing and whilst going fast) and can be risky due others idiocy but it’s not an instant “go straight to the cemetary do not pass go do not collect £200”.

Mainly C for me unless it is either a short queue or i have the trailer on the back which is to wide to try weaving in and out of cars in Which case it is A

I’ll carry on riding as I am thanks. I’ve not gone under a lorry after 30 years riding on the roads so I’m pretty sure I’m doing something right.

edit: and as DONK says, whatever path keeps me alive is the one I’ll stick with.

maybe people who ride under lorries when undercutting them aren’t watching what is going on. Certainly the people I’ve seen nearly getting killed doing that have been on a different planet.

I overtake and holdback (if lights sequence looks like its going to change soon)- if it does I give clear indication (and thanks) when filtering back in- planning ahead etc.

Im actually quite a good and competent commuter…

Then I go and ruin it all by throwing a paddy every so often like a complete dick

wind your neck in DONK – advocating undertaking is bad enough. claiming that the default position of a bike is in the gutter is why motorists treat you with the respect you deserve.

getting doored! given the cyclist is coming from behind and is undertaking – i struggle to see how it becomes the car passengers fault.

What about when there is a lead in lane to an ASL on the kerb side?

As repeatedly said it all depends on the layout of the road which is safest. I know many places where the inside is safer than the outside. Tha lead in lanes to the ASL and more space on the kerbside with bollards / traffic islands on the outside or right turn filter lanes

As for being doored – it is the responsiblity of the car driver / passenger to ensure it is safe before opening the door.

C, 9 times out of 10 I overtake.

Undertake in stationary traffic when I can see it isn’t going to start suddenly.

Wait around if we’re all waiting for a red light and there is no point hurrying.

It always makes me cringe when I see people undertake moving lorries, buses (or worst, London bendy buses on a left hand bend). There’s just nowhere to go if they decide to pull in.

Joe

Where are cycle lanes located? 90% of the time that’ll be on the left ergo default position.

If a car is sat in traffic the doors shouldn’t be opening so if i get doored in such a situation I’ll be venting my spleen at the irresponsible passenger. Some have tried to door me that way in the past.

Or did you mean a parked car opening a door? Well highway code says look out for car doors opening (which I do) but I can’t find anywhere that says drive so far away from parked cars so idiots can open doors without looking.

Also found this one

169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle

So don’t sit in the middle of the lane blocking traffic when you don’t need to as I suggested.

I thought what you said made complete sense D0NK. Couldn’t see what warranted a “Wind your neck in” response!

Hmm I was under the impression undertaking by cyclists was allowed but it seems not, so sorry I will no longer advocate it (I wasn’t aware that I was) but the way cycle lanes appear and dissappear and the nature of cars and cyclists playing leap frog as they are going along it may be the safer option for me in some cases. eg on a wide road on my comuute I’ll get 4 or 5 cars come passed me then slow down so I end up passing 1 or 2 of them, then they all speed up again more come passed, I’m not realy going to nip to the outside to overtake 1 or 2 cars then back in to let them all pass me again am I? thats lots of extra crossing of lanes of traffic for little gain. Yes I could try sitting in the lane with the traffic but thats going to be more stop/start riding for me and more pushy dicks trying to get passed me when things speed up. IMO a bad thing.

Still stand by my door comments and I never mentioned riding in the gutter.

all vehicles are required to travel on the left, pedestrians on the other hand (running or walking) should face oncoming traffic by default.

absolutely nowhere is there instruction that you may undertake.

ride at the door with your pedantic spleen, my money is on you getting most hurt.

illegal, dangerous – there is a sometimes a difference.

Do what you want, i wont cry for you.

Edited – apologies to D0NK who has now read “riding in traffic 101”

Soobalias, I am painfully aware who will come of worse but it still doesn’t change the fact who is in the wrong. I keep an eye out and fingers crossed I’ve not been caught out yet.

I bet a lot of people don’t know about the undertaking thing, cycle and bus lanes are geared up for undertaking and as I said they will often suddenly run out leaving you adrift in traffic.

Overtaking unfortunatley doesn’t give you immunity, I’ve been hit and had several near misses whilst doing just that, drivers see a stationary line of cars and don’t look for overtaking bikes or motor bikes and turn across you.

Lets be safe first and legal a (very) close second eh?

agree cycle lanes lead the general public to believe that all bikes should ride next to the kerb at all times.
ASL’s make my skin crawl.

yeah, safe and legal(ish)

its not illegal if you dont get caught tho’

I dunno, ASLs are good when used properly to help you get away from left turning vehicles and there’s a few on my commute I’m thankful for. But some (and plenty of other cycle lanes) lull riders into a false sense of security, thinking they are safe aslong as they are on green paint.

I’d only undertake on the inside if there was a cycle lane. I’d still be looking out for passenger doors to open or for drivers to pull over into the cycle lane. Any other time, outside only.

C, unless experience and conditions allow adaptation.
But on 8 May I did C and the car started its U turn as I was level with the wing mirror. Led to me flying over the bonnet, a broken helmet, buckled back wheel and a trip in the ambulance. Gravel rash and a crack in the radius at the elbow.
Waiting on the replacement helmet then I can test my nerve.

B – I’ve always assumed that – if I deem safe enough – I am permitted to filter on the inside of stationary or slow moving traffic. Given that I have a fear of being doored, I filter slowly. I never filter past buses or lorries.

C – Sometimes, where filtering is not possible, and I asses the risk in my favour, I’ll ride down the outside of a line of stationary or very slow moving traffic.

A – If neither are an option, then I’ll just stop in the line of traffic. But I position myself between the front and back of vehicles so that I don’t find myself jammed into a gutter.

D – never. I’d choose A any time over crossing two lanes of traffice to use something that itself wasn’t passable.

I don’t hold with riding in the centre of the lane at all times. Though I happily ride along at 20mph, that’s still slower than plenty of car drivers want to (and can) drive. Therefore, that’s also a dangerous option in some circumstances. Sure, if it comes to pinch points and roundabouts, the centre of the lane is mine and they can wait.

As TJ and others have made clear – it depends on the circumastances. They key is risk assessment – if I do this, what are my chances of being hurt/killed. I tend to find that keeps me alive most of the time….

I found riding in Italy recently that, although the rides I was on were narrow, cars would wait more than they do here. They would also overtake with less speed. Which is ironic, given how mental Italian drivers are with each other.

that keeps me alive most of the time….

🙂

what this thread proves is that if cyclists aren’t fully aware of how the highway code applies to cyclists then drivers certainly won’t know

let common sense prevail

The millions of car drivers caught speeding/jumping lights/drink driving/reckless driving every year shows us that a lot of drivers couldn’t give a stuff for the laws never mind the highway code.

I’m certainly not going to rely on on that to keep me safe.

I’m going to die next time I go out riding aren’t I?

combination of all 4?

I’ll happily weave in and out of trafic, whichever route gets me home with the best trade off between safety and speed (if you wanted to be “safe” you’d stay at home and not ride bikes)